Ther case for -Prep as related to gear ect

[Razushu]

And yet you admit that you're making 8 of them. Emp staff is at least useful in the rare situations where melee SMN is appropriate and takes a fraction of the effort to make.

They're actually pretty useful, with the +2 I get +2MP refresh back while still being able to wear Evoker's spats and Summoner's Bracers for acc.

[Arciel]

I dunno about you, but i'm getting 4mp/tic back on celestials and 5 for carby/fenrir/diabolos just using a Fay Crozier and a right mix of perp/refresh gear, unconditionally too (except moonshade earring)... so if all you're getting is +2 with the TotM staves, you're overgearing perp.

And if I were to get a TotM staff at the current levels of perp cost, the only avatars it'll help with is the celestials, and I only really need to get a -4 perp staff to cap perp reduction (I'm not counting the spirits cos no one really cares, or its the same cost as celestials), so its still pretty wasted because of perp caps

As for the acc thing, acc gear on hands and legs are kinda wasted on regular melee attacks. For BPs, you shouldn't need to use them because of adequate skill to cover acc, and would likely move towards damage/crit/etc. In order words, the better you are, the less you'll need those 2 pieces. I no longer ever carry Evoker Spats on me

[Korpg]

And yet you admit that you're making 8 of them. Emp staff is at least useful in the rare situations where melee SMN is appropriate and takes a fraction of the effort to make.

I didn't admit that I'm making any of them. I'm saying that if I choose to make a new staff(s), I would choose the 8 TotM because they are more useful for SMN and the party. Since you don't have to feed the mob TP in order to keep your avatar out.

On bigger stuff than EM, like anything worth killing, you don't want a SMN pretending to melee. There are too many variables in most mobs out there, both inside and outside of abyssea, that you can't have another body to heal or raise just to kill the mob.

[Razushu]

I dunno about you, but i'm getting 4mp/tic back on celestials and 5 for carby/fenrir/diabolos just using a Fay Crozier and a right mix of perp/refresh gear, unconditionally too (except moonshade earring)... so if all you're getting is +2 with the TotM staves, you're overgearing perp.

And if I were to get a TotM staff at the current levels of perp cost, the only avatars it'll help with is the celestials, and I only really need to get a -4 perp staff to cap perp reduction (I'm not counting the spirits cos no one really cares, or its the same cost as celestials), so its still pretty wasted because of perp caps

As for the acc thing, acc gear on hands and legs are kinda wasted on regular melee attacks. For BPs, you shouldn't need to use them because of adequate skill to cover acc, and would likely move towards damage/crit/etc. In order words, the better you are, the less you'll need those 2 pieces. I no longer ever carry Evoker Spats on me

I get +2 atm with my mix of perp/refresh gear(working on moonshade and horn +2 atm). I'm not over gearing perp(except maybe Carby, who is free with +2 feet and mitts), my point was if you get a big chunk off -perp on the weapon you can wear other gear that isn't perp, that possibly may boost Avatar performance. I BP in 420+ SMN mag skill with full acc merits, and still see the occasional wiff on NMs so +28 acc isn't something I would consider useless. When I find acc a non-issue and some other gear to full time I'll drop the spats, but the extra acc is still nice regardless and why would I wear it anyway when I've capped -perp with hands/feety slots free.

[Arciel]

hmm in that case then you're not optimally geared for perp/refresh. There are really only 3 pieces of refresh gear to aim for...
the horn +2, moonshade earring and stearc subligar. I kid you not on the subligar. It's ugly but it does the job well (and is way easier to get and ultimately more useful than auger's brais), because really, those are the limiting factors in terms of obtaining a strong refresh set.

I do get what you mean by freeing other slots from perp, but those are very limited options.
Even with a Nirvana (90) and its -7 perp, all it frees up for you is 2 gear slots if you gear for optimal refresh upon perp, which are either
1) hands and ring, of which ring has no real alternative options. (keep feet and body on)
2) feet (keep body, hands and ring)

This is of course assuming Celestials. with Fenrir, it could free up hands and feet and allow you to tack on 1 more tic of refresh from Serpentes. On Carbuncle, 2 more tics with a refresh body included. Both are massive independent MP gain playstyles that can be considered for various situations.

In the end, given the current perp cost level, it depends on whether you feel the flexibility in gear options afforded by a higher perp staff are worth the effort. I'm personally of the opinion that they do not, because I believe avatar damage is primarily BP based and when I BP its not in perp gear anyway.

[Razushu]

hmm in that case then you're not optimally geared for perp/refresh. There are really only 3 pieces of refresh gear to aim for...
the horn +2, moonshade earring and stearc subligar. I kid you not on the subligar. It's ugly but it does the job well (and is way easier to get and ultimately more useful than auger's brais), because really, those are the limiting factors in terms of obtaining a strong refresh set.

I do get what you mean by freeing other slots from perp, but those are very limited options.
Even with a Nirvana (90) and its -7 perp, all it frees up for you is 2 gear slots if you gear for optimal refresh upon perp, which are either
1) hands and ring, of which ring has no real alternative options. (keep feet and body on)
2) feet (keep body, hands and ring)

This is of course assuming Celestials. with Fenrir, it could free up hands and feet and allow you to tack on 1 more tic of refresh from Serpentes. On Carbuncle, 2 more tics with a refresh body included. Both are massive independent MP gain playstyles that can be considered for various situations.

In the end, given the current perp cost level, it depends on whether you feel the flexibility in gear options afforded by a higher perp staff are worth the effort. I'm personally of the opinion that they do not, because I believe avatar damage is primarily BP based and when I BP its not in perp gear anyway.

I see your point, and am working toword horn and earring. SE has been adding gear that could have idle applications if you can max out - perp with these slots free, the Serpentes set is a good example. I can see the use of it now, and who knows what they'll add in the next updates. At the moment the benefits may be a little limited vs. the effort required but that may change.

[Dallas]

On bigger stuff than EM, like anything worth killing, you don't want a SMN pretending to melee.

Psst, I think SMN graduated to VT mobs in 2006. You aren't going to learn anything about it hanging around people who need a thread devoted to stacking -perp gear.

[Korpg]

Psst, I think SMN graduated to VT mobs in 2006. You aren't going to learn anything about it hanging around people who need a thread devoted to stacking -perp gear.

Oh wow, you are on VT mobs now? With a party/alliance still? On mobs that take less than 30 seconds to kill, with or without you?

[Dallas]

Someone tell the WAR what year it is, please.

[Arciel]

Psst, I think SMN graduated to VT mobs in 2006. You aren't going to learn anything about it hanging around people who need a thread devoted to stacking -perp gear.

If you remember reading the OP, they only needed one because someone was derailing it into a melee SMN argument.

but srsly tho, I am shocked at how little some SMN know about proper perp gearing. I never thought this thread was necessary until now. Like, even you know perp math better than them, and I think that says something.