Grounds of Valor / Brown Casket Feedback

[Malacite]

The people who've gone significantly long periods without a drop vastly outweigh those who go 1/1 or even find the item in an hour or two. While I may personally joke about how the game hates me and makes my luck suck because of it, there's no excuse for going 20 hours without the ring, 15 without Melaco Mittens, and even back in the day I spent a good 8 hours trying for Gothic Sabatons in BD. The drop rates suck, period.

I'm up to about 30+ now. This is retarded, especially for an item that's meant to reduce time spent doing a chore.

[Tokiro]

The people who've gone significantly long periods without a drop vastly outweigh those who go 1/1 or even find the item in an hour or two. While I may personally joke about how the game hates me and makes my luck suck because of it, there's no excuse for going 20 hours without the ring, 15 without Melaco Mittens, and even back in the day I spent a good 8 hours trying for Gothic Sabatons in BD. The drop rates suck, period.

And you know that, right? No one ever said, 'Hey, go to such and such an area and after killing 3 mobs and getting a chest you will 100% get a ring in it!' Everyone knows that these items are bonuses that you get for hard slog. People who camped Kreuzet (including myself) spent many a week/month waiting for the thing to actually spawn only to have it drop a crystal... But we want these items because they enhance our gameplay. Now, knowing the drop rates and knowing that so many people are frustrated with them, why would you keep trying? Because you want the item. I know that, you know that and SE knows that. It's called a game. Enjoy it or stop doing it.

[Seriha]

Our definitions of game greatly vary if you're okay with people putting large amounts of time into something with nothing to show for it. In fact, old game faults like NMs like Kreutzet by no means justify current ills just because it's "not as bad as it used to be!" In both cases, I had no other reason to be in those zones other than that specific item. I'd rather have fought a 1-2hr spawn NM with a 10% drop rate than open chest after chest with no guarantee that I'm actually getting closer to the drop. I didn't need EXP. I didn't need crystals. I certainly didn't need gobs and gobs of Zeruhn Soot.

[Tokiro]

Our definitions of game greatly vary if you're okay with people putting large amounts of time into something with nothing to show for it. In fact, old game faults like NMs like Kreutzet by no means justify current ills just because it's "not as bad as it used to be!" In both cases, I had no other reason to be in those zones other than that specific item. I'd rather have fought a 1-2hr spawn NM with a 10% drop rate than open chest after chest with no guarantee that I'm actually getting closer to the drop. I didn't need EXP. I didn't need crystals. I certainly didn't need gobs and gobs of Zeruhn Soot.

My definition of a game is something you play by the rules and if you don't like it, you stop playing. How anyone can seriously expect such an egocentric point of view to carry any weight is beyond me. 'I want this item so give it to me now' doesn't work in any game. 'Current ills' are not current ills. They are specific to you and others who will not rest until they get that special item that they obviously seem not to be able to live without. Throwing tantrums because you can't get what you want is puerile to say the least.

[Seriha]

Items exist to be acquired and used. If they're never acquired, then they certainly can't be used. Of course, if they're not used even if acquired, then they were more than likely a poorly designed item to begin with. By all means, assume I'm demanding a drop just because I walked into a zone. I just imagined those 35 hours spent over a week just logging on, focusing specifically on that, then logging out. You can confuse "need" with "something useful I could do on my own time whenever" all you want, but the end result was that time not being rewarded. The only aspect of ego involved was that it happened to me, but I'm also not the only one.

This is a condition hardly akin to rules like in that of basketball where you can't elbow, goal tend, double dribble, charge, travel, or whatever. No, imagine a game of basketball where only 5% of your baskets counted. That can be a rule, right? It's a pretty stupid rule, but it's a rule if you're trying to cling to the spirit of the word. No, I play games to have fun, not games so mired by "rules" that they either lose that fun or turn into something worse than an RL job without getting paid. The system, in terms of standalone drops, is terrible.

[Septimus]

My definition of a game is something you play by the rules and if you don't like it, you stop playing. How anyone can seriously expect such an egocentric point of view to carry any weight is beyond me. 'I want this item so give it to me now' doesn't work in any game. 'Current ills' are not current ills. They are specific to you and others who will not rest until they get that special item that they obviously seem not to be able to live without. Throwing tantrums because you can't get what you want is puerile to say the least.

Rules can be changed when they are terribly detrimental to the game.

Remember when pop items for the group 2 Jailers in Sea weren't 100%? I sure do, and that was certainly less than fun. Square actually listened to the player base, changed the drop rate from 25-33% to 100%. If we went by the "if you don't like it stop playing" mentality, we would still have a low drop rate on the pop items and Jailer of Love would be invincible.

It is not egotistical to expect to be rewarded for working towards a goal. If someone spends 10+ hours killing things, you should have something to show for that effort. There is a difference between expecting to get something right now and spending more than a full day killing things and having no tangible gains. I cannot fault someone for being more than slightly upset for going 10-20-30 hours trying to get an item- that is just bad game design and it should not be tolerated.

[Tokiro]

Items exist to be acquired and used. If they're never acquired, then they certainly can't be used. Of course, if they're not used even if acquired, then they were more than likely a poorly designed item to begin with. By all means, assume I'm demanding a drop just because I walked into a zone. I just imagined those 35 hours spent over a week just logging on, focusing specifically on that, then logging out. You can confuse "need" with "something useful I could do on my own time whenever" all you want, but the end result was that time not being rewarded. The only aspect of ego involved was that it happened to me, but I'm also not the only one.

This is a condition hardly akin to rules like in that of basketball where you can't elbow, goal tend, double dribble, charge, travel, or whatever. No, imagine a game of basketball where only 5% of your baskets counted. That can be a rule, right? It's a pretty stupid rule, but it's a rule if you're trying to cling to the spirit of the word. No, I play games to have fun, not games so mired by "rules" that they either lose that fun or turn into something worse than an RL job without getting paid. The system, in terms of standalone drops, is terrible.

Your basketball analogy is interesting. A basket is something you achieve by overcoming the odds and training hard. What you are trying to do in getting this item is throw a ball from anywhere in the court and, given a certain amount of time (because, hey, you put the time in, right?) you should definitely score a basket. That is no rule. That is pure fantasy. Sure, some people will get the basket immediately and run off screaming how lucky they were. Others won't. But, what you are trying to do is circumvent a rule which is in place for a reason. With your logic, everyone should just get the item in their postbox because that way no one has to do anything. How much time it took you to get the item is neither here nor there. The rules are these:
1. The drops on these items are very low.
2. If you try to get the item, it may take a very long time to get it.
3. You do not have to have this item, because not having it will not spoil your enjoyment of the rest of the game.

SE can change the drop rate all they like, but that means that the item will become less valuable. I don't want everyone running about with the same gear, even if I can only get the mediocre stuff myself. That's part of the fun. Knowing there is more out there that you could one day get. If we apply your rules to this entire game, I'm sure half the people in it would leave. I understand your frustration, I just feel it is completely self-inflicted.

[Tokiro]

Rules can be changed when they are terribly detrimental to the game.

Remember when pop items for the group 2 Jailers in Sea weren't 100%? I sure do, and that was certainly less than fun. Square actually listened to the player base, changed the drop rate from 25-33% to 100%. If we went by the "if you don't like it stop playing" mentality, we would still have a low drop rate on the pop items and Jailer of Love would be invincible.

It is not egotistical to expect to be rewarded for working towards a goal. If someone spends 10+ hours killing things, you should have something to show for that effort. There is a difference between expecting to get something right now and spending more than a full day killing things and having no tangible gains. I cannot fault someone for being more than slightly upset for going 10-20-30 hours trying to get an item- that is just bad game design and it should not be tolerated.

As I posted above, the time you put in is obviously a pain in the proverbial. I have a friend trying to get the refresh augmented hairpiece from Abyssea Konschtat. He is on his third week. He complains and goes on about it, but goes back every evening to try to get it. He has not and would not post on a forum like this, just because he knows how hard it can be to actually get it. He wants it and he will put in the time until he does. The drop rate is horrendous, I know. But I also know enough people who have put in the time and been rewarded eventually. Bad game design is an interesting comment. I think it's pretty good to have people really wanting items that are so hard to get. That's a pretty good design as far as I can see. As for me, I have more interesting things to do than spend 30 hours trying to get a ring that won't make much difference to my gameplay. But, hey, that's me. To all those who are still trying, go for it and I'm sure someday you'll get the item you want. Whatever SE does, I hope it never changes the drop rates on these things. Too many people are too hot for them.

[Seriha]

3. You do not have to have this item, because not having it will not spoil your enjoyment of the rest of the game.

You're putting too much of an emphasis on the rarity translating to value. An item should be valuable because it's useful, not because a random number generator is picky. You will never convince me that everyone suddenly having a Cocoon Band would ruin the game. Same with Melaco Mittens, Prouesse Ring, Grapevine Cape, and so on. People having them will not spoil your enjoyment of the game unless you want to be a haughty priss that feels just because you had to endure something, everyone else after should have to do the same.

[Tokiro]

You're putting too much of an emphasis on the rarity translating to value. An item should be valuable because it's useful, not because a random number generator is picky. You will never convince me that everyone suddenly having a Cocoon Band would ruin the game. Same with Melaco Mittens, Prouesse Ring, Grapevine Cape, and so on. People having them will not spoil your enjoyment of the game unless you want to be a haughty priss that feels just because you had to endure something, everyone else after should have to do the same.

I am putting no emphasis on the rarity translating to value. The items in the chests are useful. Why would you spend so much time trying to get them and so much time on this forum arguing about the drop rates, if they weren't? Useful items are hard to get. I don't want that to change and you do. Let's agree to disagree.