Job Manifesto discussion RE: Summoner

[Zemarin]

By implementing different stats for each avatar, we are afraid certain avatars will be selected disproportionately frequently and the variance of avatars will be limited. There is a possibility of being able to alter the stats of avatars by equipping gear, but basically we would like avatars to be chosen based on their elements.

IF this isn't official enough mala i dunno what is hun... if your looking for devs to say "we are never updating your spirits" I doubt you will see it, but at the same time I don't see them saying much about updating them; it could be assumed that they WON'T. By a rule of the thumb SE HAS NEVER EVER EVER EVER EVER in the pass EVER touched summons pets, so i dunno where you got the idea that they would.
I don't think dev's are dumb either its been months since spirits have NOT been casting the appropriate spells. They even went out their way to replace old elemental type mobs with newer ones in abyssea that cast newer spells, probably so summoners won't complain that an Earth elemental is using Stone V (even tho the ones in Ru aun are high enough to use it i have never seen em do it). I'm pretty sure its very intentional

[Razushu]

The point is still that I want to hear the official statement on this, and not just the opinions of random people. And that is pretty much it. Get confirmation that SE is trying to phase out spirits from the game.

I'm not expecting them to do anything about spirits, unless they first inform us, since I've asked about it.

They're not trying to phase them out, they just never planned them to be a big part of high level Summoning. Everytime SE mentions SMN it's Avatars they talk about not spirits. That in itself is a fair indication of what they're planning with spirits. At the very least they're seen as fine as they are for the forseeable future, you shouldn't really need an official "stfu about spirits" to see that.

[Soundwave]

They're not trying to phase them out, they just never planned them to be a big part of high level Summoning. Everytime SE mentions SMN it's Avatars they talk about not spirits. That in itself is a fair indication of what they're planning with spirits. At the very least they're seen as fine as they are for the forseeable future, you shouldn't really need an official "stfu about spirits" to see that.

I agree, I don't know what SE had originally intended for the use of spirits until E-Siphion came along.

Back on track...

There is a possibility of being able to alter the stats of avatars by equipping gear, but basically we would like avatars to be chosen based on their elements.

I think its been suggested that each avatar or selected ones needs a new BP's similar to Flaming Crush but a bit more potent for level 99.

Example 1...

Ifirit Level 99 BP:Rage
Volcanic Decimation (Two fold attack)
*First attack will deliver the physical attack
*Second attack will deliver a fire elemental attack (Similar to level 75 pacts.)

Example 2...

Ifirit Level 99 BP:Rage
Volcanic Decimation (Two fold attack)
*First attack will deliver the physical attack
*Second attack will deliver a fire elemental attack
**On the Second attack have it based off the avatars TP

[Zemarin]

I just wish summons made light, That's all I care about.. everything else can go to hell.. Blood pact words were never THAT useful, i lvled summoner when there was no split BP and they were all on one list. That besides atma was summoners biggest updates, everything after that has done much of nothing to add to Summoner ... I had a similar Idea to urs with the melee Blood pacts that did magic damage as well... it would be nice

but on another note flaming crush suks so They'd definately put some power behind it.

[Soundwave]

I just wish summons made light, That's all I care about.. everything else can go to hell.. Blood pact words were never THAT useful, i lvled summoner when there was no split BP and they were all on one list. That besides atma was summoners biggest updates, everything after that has done much of nothing to add to Summoner ... I had a similar Idea to urs with the melee Blood pacts that did magic damage as well... it would be nice

but on another note flaming crush suks so They'd definately put some power behind it.

Ya, If they do make more powerful pacts then I see the 70 pacts going from like Dalmatica to Yingyang robe status =p Or something along those lines.

[Malamasala]

They're not trying to phase them out, they just never planned them to be a big part of high level Summoning. Everytime SE mentions SMN it's Avatars they talk about not spirits. That in itself is a fair indication of what they're planning with spirits. At the very least they're seen as fine as they are for the forseeable future, you shouldn't really need an official "stfu about spirits" to see that.

The only thing it says is that they are working on avatars. It doesn't say anything about if they forgot about spirits. You know, because the definition of forgetting something is to not talk about it.

In my eyes Elemental Siphon was added to help you keep spirits out longer, to promote more spirit usage, but it backfired. You use it as an argument for spirits now having a purpose and need no further work, while I read it as someone once again failed at getting an update right. It is all a matter of how you want to look at it. And that is why I need official word on the subject. It can be interpreted any way you like, and it makes it uncertain.

And I'm still wondering why it takes Camate so long to just ask the question and get a simple "yes/no" answer. I guess he values those 5 seconds of Developer time that it would steal to ask.

[Razushu]

The only thing it says is that they are working on avatars. It doesn't say anything about if they forgot about spirits. You know, because the definition of forgetting something is to not talk about it.

In my eyes Elemental Siphon was added to help you keep spirits out longer, to promote more spirit usage, but it backfired. You use it as an argument for spirits now having a purpose and need no further work, while I read it as someone once again failed at getting an update right. It is all a matter of how you want to look at it. And that is why I need official word on the subject. It can be interpreted any way you like, and it makes it uncertain.

And I'm still wondering why it takes Camate so long to just ask the question and get a simple "yes/no" answer. I guess he values those 5 seconds of Developer time that it would steal to ask.

Seeing as they only ever mention Avatars, it's fairly safe to assume that spirtits aren't on the fix list for thhe forseeable future. They don't need to forget about something not to talk about, they just need to have no intention of dealing with them.

Elemental Siphon makes much more sense, as just an ability that helps us regain lost MP(seeing as we are the most MP intensive job outthere), SE wanted to give us an ability to regulate our MP use, but one we couldn't spam in battle. Putting them on the spirits was the trade off for that ability, you get a large chunk of MP back every 5 minutes, but the catch is you need to have a spirit out to get it. Judging by the way the ability works it's more likely that the spirits are the condition of it rather than the reason for it. Your version(no offense) makes little sense, because it implies they wanted spirits>Avatars, which hasn't really been seen anywhere else in the history of SMN adjustments.

I think the reps pick the questions they ask carefully because they have a better view of what the devs are planning and as such can already tell whats the devs will and won't respond to.

[Korpg]

The only thing it says is that they are working on avatars. It doesn't say anything about if they forgot about spirits. You know, because the definition of forgetting something is to not talk about it.

Your definition perhaps, but when things are working as intended, and do not need any additional increase in work, maybe they haven't forgotten, but perhaps they are finished with spirits in general. They may add one or two things to enhance the use of spirits, which I highly doubt, but they will never make spirits equal to or exceeding avatars, much less players in general.

In my eyes Elemental Siphon was added to help you keep spirits out longer, to promote more spirit usage, but it backfired. You use it as an argument for spirits now having a purpose and need no further work, while I read it as someone once again failed at getting an update right. It is all a matter of how you want to look at it. And that is why I need official word on the subject. It can be interpreted any way you like, and it makes it uncertain.

I think Razushu's version is more accurate. A quick way to recover MP, but the cost is associated with the lost of an avatar for about 10 seconds. If they really wanted Elemental Siphon to enhance spirits, wouldn't the amount of MP recovered be associated with the amount of time the spirit is out? Say, if you need a quick MP fix, you can use Elemental Siphon for ~200 MP but if you have the spirit out for 5 minutes, you can recover the max current MP (~500) you can recover. Then your version of events may hold true.

And I'm still wondering why it takes Camate so long to just ask the question and get a simple "yes/no" answer. I guess he values those 5 seconds of Developer time that it would steal to ask.

May it is because the answer is so obvious to everyone but you to even ask the question. Your question sounds exactly like the following question: What is the number to 911?

[Malamasala]

I think the reps pick the questions they ask carefully because they have a better view of what the devs are planning and as such can already tell whats the devs will and won't respond to.

I don't know what kind of people they employ over there, but at my work I get happy each time someone drops by to ask a question that I'm able to answer and feel that I helped someone.

Spirits also happen to be a really hot topic. The majority of Summoners want to hear what will happen to spirits. The only ones saying "no thanks" are the people who fear that asking for spirits will somehow harm their chances at getting exactly what they want. Which is silly... do you see me sitting here complaining about all your questions "stealing my spirit question slot"?

(I only say that about the "How do I beat AV?" questions asked at festivals year after year)

[Korpg]

Spirits also happen to be a really hot topic.

No it isn't. The only reason why Spirits keep getting brought up is because you keep bringing it up. You as in a singularity.

The majority of Summoners want to hear what will happen to spirits.

No they don't. Nobody but you has brought up spirits as a whole, and the people who expand on your ideas are doing that to shut you up. You do not speak for the majority of the playerbase, and most certainly not for the majority of playerbase who levels SMNs.

The only ones saying "no thanks" are the people who fear that asking for spirits will somehow harm their chances at getting exactly what they want.

You even don't listen to the people who oppose you in this limited viewpoint of yours. People have said "no thanks" to spirit updates for a variety of reasons (spirits are working as intended, there are more important things to fix on a SMN, spirits are not supposed to meet or exceed the power of avatars, etc).

Which is silly... do you see me sitting here complaining about all your questions "stealing my spirit question slot"?

There, you have admitted that you are the only person who even cares about spirits. If the above quotes were true as you stated, the bolded word would have been "our" instead of "my."

Also, the devs have specifically stated that the focus for SMNs will be avatars and not spirits.

How about unblacklisting people who don't share your viewpoint to get a real grasp on what people really want.