Rudra's Storm mods

[Karbuncle]

I wouldn't rule out Jishnu's Radiance from top 3, thats third for sure... Blade: Hi is likely 4th behind Jishnu.

Anyway, I think Rudra's Storm suffers from what I like to call "SATA Weakness". the WS itself is purposefully weaker because we have SATA, so most/all WS's we get have laughably low fTP mods, even though Dagger is the weakest weapon in the game, and in theory should have WSs with the highest fTP mods, this is again, because of SA and TA.

Rudra's though can be pretty good unstacked, but not at 100% TP, 300% though, it'd probably do semi-decent unstacked. However, i think we deserve to keep our Aftermath up without sacrificing DMG. (so do all DD, just as WAR and MNK get to now)

I mean, Ideally you can SA or TA it, but lets face reality, how often can you do things "Ideally"? Its very rare for me these days that i can easily land a SA, TA is no problem, but its also much weaker, for one Favoring AGI for TA DMG over DEX (Rudra's mod) leads to lesser damage (by a very noticeable extent) when compared to SA just stacking the DEX.

Sacrifices i don't think we should have to make. (nor any DD job with their WS's)

Basically, I believe you can make a WS powerful unstacked and still make it not over-powered Stacked. Look at Dancing Edge and Evisceration, Both decently powerful Weaponskills Stacked and Unstacked, Is it too hard/too much to ask Rudra's at least beat Evisc/DE @ 100%TP?

As far as Cloudsplitter, Camlanns, and Quietus go, I'm willing to suspect those are on the list of WS planned for updates, and i think those also should be looked into being more powerful, i agree.

ANYWAY, As far as my Solution to it? I think Rudra's should be reworked as follows:

"Description: Deals Heavy damage and weighs target down. Chance of Critical hit Varies with TP
Modifiers: 60% DEX
fTP: 5.0"
(While we're at it, do this for Mercy Stroke too, keep Mercy Stroke STR mod though)

Rudra's, at 300% TP, is 5.25fTP, I think making it a flat base of 5.0 and allowing it to crit will make it superior to Evisc/DE Unstacked, but at the same time, its not going to break the WS, and its not any stronger than a 300% TP Rudras is right now. It creates a powerful unstacked WS, while keeping it no more powerful than it is right now, thus not breaking it.

This is my opinion. THF is a very limited job, small boosts like this will at least help it make some headway into being acceptable, if only a little.

[Alhanelem]

When Abysea starts to play second fiddle to something else, critical weapon skills will stop being number one (or at least, some of them).

[Karbuncle]

When Abysea starts to play second fiddle to something else, critical weapon skills will stop being number one (or at least, some of them).

I don't believe this is true.

Even now, outside Abyssea, Evisceration poos on DE unless you can't gear for crap... Can't think of any other WS's of Crit not crit that come close to that comparison. With the access to Crit DMG+ and Crit-rate+ Gear we have no, its a clear victory. in averages and peaks.

Yes, Critical hits are better inside Abyssea, But outside they're just as strong in comparison to other things outside abyssea. Its the reason King's justice takes backseat to Raging Rush.

Critical hits do make things more powerful, and the differences between a WS that can crit, and cannot crit, are quite large. Especially when you consider close/similar fTP and mods, like how Evis and DE are, and RR/King's Justice.

a Change like the above to Rudra's would make it not only a powerful unstacked WS, but wouldn't over-break make it anymore powerful than it currently is stacked. (infact, at 300% TP it'll be .25fTP weaker).

I'm sure even you can see the truth in these words. Critical hits aren't as powerful outside abyssea as they are inside, But they are certainly still as powerful in comparison to non-crits, in or out. The difference is noticeable.

[Arcon]

I honestly cannot see the appeal of playing NIN. It's like a mix of MNK and THF, but excels in neither. Maybe I'm just not that kind of player. As DD they are sub-par, inside and outside of Abyssea. Even Kannagi 90 NINs don't come close to WAR and MNK without empyreans, possibly other DDs too (I honestly didn't see any other DDs in months, so it's a little hard to judge, I'm guessing DRG would also win easily).

From my experience weapon skills would rank like this:
1. Ukko's Fury
2. Victory Smite
3. Wildfire/Jishnu
4. Torcleaver, Blade: Hi, Chant du Cygne
5. Rudra's Storm, Tachi: Fudo
6. Quietus
7. (Didn't see many/any others yet)

Of course this could be just because of the players I've been seeing around (which, as I said before, wasn't a large number, since everyone is on MNK or WAR normally).

Rudra's Storm, however, has the advantage that was mentioned before. It can be stacked every 30s with either SA or TA, or every 60s with both. This doesn't eliminate the need for other WS on THF, but it doesn't make it quite as bad as similar WS due to that fact. Now, if Byrth's proposed TH system was in place, it would be very significant again, in its own right.

[Karbuncle]

I don't know, Maybe I'm a unique THF, I just don't understand why everyone's so comfortable Rudra's being a steaming pile of Mediocre unless its stacked... I don't mind it replacing Evisc, or DE, thats what i want it to do in fact.

I'm sure no WAR complains they don't get to use Raging Rush anymore... No MNK complains Victory Smite out-classes Asuran/Tornado... I would think.

I think a modest boost to Rudra's that would allow it to be more powerful than Evisc/DE unstacked isn't asking too much from SE, It would only server to help THF. Its not going to make THF better than WAR or MNK, But It'll help THF in a small way, which is what it needs.

Again, Like my proposed adjustment above, It would make Rudra's a fierce unstacked WS, but it would not make it any more powerful stacked than it is now. It would keep it useable a lot more often, allowing Thwast THFs to keep up Aftermath without sacrificing damage where applicable.

THF and DNC are both jobs that are already limited so much by the Devs for whatever reasons, do we really need even our Weaponskills to be limited in uses? I'm surprised Byrth and Arc are so comfortable with it too...

[Smush]

NO please keep rudra storm the same way its a good ws outside unstacked it does do good when you add in the after math and you can stacked its great on new voidwatch nms i have done 2.3-3.7k Stacked and with fusseto +2 off hand its even better i can get some screenshots if you want. And in abyssea its not weak at all its just not a crit ws so why would you even compare it to thos and when stacked it does crit in abyssea and i have had it do 5-7.6k inside you can check the link in my sig for thes SS. its 100% fine the way it is i would be very upset if they change it. abyssea is not the only part of the game nor will it be the main part in the future.

[Rearden]

Making Rudra's more powerful isn't going to make THF more useful for hate management than other jobs, or make it wanted for anything other than TH.

So basically, the only situation that Rudra's is currently good (Party/Ally play - hate control, TH stacking) is taken care of, and now Rudra's will become a great WS to use unstacked in solo play as well for a job than can already solo nearly everything.

[Karbuncle]

If you just are responding to the OP and not my idea, I kindly ask you to ignore this post. (Except for the very last part)

NO please keep rudra storm the same way its a good ws outside unstacked

Right off the bat, No its not. Evisceration is precisely 5.0fTP if all 5 hits land (i think 6.0 Technically if you're dual wielding? someone correct me if I'm wrong), and can crit. its Mods are only DEX:30 (30% less than Rudra's) but crit and higher fTP by far (at 100%) makes up for it.

Dancing Edge, is 5.1875 (6.1875 if Dual wielding, again correct me if im misunderstanding that), With Better mod oppurtunity (DEF:30 CHR:40 over DEX:60)

Rudra's, at 100%TP, is 3.25(4.25 dual wield?), so right off the bat its already behind in that regard. Unless you sub an Inferior offhand weapon (Fussetto +2) then it becomes 4.25(5.25?), which even still is behind Evis and DE.

Its bad compared to the above too, and will always average lower unstacked unless you save to 300%TP, even then Evisc still has the capacity to outperform it thanks to it being able to Crit.

it does do good when you add in the after math and you can stacked its great on new voidwatch nms i have done 2.3-3.7k Stacked

No one denies its good stacked, for the record, changing it to a Crit WS will do absolutely nothing to its Stacked Damage (unless they adjust fTP mods as a result)

And in abyssea its not weak at all its just not a crit ws

Yes it is, and not being able to crit without forcing through SA/TA is precisely why its a weak WS (unstacked). its the same reason DRK and SAM lost their shine in Abyssea. But frankly This isn't about abyssea. Again, Its very strong stacked.

so why would you even compare it to thos and when stacked it does crit in abyssea and i have had it do 5-7.6k inside you can check the link in my sig for thes SS.

I do not debate its powerful stacked.

its 100% fine the way it is

No its not unless you enjoy mediocrity restricted by JA timers?

i would be very upset if they change it.

Why would you be upset if they changed it so its more powerful unstacked, and its stacked power is unchanged?

abyssea is not the only part of the game nor will it be the main part in the future.

Abyssea has nothing to do with it. You have 2WS one is 5.0fTP, can't crit, one has 5.0fTP, can crit, Which one will do more damage? Abyssea didn't make Crits good, It made them better.

Again, i mention, THF and DNC are both very limited jobs thanks to the Devs vision of them, DNC with its Waltz timers and general lack of needs, and THF and its lack of everything. Do our WS truly have to be on a "Useful only SA/TA'd" Limitation as well?

Making Rudra's more powerful isn't going to make THF more useful for hate management than other jobs, or make it wanted for anything other than TH.

Well, ignoring that I've never heard a single person say "We can't do this fight without a THF for Enmity control and hate management", On the topic of Treasure hunter... According to recent tests (dont right here), Treasure Hunter beyond the "Treasure Hunter II" job trait does so very little that you're likely better off having a BRD or something sub THF and replace the THF with a real DD.

THF being my favorite job, that makes me incredibly sad lol

[Greatguardian]

@Krabnuckle, personally I'm hesitant to really praise Jishnu's because of how poorly Ranger is able to handle actually firing off the WS on a consistent basis. Victory Smite, for example, is extremely powerful in the hands of a Monk, but Puppetmaster lacks the tools to use it to the sort of effectiveness that Monk can.

The appeal of Blade: Hi over something like Chant du Cygne is really the fact that Ninja is so much more generally useful than Blue mage or Paladin in Abyssea, rather than the strength of the WS itself. Having a 6.0 fTP 4-hit crit WS with a 150% Str mod won't mean much if Scholar is the only job that can use it, etc.

[Karbuncle]

@Krabnuckle, personally I'm hesitant to really praise Jishnu's because of how poorly Ranger is able to handle actually firing off the WS on a consistent basis. Victory Smite, for example, is extremely powerful in the hands of a Monk, but Puppetmaster lacks the tools to use it to the sort of effectiveness that Monk can.

The appeal of Blade: Hi over something like Chant du Cygne is really the fact that Ninja is so much more generally useful than Blue mage or Paladin in Abyssea, rather than the strength of the WS itself. Having a 6.0 fTP 4-hit crit WS with a 150% Str mod won't mean much if Scholar is the only job that can use it, etc.

Ah, I simply thought you were going off "Biggest Numbers" :X. Also, No comment on Improving Rudra's to be good Stacked and Unstacked D:?