Easier Payment Options (08/23/2011)

[Alhanelem]

If you think SE is perfect about banning people than lol

I don't. But they are a lot more accurate about it than most people imply. And usually, when they screw up, they own up to it, like they did when they mistakenly cancelled a bunch of accounts for nonpayment when they actually did pay.

It was completely unnecessary to double post, by the way.

Why wouldn't I agree with you about people being careful? If you have any reason to think you might not be playing the game more than a month down the line, you shouldn't put down the money for more than one month.

[Romanova]

there were people during the gardening ban that took up to two months to get their accounts back. Some said, "f it" after the first month and just didn't bother.

I don't think those people should be punished by losing out on money as well (not that those did, but I'm referring to those in the future).

I'm putting it as a warning to people. If they want to pay for 4 months ahead, go for it. I'm just putting this out there so they are aware that if something like the gardening bans happen again, they may want to quit after it and then lose out on that extra money.

[Vivik]

I don't. But they are a lot more accurate about it than most people imply. And usually, when they screw up, they own up to it, like they did when they mistakenly cancelled a bunch of accounts for nonpayment when they actually did pay.

It was completely unnecessary to double post, by the way.

Why wouldn't I agree with you about people being careful? If you have any reason to think you might not be playing the game more than a month down the line, you shouldn't put down the money for more than one month.

How the hell do you know how many people deserved to be banned? Do you work for SE? Because you don't know any of them "Most deserved it"? Unless you can come up with some proof somewhere you're talking out of your ass.

I personally know people who got banned for nothing, I know people that got banned for dumb shit too. There was a lot more that got banned for nothing...

[Vivik]

How the hell do you know how many didn't?

Again, unless SE is running a charity, they don't just ban people for the hell of it, because they like their money.

I know of no one, even reading through the BG forums and other community sites around the time it happened, that had no part whatsoever in an alliance that broke up to dupe drops. In any case where it only happened once and might have been an accident, they either did nothing or only gave a suspension. If you were part of more than one case of it happening, you were more than likely banned for it.

Then again, maybe my definition of "nothing" and your definition of "nothing" differ. My definition would be "any action that violates the terms of service or code of conduct posted on SE's website." Your definition seems like (this is just my perception "anything except really small violations that may not have been intentional." Violations are violations. It's not "nothing" if they broke the rules, even unintentionally. I don't agree that people should be banned for accidents or mistakes, but it's still not "nothing."

Anyway, by all means, tell me about the "nothing" the people you know got banned for. Can you say with 100% certainty that (in the case of salvage bans) that none of these people you know had any involvement whatsoever with any group/salvage run that, whether they did it intentionally or unintenntionally, broke their alliance under the conditions that would cause items to be duped? Were you watching their computer screens? Do you know for sure they really did "nothing?"

When did I say anything about salvage bans? I was talking about my 3 gardener friends who got banned for npcing thier shit. Are you that slow that you have to make shit up to try and be right?

[Alhanelem]

No, no, they did. :x

I have to say, that was kind of funny.

[Byrth]

Stories of the STF:
* I know plenty of people banned for the Gardening STF bans.
* I know plenty of people who were and were not banned for the Salvage fiasco.
* I knew a guy who got his mule banned because he server-hopped it with 100mil to buy currency for his Claustrum. Main account un-touched, mule account banned.
* I knew one guy who gamed the chocobo betting system so that he'd have 100% betting accuracy. Instead of releasing it to the community and telling people that it could be done / how to do it (which would have resulted in major inflation), he wrote up a report, sent it to SE, and left all his winnings on the mule. His reward? They deleted his mule, gave him an official warning, and told him never to go into the chocobo circuit again. They have introduced a random component to the races since then.

No one expects them to be perfect, but the appeal system is non-existent unless you know someone and SE's justice is applied so unevenly that it's hard to feel that keeping within the "spirit of the TOS" is really going to protect your account. I was scared as crap when I server-hopped ~90mil last month to buy Alexandrite. That could have been the end of my account.

[Alhanelem]

When did I say anything about salvage bans? I was talking about my 3 gardener friends who got banned for npcing thier shit. Are you that slow that you have to make shit up to try and be right?

I'm talking about all bans. Salvage bans are just the easiest to talk about, since they have been disputed far more loudly than these gardening bans. Which the gardening bans are over a much less serious issue (activity with RMT-like behavior). People who appealed these bans got them undone. Actual RMT didn't waste their time. Now, it does still suck, but any legitimate player could have challenged those bans. I will agree that their trigger finger was more loose at that time. But that doesn't mean no one deserved their ban. I'm sure a lot of RMT were killed for every innocent person that was affected.

No one expects them to be perfect, but the appeal system is non-existent

It's convoluted, yes, but I wouldn't go so far as to say nonexistent. People have gotten bans reversed, though it took more effort than it should have.

I was scared as crap when I server-hopped ~90mil last month to buy Alexandrite.

I don't think anyone should be server hopping purely for economic gain. You should only be changing servers if you don't like your current one and want to move to a different one. The whole reason there's a time restriction on it is because they don't want you to go back and forth. Apparently, 3 months wasn't long enough to prevent that.

[Romanova]

I like how we keep talking about the gardening bans and all Alh can do is keeping mention the salvage bans even though we stated several times that isn't the same thing.

You do know they aren't the same right Alh?


No one is saying they banned innocent people during the duping. The gardeners had nothing to do with duping or salvage.

You are the only one talking about the salvage bans in an attempt to what? Argue with yourself?

[Vivik]

I'm talking about all bans. Salvage bans are just the easiest to talk about, since they have been disputed far more loudly than these gardening bans. Which the gardening bans are over a much less serious issue (activity with RMT-like behavior). People who appealed these bans got them undone. Actual RMT didn't waste their time. Now, it does still suck, but any legitimate player could have challenged those bans. I will agree that their trigger finger was more loose at that time. But that doesn't mean no one deserved their ban. I'm sure a lot of RMT were killed for every innocent person that was affected.

But you're the only one talking about salvage bans. Nobody said anything about those people not deserving it. You just chose to ignore what everyone else is saying it seems.

[Tacotaru]

The only reason you choose Salvage bans as an easier situation to talk about because it's impossible to dispute that a majority of those players are cheating, thus supporting your argument that SE is majority right. Of course if you leave situations that weren't as sudden as however many thousands of accounts banned at once, but still routinely affecting the population of the game in a steady stream as opposed to all at once, then of course it doesn't sound like they have an off track record with banning at all.