ATTN: Community Reps/Dev Team: PUPs of Vanadiel DEMAND a response on Automaton A.I.!

[Horadrim]

Wow... Camate... I suddenly want to finish leveling PUP.

As a side note: Activate/Deactivate is an accepted strategy? I never would have guessed the Devs were ok with this -- I thought it was just something they overlooked.

With regards to the Silence issue.

its not that they cast on monsters that resist it -- they will cast it on a monster that has no spells, but has MP; such as Crab.

No one has any complaints with abilities being resisted -- that happens, and while its unfortunate, its no worse than a missed weapon skill. The problem is when the automaton wastes its lengthy casting cycle on a spell that has no purpose or effect whether it hits or misses.

Separating out the magic types (Dark, Elemental, Enfeebling, Healing) and giving each its own timer will help this, but its still something that should be looked into.

Thats a lot of information. I'm sad that Maneuvers will continue to severely hinder the Damage of the Master, But if you can revamp attachments to make it worthwhile like you say, i don't see it being a problem!

Also, "Negative aspects of Tactical processor". Um, Camate, what does a Tactical Processor do D:? Can you please ask them that?

We'd all like to know . We know its negatives (Overload Rate) but not its positives.. :X

The problem isn't maneuvers, the problem is that maneuvers are pet abilities. There shouldn't be an animation attached to the Puppetmaster. The Automaton, when activating a maneuver, should get that little steam animation from the PUP special emote (as a kind of "kicking into gear" indication) so that it doesn't distract from the PUP's attack cycles.

The Auto deals most of the damage, but the PUP's ability to maintain decent DPS is pretty important too. In situations where the automaton is just nuking, losing DPS because you have to freshen up your maneuvers hurts the PUP overall. Maneuvers don't need to be fixed, the annoying animation just needs to change.

[Nala]

The problem isn't maneuvers, the problem is that maneuvers are pet abilities. There shouldn't be an animation attached to the Puppetmaster. The Automaton, when activating a maneuver, should get that little steam animation from the PUP special emote (as a kind of "kicking into gear" indication) so that it doesn't distract from the PUP's attack cycles.

Yes they are pet abilities but more precisely they are pet commands, all pet JA's have the master initiate some kind of animation, furthermore in the maneuvers case they actually give you a physical buff unlike alot of the other pet jobs. not to say it would be nice if using pet commands would forego the animation, however just wanted point out you're not entirely correct.

[Mercilessturtle]

The Auto deals most of the damage, but the PUP's ability to maintain decent DPS is pretty important too. In situations where the automaton is just nuking, losing DPS because you have to freshen up your maneuvers hurts the PUP overall. Maneuvers don't need to be fixed, the annoying animation just needs to change.

No, the automaton does like 1/20th the damage of the master, it is really pathetic. This is why using maneuvers so frequently is such a problem, the master is 95% of the damage, and you have to cut your damage by 10% just to get a boost to the 5% the automaton does. I doubt they can remove the delay, all JAs work the same way, having a delay built in like that allows gear swaps to function correctly without messing up your tp gear.

Camate: Thanks for the info, but I have to say the "no we won't fix maneuvers" thing basically means pup will always stay bottom of the barrel. I realize there has to be a balance so that you can't keep up 3 of the same maneuver all the time, but saying "pups have to lose 10% of their damage keeping up maneuvers, tough luck" is pretty brutal.

How about a JA that makes maneuvers last 5 times as long, but also give 5 times as much "burden" or whatever you want to call the "make you overload" thing? That way it stays just as hard to keep up triple wind maneuvers when DDing, we don't lose so much damage to ability delay, and it doesn't break the way things are now. Like if you were using the blm frame and wanted to spam ice maneuvers, you just don't use the new ability and your maneuver duration and burden stay the way they are now. Make the new JA be a 5 minute duration/recast type deal.

[Theytak]

No, the automaton does like 1/20th the damage of the master, it is really pathetic. This is why using maneuvers so frequently is such a problem, the master is 95% of the damage, and you have to cut your damage by 10% just to get a boost to the 5% the automaton does. I doubt they can remove the delay, all JAs work the same way, having a delay built in like that allows gear swaps to function correctly without messing up your tp gear.

Camate: Thanks for the info, but I have to say the "no we won't fix maneuvers" thing basically means pup will always stay bottom of the barrel. I realize there has to be a balance so that you can't keep up 3 of the same maneuver all the time, but saying "pups have to lose 10% of their damage keeping up maneuvers, tough luck" is pretty brutal.

How about a JA that makes maneuvers last 5 times as long, but also give 5 times as much "burden" or whatever you want to call the "make you overload" thing? That way it stays just as hard to keep up triple wind maneuvers when DDing, we don't lose so much damage to ability delay, and it doesn't break the way things are now. Like if you were using the blm frame and wanted to spam ice maneuvers, you just don't use the new ability and your maneuver duration and burden stay the way they are now. Make the new JA be a 5 minute duration/recast type deal.

Honestly, the 2sec delay caused by using JAs is only going to have a noticeable effect on a pup's DPS in min-max situations, among min-max players who care about minute differences in over all dps. I'd wager about 75-80% of the game's playerbase doesn't care about min-maxing, and another 14-19% only use min-max stats as a guideline for playing. That leaves a minuscule 1-5% of the populace who actually play the game entirely around min-maxing their gear to squeeze out that last tenth of a percent in their dps. The reason they're not planning on changing maneuvers is because it's only that 1-5% of the populace who actually cares about how they affect dps, and the rest are just griping for the sake of convenience, when in reality maneuvers as they are are actually rather balanced for the bulk of the playerbase.

[Mercilessturtle]

Honestly, the 2sec delay caused by using JAs is only going to have a noticeable effect on a pup's DPS in min-max situations, among min-max players who care about minute differences in over all dps.

6 seconds being deleted out of every 60 seconds is 10%. You lose 10% of your damage keeping maneuvers up. Period. It has nothing to do with min-maxing. Just because you don't know or care what is going on, doesn't mean it is ok for a job to lose 10% of their damage having to spam JAs that give less than 10% damage in return.

Having a clue is not a bad thing. Paying attention to what you are doing is not a bad thing. Being able to do basic grade school arithmetic is not a bad thing. Quit acting like anyone who bothers to understand the current state of pup is a terrible person for wanting to actually do decent damage instead of being stuck in "gimp monk with a funny looking wyvern" land.

[brayen]

No, the automaton does like 1/20th the damage of the master, it is really pathetic. This is why using maneuvers so frequently is such a problem, the master is 95% of the damage, and you have to cut your damage by 10% just to get a boost to the 5% the automaton does. I doubt they can remove the delay, all JAs work the same way, having a delay built in like that allows gear swaps to function correctly without messing up your tp gear.

Camate: Thanks for the info, but I have to say the "no we won't fix maneuvers" thing basically means pup will always stay bottom of the barrel. I realize there has to be a balance so that you can't keep up 3 of the same maneuver all the time, but saying "pups have to lose 10% of their damage keeping up maneuvers, tough luck" is pretty brutal.

How about a JA that makes maneuvers last 5 times as long, but also give 5 times as much "burden" or whatever you want to call the "make you overload" thing? That way it stays just as hard to keep up triple wind maneuvers when DDing, we don't lose so much damage to ability delay, and it doesn't break the way things are now. Like if you were using the blm frame and wanted to spam ice maneuvers, you just don't use the new ability and your maneuver duration and burden stay the way they are now. Make the new JA be a 5 minute duration/recast type deal.

the automation AI and what not aside..THIS.. THIS A MILLION TIMES OVER. I swear if they did something like this and gave you more control of your pet via maneuvers..i think i would be in love with this job.
The quoted suggestion seems like a great thing to implement, just make it a "stance" with a decent duration and shortish recast like most other jobs have already (hasso seigan rapid shot solace misery composure etc etc)
It is sad that the way to be the more productive DDer i have to neglect my pet currently.

I know i am still hoping for a fix to the puppet behavior (is it really that hard to have a trigger for when we want silence or blindna etc?) but is there any hopes to have an auto-assist function for pets? as in you engage > pet atks? i always felt the way the NPC or DRG's pet behaved friendlier towards their master..and before ppl throw the "its a puppet you have to control it" realize it is more like a robot then a puppet! it cast at his own rate, and clearly ignores us when we beg him for cures >.>