FINAL FANTASY XI Job Adjustments Manifesto: Paladin

[DebbieGibson]

Those mobs would likely kill Paladin as quickly, or quicker, than most DD jobs. Especially MNK, NIN and SAM. Paladin's defensive tools are arguably worse than many DD jobs' (Counterstance, Third Eye, Utsusemi), barring Ochain. If Ochain is the solution to Paladin's uselessness, I'd best be getting one for free, or the trials for it had best become much easier/less time consuming (the Colorless Souls are obnoxious, regardless of how you go about it). Requiring something the game regards as an ultimate weapon just to reach the baseline for usability is not a solution. Paladin's survivability should be buffed, with or without Ochain/Aegis.

:disgusted: (at your laziness)

[Greatguardian]

Considering Paladin's utility is and always will be prime on the hardest content in the game, everyone should have an Ultimate-class weapon or shield on it anyways. Paladin will never, ever be a casual content job. Sorry.

Edit: That said, Empyreans are stupid easy. Souls are annoying, and the shield/harp Abyssea trials are way worse than weapon Abyssea trials (I'd think because they bypass the crappy NM/VNM portions), but even those are being buffed next update. I dare say you can get over it if you actually want to play the job well.

[Ziyyigo-Tipyigo]

That said, Empyreans are stupid easy.

Then go get me one. Rorrick would like one too by the sound of it, so you'd best get started on the "stupid easy" ahead of you.

[Greatguardian]

Then go get me one. Rorrick would like one too by the sound of it, so you'd best get started on the "stupid easy" ahead of you.

Sorry, I have no sympathy for lazy. If I gave half a crap about you, I could definitely go get you one. But, alas, I don't. So sad.

We're not talking about Relic Weapons here. Empyreans take a couple of days of grinding, even with a casual pace and frequent breaks. If you solo them or take them super slow, at most they take a couple weeks or maybe a month. If you're unwilling to put in that modicum of effort, then you would likely not function well in any moderately difficult endgame anyways.

[Ziyyigo-Tipyigo]

If I gave half a crap about you, I could definitely go get you one.

If you have to actually care, then it's not as easy as you claim. You're unwilling to back up your words.

Empyreans take a couple of days of grinding,

But it's easy, so you should have no problem doing it for me.

Putting aside the question of the difficulty of getting an Ochain...

It's not fun!

"Hardest content in the game" to me reads as "least fun content in the game." I've never enjoyed endgame, even before the level cap bumps and Abyssea. Personally, it strikes me as nothing but grinding in pursuit of nothing more than some numbers in a database entry, not far removed from FarmVille. Heck, I'd personally be more interested in an Aegis than an Ochain if for no other reason than becuase there's cutscenes and a storyline behind it. It strikes me as a shining example of everything that is wrong with MMO's. I'd sooner go through ACP/AMK/ASA again.

I recognize that that's my opinion and other people do enjoy such things. You don't need my approval to go and enjoy yourself a nice session of Microsoft Excel Online. There are other things in the game that I do find enjoyable and you and I need never interact.

But I find the following totally unacceptable:

1. My preferred job is only useful in content that I hate. I'm not saying "I'm a thief but I don't want to pull!" or "I'm a beastmaster but I don't want to use pets!" but I am saying "I have absolutely no desire to fight those particular monsters, not once and certainly not dozens of times." Again, having certain numbers show up in your parser may make it all worthwhile to you, but that is not true of me.
2. My preferred job is only useful with gear that is only obtainable through content that I hate. I'd say the Maat fight is about my limit for broken, cheating, exacting content I am willing to put up with in order to get to do things I'd rather be doing (that is, beyond the crap I have to do to get the $12.95/mo to begin with). And I only had to win once. And I didn't have to /shout for help, deal with AoE or enstun spam, deal with ninja lotters or other lot drama, or beat him a hundred times over.

You can consider me lazy if you want, but that doesn't matter as we will never be doing the same content together as we have completely different tastes. However, the mechanics that you enjoy, the ones that say "PLD must be 1337!" affect everything in the game, both the content you want to do and the content I want to do. And so long as it's skewed entirely towards (what I consider to be) endgame BS, then the whole thing is utterly broken.

[DebbieGibson]

utterly broken.

Solution:
A) Get hired by SE(or buy SE).
B) Become lead dev of FFXI.
C) Make all mobs in the game hit like a truck and spam TP moves so that only pld can tank them.

Otherwise, quit, or play another job. I'm sorry that SE didn't design the game the way you would like.

[Ashael]

We're not talking about Relic Weapons here. Empyreans take a couple of days of grinding, even with a casual pace and frequent breaks. If you solo them or take them super slow, at most they take a couple weeks or maybe a month. If you're unwilling to put in that modicum of effort, then you would likely not function well in any moderately difficult endgame anyways.

I agree with these statements pertaining to Empyrean Weapons, not Shield or Harp. I've been working a lot, and Souls are annoying to farm. I'm about 1/4 the way through souls, and it's not hard to do alone, it's just a pain in the ass to find a time where I'm not gonna be competing for a 15 min repop to progress my stone to a T3 when there's not a 20 people all going for the T2 in all zones.
I don't mind slow grinding, I just don't like it that I can't make slow steady progress because the monsters are simply not available in the couple hours of play time I get on work days.

Back on topic, PLDs aren't the super answer on hard mobs. Aegis PLDs are, but even they can be relegated to useful but not necessary if the mob is hate resetting or Endooming or casting Death.
PLD really needs some buffs to allow them to be functional in some method in alliances at least, if not in parties. Or give us the soloability of other useless jobs so I can at least pretend I'm not wasting my time on PLD when I could be killing faster and safer on another job.
I love PLD, first job. It just needs some TLC. Use the guys who are coming up with the ideas for SAM, BLM and maybe RNG if that new stance/JA actually is effective. Have them help the PLD guys fix the job.

[Greatguardian]

Which zones are you trying? At the moment, there's a functionally retarded debate raging on BG about which zone T3 actually drops more souls, but it's honestly fairly likely that they all have similar drop rates; Ogopoggo is just a lot easier to kill. If competition is the main nuisance, I'd give Diabolos or Ifrit a try and see how those work out for you. Most of the people camping those T2s are only after seals anyways, so it's fairly easy to broker deals with them and just give seals away. I've even gotten a few free T3 pops from seal groups this way.

If people are really camping every zone for T3 pops already, then that really sucks and I can sympathize for you. There's not much that can be done about that. At least they're throwing us a pseudo-bone and increasing the Abyssite upgrade rates next update.

[Greatguardian]

If you have to actually care, then it's not as easy as you claim. You're unwilling to back up your words.

If I said that getting a decent headset for Ventrillo would only cost $20, would you then tell me to give you $20 or stfu? I should certainly hope not. Just because I don't think something is remotely difficult, doesn't mean that it's free, nor does it mean that I'm willing to expend even a modicum of my time or energy on some jackass from the interwebs.

But it's easy, so you should have no problem doing it for me.

Would I have a "problem" doing it? Would it be difficult? No. Do I particularly want to, at all? No. Ochains are easy compared to nearly all previous Endgame content, and they're practically given away for the massive boost they offer, but they are not free, and they are not instant. If you want the best gear in the game to pop up in the armory crate next to Joachim, go suggest that to the Devs and leave the rest of us alone.

Putting aside the question of the difficulty of getting an Ochain...

It's not fun! snip

If you don't want to do any legitimate endgame content, that's fine. But don't expect your Paladin to be useful on those oh so difficult rank missions and AF quests. Anything that you seem to be remotely interested in, a DD will always be able to handle better than a Paladin. Nothing will ever fix this. But hey, considering you don't seem to want to put forth any effort whatsoever into bettering yourself, and the content you want to play is so far behind everyone else, your Paladin may end up being useful when there aren't any half-competent DDs around to tank things.

[Ziyyigo-Tipyigo]

If I said that getting a decent headset for Ventrillo

Ventrillo isn't required to play the game. Like I said, there's more to life in FFXI than endgame.

If something is going to be required, then it should be easily attainable, to the point that you would have no real issue doing it for a complete stranger. Legwork should only be required for vanity gear and the like.

Just because I don't think something is remotely difficult, doesn't mean that it's free

This goes back to the recent discussion on getting relics in Dynamis: getting an Ochain is easy only if your time and effort is worthless.

At best, all you can say is that the time and effort of getting an Ochain is worth less to you than the Ochain itself, i. e. on a relative scale. You only say that because both the bragging rights and the ability to do Voidwatch, etc. are worth something to you. But if I'm the one that ends up with the Ochain, so that those incentives are taken away from you, suddenly the time and effort to get one is worth something to you.

they are not free, and they are not instant.

And yet they're still mandatory. That's the problem.

If you want the best gear in the game to pop up in the armory crate next to Joachim

I have no desire for the best gear in the game. I want to not need it.

So there's a contest between the Aegis and the Ochain over which is the best shield. What shield is in third place? Kaiser? Argos? Maybe Dagda's?

Does anybody even care about third place? Does it matter? Is it useful? Size 4 shields have always been little more than a fashion accessory (about as useful on PLD as they are on DRK), but now it seems even size 3 has fallen by the wayside as well. It's either relic, empyrean, or "level another job, n00b!"

And then there's the catch-22 of needing an Ochain for PLD to be useful in the process of getting an Ochain to begin with.

If you don't want to do any legitimate endgame content,

As opposed to illegitimate? Yours is the only proper way to enjoy the game?

Anything that you seem to be remotely interested in, a DD will always be able to handle better than a Paladin.

AND THAT'S THE FREAKING PROBLEM, GENIUS!

(Maybe I should bump up the font size on that one...)