MNK/WAR tank I'm confused Please Assist

[Gokku]

back on topic for OP , tanking /war works fine in almost all the situations you will encounter. the general *and this is very simplistic* idea of it is to hit the mob harder then its hitting you and to kill it before it kills you with no regard to the amount of damage your taking. this is easily achieved inside abysses by any half competent whm. there is also the addition of /war allowing you to tank in abyssea and providing monk with, i believe only 1, additional club ws to proc with. this does come @ a loss of the chance to proc grello with ninja tools if your fighting a mob were grello is needed. but then you can just yell at the thf and blame it on them.

#1 reason i sub war, inventory space and not carrying around elemental NI tools.

[SpankWustler]

but then you can just yell at the thf and blame it on them.

You're selling this strategy short. It actually works on anything related to drops.

To say what fifty people have already said, but in a less intelligent and less informative fashion:

Damage taken is irrelevant in most of Abyssea, assuming a White Mage who has a functional brain is present. If the White Mage present has 80/20 coarsely ground beef in the shape of a brain, you may run into issues. Damage taken might become an issue against stuff that hits really, really hard and rips Counterstance off like Rani or Raja. Even then, it depends on your level of support.

Don't worry about enmity loss due to being hit, your enmity gain from punching the monster in it's big, stupid face will outweigh that.

Outside of Abyssea, it depends on the monster and your level of support. Warrior sub works fine for lots of stuff, but there's also lots of stuff that will murder you and everyone you have ever cared about.

The goal of this style is to kill the monster faster, because you've killed the dumb thing fifty times already and you'll have to kill it fifty more before you're done.

[MarkovChain]

mnk/war = pussy mobs, DPS
mnk/nin everything that matters (nothing right now, well voidwatch but it's pure fail)

Also I would just like to point out that 99% of the current content is done turning your back or holding damage in some form (gimp weapon, not using ws etc) "until it procs" so /war is essentially useless and only good for the noob bandwagon that subs war because they can. Give me a reason as to why /war is better than /nin in voidwatch so I can have a good laugh. I swear /sam+footwork would be better for tp moves spam. In dynamis /war is better for JA procs obviously (and counterstance is dumb). Yeah it's sad but that's what the game has become. Proc or bust. DPS doesn't matter on anything.

[Monchat]

Going to repeat:

-nobody cares about damage migration in abyssea, generally: you sub war. You don't care about damage taken, you dont care about PDT nor MDT generally unless the mob one shot you or close. I cared before getting the good refresh/DD atmas, thats it. There are mobs that can one shot you with TP moves but its generally covered with fanatics drinks/ fools drinks ( emperador de altepa when low manning for example). For a mob liek grauberg chariot there are easy tricks to avoid 30k discoids ( force discoid every 10% or so for example).

I mean, look at Dragua or indrik for example. Most of dragua damage come from spells and WS ( => counterstance almost useless, will be dispelled anyway), with a 50% cure potency whm with AF3+2 legs and max refresh atma ( 20/tic + gear) you can just mindlessly DD it w/o trying to switch to MDB ( well just shellra V, dont think its even needed tbh) nor PDT, because your whm will instantly cap your HP for zero hate and never run out of MP. For indrik, this guy is doing so much damage but you whm will still keep you at max HP fine ( you have convert and elixirs just in case). You have no real reason to /NIN on it because it is all the more dangerous that you dont kill fast. And if you take to long to blue proc it, You finish it with a fanatics drink, problem solved.

-If I am /NIN in abyssea it is for yellow procs. /NIN also gives you cyclone btw.

-counterstance: at best ~75% damage reduction on melee hits for MNK/WAR. zero reduction from ws, magic, range.

-counterstance for mnk/nin: ( and PC) 100% reduction on melee hits, 100% reduction on single target magic, and absorb 3 hits for physical WS.

I guess all depends what you call "tanking". If holding the focus of a mob, /war for almost eveything because whms have zero enimity-zeroMP-1k-chain spell cure Vs. you are not using defender etc, just DD abilities, DD tamas. Imean you dotn tank in "tanking atma", idk if they even exist..

If tanking migration means damage migration + Mob's focus, like it has always been, /nin for the above reasons.

Btw. /war advantage over /NIN is not "massive" like some of you think, in term of damage: counterstance is neglectible, at best 5%. Why? because you will attack 10 time while the mob attacks once thanks to all the multi hits atma/gear. Additionally, DA+10% + beserk is only +25% damage at best ( probably less due to atmas and cruor buffs). In other words /NIN is doing 20% less dmg than /war only. And the moment the /war has to use PDT MDT frequently, you see the /NIN will win in kill speed AND dmg reduction, as you use defensive gear less often as /NIN.

Those facts are not even new. I mean people who brought BRD and COR in salvage back in the day knew you can bring all your MNK with /WAR and your 2handers full timeing hasso, and be fine, while if you had less MP support, /NIN or hasso pretty much needed.

[Ladycandygem]

-counterstance for mnk/nin: ( and PC) 100% reduction on melee hits, 100% reduction on single target magic, and absorb 3 hits for physical WS.

100% reduction if shadows are up. Fast attacking mobs or ones that can strip shadows would mean they are not up 100% of the time.

Btw. /war advantage over /NIN is not "massive" like some of you think, in term of damage: counterstance is neglectible, at best 5%. Why? because you will attack 10 time while the mob attacks once thanks to all the multi hits atma/gear. Additionally, DA+10% + beserk is only +25% damage at best ( probably less due to atmas and cruor buffs). In other words /NIN is doing 20% less dmg than /war only. And the moment the /war has to use PDT MDT frequently, you see the /NIN will win in kill speed AND dmg reduction, as you use defensive gear less often as /NIN.

I think you underestimate the difference between /war and /nin for dealing damage.

You neglect the fact that /nin spends time casting shadows. With "all the multi hits", using your estimate, you would be losing around 10 attacks per cast.

And if someone has "atmas and cruor buffs" they are in Abyssea, so probably don't need to worry about PDT or MDT sets, as the whm will just cure them.

There is also Aggressor, which will increase damage and help counter for events where accuracy is not capped.


As usual you should use common sense. Assess the situation and use the appropriate sub job.

[MarkovChain]

Agressor should never be used, ever. lol counter

[Monchat]

why are you comparing a mnk/nin full timing shadows and a mnk/war going all out? I have no idea.

Im saying a mnk/nin going all out vs mnk/war going all out, /NIN loses 20% damage. You are saying that MNK/NIN full timing shadows versus MNK/WAR going all out, loses much mor than 20%? of course, everyone noticed.

If you are taking shadow cast time into account, take the delay, attack, multihit etc penalty from swithcing to defensive gear. ALso just because you are /NIN doesnt mean you HAVE TO keep shadows up. If the /WAR can take hits the /NIN can just cast NI and only that. With marches+haste, 3 hits blocked guarranted every 22 sec and the other hits, if any, absorbed with 400 def is already better than counterstance .

This argument is pointless really, there are situatin for each SJ.

[brayen]

Agressor should never be used, ever. lol counter

Thats either a troll or a terrible mnk

[MarkovChain]

Is this the new rdm melee thread ?

[Ruvion]

Gonna break it down

mnk/war is for damage dealing, mnk/nin is for tanking. * this is true if you /nin to dd your doing it wrong in or outside abyssea*

If someone tells you he is tanking as mnk/war he is probably just subbing war for damage and doing it in abyssea, because he doesnt care about the damage he takes ( abyssea, cure V , cure VI, infinite MP etc). * Also true 99% of whms do not have the 7 a tick auto refresh gear or even 5+, most are full timing af3+2 IF that. meaning they will run out of mp in any situation that's not old content outside of abyssea.

Counterstance doesnt block WS, range attacks and magic. 100% correct

and to clear it up if you tanking /war your not "tanking" your holding hate through superior dps , you'd take a hellva lot less dmg and counter just as much /nin "tanking" the same mob but your kill speed/dmg would be alot less. thats like saying war/sam is for dding not tanking , its both because /sam your dps is so high you are tank by default.

As a career mnk I guess I'll add my 2 cents. /nin and /war are situational. You see alot of /war because there are still noobs out there that think HP tanking is the way to go. While yes, the extra 1k hp is nice, it does nothing to your stats and help you hold hate, just makes you more of an mp sponge for the whm. You also see alot for blue procs. /war gives mnk everything but hexa strike so if you're with a group going for drops, /nin makes no sense.

I personally enjoy /war due to the extra dmg and maybe an extra swing or two. Having brutal, epona's, atheling and apoc/vv atmas I swing like a mad man regardless of /nin or /war. I want to mention this; counterstance may not block ws but guard does, or it may drastically reduce the dmg and a Mnk with capped guard is just so much fun to watch. Guard, counter, guard, counter.^^ can't do that /nin as effectively.

To sum it up, you really just need to be smart. If you're gonna duo something in abyssea, go /nin to save the whm's mp a bit and keep you alive. However, do your homework. If you're going to be fighting something that does nothing but aga, then /nin is useless and you might as well go /war. Thats what I do and end up killing the mob more effectively/efficiently than what I would have trying to keep my shadows up. "oh look, back to back agas, I hate you dragua"