Job Manifesto discussion RE: Summoner

[Soundwave]

I'm afraid it will be along the lines of mana cede with a 5 min recast.....I hope this is not the case....

[Malamasala]

I just wish SE would get a clue and see how they keep butchering SMN.

Like SAM gets a 3 min meditate ability, no penalties, at level 30. SMN gets Mana Cede at 87, with 5 min recast, that costs 100 MP to get 100 TP to a pet, which only can transfer this TP to boost elemental attacks by about 200 damage.

Ok... 100 MP and SMN can do 200 damage more. No cost at all, and a SAM can do 1k+ more with a WS?

I get it. SAM is SE's love child, and SMN is the bastard child that nobody wanted and should just be punished for everything it does.

SE can prove me wrong, by giving us a job ability that is a stance and will last a long duration and let us BP whenever we want, for an additional proportional fee relative to pact cost and time remaining on BP timer.

[Korpg]

Just ignore him Raz, your idea for the new JA that will lower BP timer was good.

[Korpg]

I just wish SE would get a clue and see how they keep butchering SMN.

Like SAM gets a 3 min meditate ability, no penalties, at level 30. SMN gets Mana Cede at 87, with 5 min recast, that costs 100 MP to get 100 TP to a pet, which only can transfer this TP to boost elemental attacks by about 200 damage.

Ok... 100 MP and SMN can do 200 damage more. No cost at all, and a SAM can do 1k+ more with a WS?

I get it. SAM is SE's love child, and SMN is the bastard child that nobody wanted and should just be punished for everything it does.

SE can prove me wrong, by giving us a job ability that is a stance and will last a long duration and let us BP whenever we want, for an additional proportional fee relative to pact cost and time remaining on BP timer.

So, what do you really want?

You want SMN to be the best job out there? It already is, you just haven't seen it yet because you are blinded by the negatives of the job instead of actually looking for the positives of the job.

Stop being so negative all the time, it is getting old.

[Razushu]

I just wish SE would get a clue and see how they keep butchering SMN.

Like SAM gets a 3 min meditate ability, no penalties, at level 30. SMN gets Mana Cede at 87, with 5 min recast, that costs 100 MP to get 100 TP to a pet, which only can transfer this TP to boost elemental attacks by about 200 damage.

Ok... 100 MP and SMN can do 200 damage more. No cost at all, and a SAM can do 1k+ more with a WS?

I get it. SAM is SE's love child, and SMN is the bastard child that nobody wanted and should just be punished for everything it does.

SE can prove me wrong, by giving us a job ability that is a stance and will last a long duration and let us BP whenever we want, for an additional proportional fee relative to pact cost and time remaining on BP timer.

I'm going to be optimistic, SE have been coming through for us lately, hopefully the new ability will be a stance seeing as the manifesto says "A new ability that expends an additional amount of MP to shorten the recast time for blood pacts". It says plural so I don't think it will be a one shot 5 min ability.

-EDIT-

Also I'm ok with SAM's DD abilities > ours, we are much better at, healing, buffing, and kiting. I'm not too upset that Meditate> Mana Cede because sure a SAM will put out higher damage(their sole role), but we can haste a party much better.

[Soundwave]

I think your idea raz and my ability idea as a mixed into a stance would be solid. I'll see if I can find it again.

**Edit

Found it

I would like to see the new JA work along these examples
Timer - Blood Pact: Rage 60 Seconds left/ Use new JA/ 60*2=120 MP
Timer - Blood Pact: Rage 50 Seconds left/ Use new JA/ 50*2=100 MP
Timer - Blood Pact: Rage 40 Seconds left/ Use new JA/ 40*2=80 MP
Timer - Blood Pact: Rage 30 Seconds left/ Use new JA/ 30*2=60 MP
Timer - Blood Pact: Rage 20 Seconds left/ Use new JA/ 20*2=40 MP
Timer - Blood Pact: Rage 10 Seconds left/ Use new JA/ 10*2=20 MP

Yes Please

I would not want the new JA to work like this

Timer - Blood Pact: Rage 60 Seconds left/ Use new JA/ Fixed MP 100
Timer - Blood Pact: Rage 50 Seconds left/ Use new JA/ Fixed MP 100
Timer - Blood Pact: Rage 40 Seconds left/ Use new JA/ Fixed MP 100
Timer - Blood Pact: Rage 30 Seconds left/ Use new JA/ Fixed MP 100
Timer - Blood Pact: Rage 20 Seconds left/ Use new JA/ Fixed MP 100
Timer - Blood Pact: Rage 10 Seconds left/ Use new JA/ Fixed MP 100

No Thanks

Will be total crap if it is only a fixed amount of MP, this will feel along the lines of when BP's used to activate when a mob ran out of range. The penalty will be x amount of MP lost if you activate the new JA when the recast is like @ 2 seconds left by accident. I hope this is not the case.

[Razushu]

I think your idea raz and my ability idea as a mixed into a stance would be solid. I'll see if I can find it again.

**Edit

Found it

I would like to see the new JA work along these examples
Timer - Blood Pact: Rage 60 Seconds left/ Use new JA/ 60*2=120 MP
Timer - Blood Pact: Rage 50 Seconds left/ Use new JA/ 50*2=100 MP
Timer - Blood Pact: Rage 40 Seconds left/ Use new JA/ 40*2=80 MP
Timer - Blood Pact: Rage 30 Seconds left/ Use new JA/ 30*2=60 MP
Timer - Blood Pact: Rage 20 Seconds left/ Use new JA/ 20*2=40 MP
Timer - Blood Pact: Rage 10 Seconds left/ Use new JA/ 10*2=20 MP

Yes Please

I would not want the new JA to work like this

Timer - Blood Pact: Rage 60 Seconds left/ Use new JA/ Fixed MP 100
Timer - Blood Pact: Rage 50 Seconds left/ Use new JA/ Fixed MP 100
Timer - Blood Pact: Rage 40 Seconds left/ Use new JA/ Fixed MP 100
Timer - Blood Pact: Rage 30 Seconds left/ Use new JA/ Fixed MP 100
Timer - Blood Pact: Rage 20 Seconds left/ Use new JA/ Fixed MP 100
Timer - Blood Pact: Rage 10 Seconds left/ Use new JA/ Fixed MP 100

No Thanks

Will be total crap if it is only a fixed amount of MP, this will feel along the lines of when BP's used to activate when a mob ran out of range. The penalty will be x amount of MP lost if you activate the new JA when the recast is like @ 2 seconds left by accident. I hope this is not the case.

I like your idea and a combo of yours with a non-MP cost would be close to perfect. Something like a summoning recast penalty or a HP penalty would be really interesting, a HP cost could work like yours. Ability HP cost= Blood Pact recast*4, so if you use Predator claws back to back you lose 180HP to activate, this would at the very least lead to some very interesting "Whoops I killed myself" stories

The more I think on it, the more I'm against an MP cost for this ability we already pay MP to do anything on SMN, and it's not cheap. Even if this ability was free the cost of the pacts will be more than enough to make us pay close attention to our MP and what we're doing.

[Soundwave]

I agree, I can live with a summoning magic recast penalty, I'm sure there will be some type of penalty I only hope its nothing to punishing.

Job Ability (Stance) Astral Void
Recast Timer: 00:10
When in Astral Void stance the Blood Pact: Rage timers will be reset with the respecting set amount of MP below.
Penalty for having this stance on will result in increase Blood Pact: Ward Timers.

Timer - Blood Pact: Rage 60 Seconds left/ Use new JA/ 60*2=120 MP
Timer - Blood Pact: Rage 50 Seconds left/ Use new JA/ 50*2=100 MP
Timer - Blood Pact: Rage 40 Seconds left/ Use new JA/ 40*2=80 MP
Timer - Blood Pact: Rage 30 Seconds left/ Use new JA/ 30*2=60 MP
Timer - Blood Pact: Rage 20 Seconds left/ Use new JA/ 20*2=40 MP
Timer - Blood Pact: Rage 10 Seconds left/ Use new JA/ 10*2=20 MP

In conjunction with Astral Void

Job Ability (Stance) Astral Life
Recast Timer: 00:10
When in Astral Life stance the Blood Pact: Ward timers will be reset with the respecting set amount of HP below.
Penalty for having this stance on will result in increase Blood Pact: Rage Timers.

Timer - Blood Pact: Ward 60 Seconds left/ Use new JA/ 60*2=120 HP
Timer - Blood Pact: Ward 50 Seconds left/ Use new JA/ 50*2=100 HP
Timer - Blood Pact: Ward 40 Seconds left/ Use new JA/ 40*2=80 HP
Timer - Blood Pact: Ward 30 Seconds left/ Use new JA/ 30*2=60 HP
Timer - Blood Pact: Ward 20 Seconds left/ Use new JA/ 20*2=40 HP
Timer - Blood Pact: Ward 10 Seconds left/ Use new JA/ 10*2=20 HP

"If" these two were to be added, only one JA would be in effect at a time and would mean the summoner must chose between attacker or Buffer etc.

Any thoughts? Constructive feed back please.

[Razushu]

I agree, I can live with a summoning magic recast penalty, I'm sure there will be some type of penalty I only hope its nothing to punishing.

Job Ability (Stance) Astral Void
Recast Timer: 00:10
When in Astral Void stance the Blood Pact: Rage timers will be reset with the respecting set amount of MP below.
Penalty for having this stance on will result in increase Blood Pact: Ward Timers.

Timer - Blood Pact: Rage 60 Seconds left/ Use new JA/ 60*2=120 MP
Timer - Blood Pact: Rage 50 Seconds left/ Use new JA/ 50*2=100 MP
Timer - Blood Pact: Rage 40 Seconds left/ Use new JA/ 40*2=80 MP
Timer - Blood Pact: Rage 30 Seconds left/ Use new JA/ 30*2=60 MP
Timer - Blood Pact: Rage 20 Seconds left/ Use new JA/ 20*2=40 MP
Timer - Blood Pact: Rage 10 Seconds left/ Use new JA/ 10*2=20 MP

In conjunction with Astral Void

Job Ability (Stance) Astral Life
Recast Timer: 00:10
When in Astral Life stance the Blood Pact: Ward timers will be reset with the respecting set amount of HP below.
Penalty for having this stance on will result in increase Blood Pact: Rage Timers.

Timer - Blood Pact: Ward 60 Seconds left/ Use new JA/ 60*2=120 HP
Timer - Blood Pact: Ward 50 Seconds left/ Use new JA/ 50*2=100 HP
Timer - Blood Pact: Ward 40 Seconds left/ Use new JA/ 40*2=80 HP
Timer - Blood Pact: Ward 30 Seconds left/ Use new JA/ 30*2=60 HP
Timer - Blood Pact: Ward 20 Seconds left/ Use new JA/ 20*2=40 HP
Timer - Blood Pact: Ward 10 Seconds left/ Use new JA/ 10*2=20 HP

"If" these two were to be added, only one JA would be in effect at a time and would mean the summoner must chose between attacker or Buffer etc.

Any thoughts? Constructive feed back please.

Maybe a penalty to the other school of pacts could work also?

Astral void would place a x2 cost on the price of wards, and vice versa. This idea would probably require a static reduction in recast to be balanced though.

[Malamasala]

So, what do you really want?

You want SMN to be the best job out there? It already is, you just haven't seen it yet because you are blinded by the negatives of the job instead of actually looking for the positives of the job.

Stop being so negative all the time, it is getting old.

What I want is simple. I don't want extra costs and penalties for things that are worse than what other jobs get for free. SAM is fine doing 1k while I do 200 with my TP, what isn't fine is that it costs 100 MP.

I don't like that it costs 100 MP to get 100 TP when SAM gets 100 TP for free.

SAM having a 3 min recast on 100 TP while SMN has 5, is just a slight annoyance.

SAM getting 100% TP equals a SMN getting 0 seconds left on BP timer. A SMN getting 100% TP isn't near the same thing.

Am I getting my point across, or do I have to speak a different language? If my abilities are worse, why am I penalized more for them? That is my one big question regarding Summoner.

This is of course assuming you made the mistake to think I complained about the 1k damage vs 200 damage. Raz certainly did. Though I never expected any of you two to actually get my point. Nothing personal, just my experience so far.