Confessions of a Leech

[Aurara]

WoW. Honestly why do the "leechers" play this game anymore if they are THAT BORED they must "leech" to get anywhere. It is an mmorog guys. No need to rush. If you hate leveling mmorpg are not for you simple. Video games are meant to be played not cheated the whole way through. Also every leecher I personally met sucked at their class/job. And no amount of research can make you better. Only actively playing. It is sickening as a gamer to read this BS.

It's sickening to read this dribble about how leeching is bad. I literally lvl'd whm 40-90 and knew how to play my job before i got there(and by this i mean once i got cure V) So don't come at me with how "leeching is bad" you honestly prefered the 6k/hr parties back pre ToAU? Waiting for hours for people to get to camp, then hours on end to get a lvl? I mean, if you enjoy that sort of thing go ahead and level that way but please do not come in here as a knight in shining armor trying to defend all that is "good" or what you consider "good" I leeched 7 jobs to 90, and countless others for my maat's cap. Meaning I had to be able to play them well enough to beat Maat(not that this is hard, i mean its maat lol).

Leeching is NOT the way to level. If you do not like the job DO NOT LEVEL IT. Simple. Everyone who is a noobie to a class/game will be bad at it till they learn And so far. Everyone who leeched is bad.

You're making assumptions about players who you have yet to meet. I play all 12 of my 90s perfectly fine(even smn!). Bad people who leech are bad, good people who leech will still be good assuming they have a BASIC understanding of game mechanics.

[Zagen]

Take a real life example, you can read up on how to make a cake and decorate it all you want. But you will never really learn if yiu do not physically learn how to do it. If simply reading stuff makes people "good" at their jobs we would all be rich since we would master any sorta of job.

I read a book about HTML, XHTML, and CSS which got me a job as a entry level web designer. I then continued to read up on PHP because that was the core coding language used at the company at the time, I then quickly excelled in my department to the point I became the go to guy for questions about bugs in other co-worker's coding. All this started by reading, mind you I hate reading in general but even I will acknowledge it takes less time to learn how to do something by reading a well written guide over trial and error.

In other words I've gotten pretty far just by reading and implementing what I've read. This statement is true about this game as well.

As to your comment about a "real" gamer goes out and figures it out on their own, if the game industry listened to you, it would go bankrupt very fast. In 2008 10% of the gamer market hated tutorials and found them unnecessary because they could figure out how to play on their own (this would be the hardcore demographic). No one in the game industry designs for that 10% because 90%is way more money, and that 10% will still likely play your game just sprinting through the tutorials. Now that the money has shifted further into the casual demographic that number is probably around 5% (dunno current numbers as I only consult now-a-days).

The fact is a "real" gamer will read how to play a game over figuring it out because the majority play a game to relax not to run hundreds of tests to figure out how to best play the game.

[Panthera]

Have you ever used an EXP scroll or level synced?

Have you? What's your point?

[Zagen]

Have you? What's your point?

Pretty sure the point was that it on a much smaller scale is the same effect of leeching as it was "free" EXP. Not saying it was a good example I just saw the comparison.

[Panthera]

That's the kind of person that ends up on my blacklist to thinking they can tell people what to do. lol

Those with PLs think they can tell me how my own party is going to be. It's an imposition of will either way, so you would have to black list them as well. You see, in either case, someone is trying to get their own way, there is not difference in that, and you'd have to black list everybody. Surely, you're not arguing for the individual's right to do as they please in team-based MMO, are you? And are you not yourself trying to impose your will upon those still on PS2, and tell them how they are going to play--and that they play your way, or not at all? If I used your logic, I'd have to black list you on forums, which I'm not as yet going to do.

It's not a matter of not needing a PL, it's a matter of expiditing the lvling proccess which in itself has nothing to do with the other content of the game that makes it worth playing.

I would refer you to the raise the abyssea cap to 75 for the discussion of leveling up as an inherent part of an RPG.

[Tokiro]

Those with PLs think they can tell me how my own party is going to be. It's an imposition of will either way, so you would have to black list them as well. You see, in either case, someone is trying to get their own way, there is not difference in that, and you'd have to black list everybody. Surely, you're not arguing for the individual's right to do as they please in team-based MMO, are you? And are you not yourself trying to impose your will upon those still on PS2, and tell them how they are going to play--and that they play your way, or not at all? If I used your logic, I'd have to black list you on forums, which I'm not as yet going to do.



I would refer you to the raise the abyssea cap to 75 for the discussion of leveling up as an inherent part of an RPG.

Although I don't care whether people leech or not, I personally don't do it just because I had such a great time levelling the hard way. My first job was DRG. At that time, it was nigh on impossible to get a PT invite as a DRG and as a taru DRG, well, let's just say I know every inch of Jeuno... I started building parties of my own and ended up going to 75 with my own parties except for two. It is a grind if you don't like the process, but I enjoyed trying to find the best gear for each level and spending (too much) gil on things I would only use for 5 or so levels. That was fun. It doesn't mean I can't appreciate getting jobs up to 90 in a matter of days, but I like the grind. My linkshell was also really into going out in small parties to get as much EXP as possible with the weirdest job mix. That was fun, too.
I also have to support Panthera in the PL stakes. I never took a PL with me and never allowed one to help. No one ever blacklisted me (as far as I know) and no one complained if I refused the help. I think it's great that everyone has a different experience in this game and I am happy for anyone who enjoys playing. If you ask someone, though, whether they think leeching is good or bad and that person says bad, hey, you asked, right? Don't judge others by your own standards, either. Just because you would blacklist an anti-PL player doesn't mean everyone would. Your friends would maybe do that, but that's just a case of birds of a feather...

[Horadrim]

You should add to your list:

8) How many of the games storylines have you completed?

Storyline (What's been completed or done)

-3 Nation Rank (Windy, Sandy)

-3 Nation Quest (WotG) (Sandy)

-Zilart (Done)
Apocalypse Nigh (Done)
-CoP (Done)

ToAU (Done)

WotG (Done)

Abyssea (Done) (Defeated Shinryu) (Don't have Atma of the savior)

ACP (Done)

AMKD (Done)

ASA (haven't finished yet)

Story completion isn't a red-badge of courage either. I spent 7 years playing this game, and between having to restart on a regular basis, dealing with shitty linkshells, hopping servers to play with long-time friends, and generally just never meeting reliable people who actually needed to get things done, I've yet to be able to finish any of the major story lines.

I can remember the months I wasted trying to get promies done -- which accounted for a large chunk of time I neglected leveling. When I ended my stint with the game I had over 5,000k EXP with SCH and PUP 75 and BLU72. Now since Abyssea came out, I have BLM90, SCH82, PUP82, and BLU76. Leveling should have never been as stupidly time consuming as it was. As you all can probably attest to: hitting level 75 was not proof of any degree of skill, you constantly had know-it-all idiots ruining dynamis and Einherjar runs at level 75, and fools who constantly missed Assault meeting times.

Abyssea/Leeching is having no more ill-effects on the game and its quality of player than any of the nonsensical idiocy and noobism we suffered under back in the "good old days."

The difference now is you can get your leveling done quick and focus on finding competent allies.

Although I don't care whether people leech or not, I personally don't do it just because I had such a great time levelling the hard way. My first job was DRG. At that time, it was nigh on impossible to get a PT invite as a DRG and as a taru DRG, well, let's just say I know every inch of Jeuno... I started building parties of my own and ended up going to 75 with my own parties except for two. It is a grind if you don't like the process, but I enjoyed trying to find the best gear for each level and spending (too much) gil on things I would only use for 5 or so levels. That was fun. It doesn't mean I can't appreciate getting jobs up to 90 in a matter of days, but I like the grind. My linkshell was also really into going out in small parties to get as much EXP as possible with the weirdest job mix. That was fun, too.
I also have to support Panthera in the PL stakes. I never took a PL with me and never allowed one to help. No one ever blacklisted me (as far as I know) and no one complained if I refused the help. I think it's great that everyone has a different experience in this game and I am happy for anyone who enjoys playing. If you ask someone, though, whether they think leeching is good or bad and that person says bad, hey, you asked, right? Don't judge others by your own standards, either. Just because you would blacklist an anti-PL player doesn't mean everyone would. Your friends would maybe do that, but that's just a case of birds of a feather...

I can attest to missing some of the elements of old school leveling -- but no one does it anymore. Trying to pretend like its the same just cheapens the memory of how good it was at times, to me, and reminds you of how bad it could get when you run into people who are only doing it because they don't know better.

My only complaint with this argument, because I'm willing to leech my jobs and don't really care beyond that, is the silly stigma people put on players who leech or otherwise don't know what thing or another about a job they're playing. Leveling has never. NEVER taught you 100% of what you needed to know to do endgame content, yet for as long as I remember, 80% of the elistists you run into demanded you have experience or gtfo. The problem has never been leveling too quickly (Which people claimed was lowering the quality of player as early bad as the discovery of bird parties and TP/Mana burns...) -- its almost always been how unwilling people are to actually TEACH people who want to learn how to do things better without being assholes in the process.

I don't know how many times I get stupidly sarcastic responses ("Don't die.") when asking "Any specific instructions or things I should know for this NM?" in Abyssea, only to have people throw a shitfit if I cast a nuke at the wrong time and have the mob do a TP move and absorb the spell. Didn't I ask if there was anything I should know? How is it my fault that you decided to be a jerk instead of give me a straight answer about a mob I know nothing about? (Side note, this is an example from my early experiences with Abyssea, before I really knew how anything worked.)

Much of my experience with endgame over the years as been to that effect -- and there's more wrong with that than there will ever be with leeching.

[Tokiro]

I can attest to missing some of the elements of old school leveling -- but no one does it anymore. Trying to pretend like its the same just cheapens the memory of how good it was at times, to me, and reminds you of how bad it could get when you run into people who are only doing it because they don't know better.

My only complaint with this argument, because I'm willing to leech my jobs and don't really care beyond that, is the silly stigma people put on players who leech or otherwise don't know what thing or another about a job they're playing. Leveling has never. NEVER taught you 100% of what you needed to know to do endgame content, yet for as long as I remember, 80% of the elistists you run into demanded you have experience or gtfo. The problem has never been leveling too quickly (Which people claimed was lowering the quality of player as early bad as the discovery of bird parties and TP/Mana burns...) -- its almost always been how unwilling people are to actually TEACH people who want to learn how to do things better without being assholes in the process.

I don't know how many times I get stupidly sarcastic responses ("Don't die.") when asking "Any specific instructions or things I should know for this NM?" in Abyssea, only to have people throw a shitfit if I cast a nuke at the wrong time and have the mob do a TP move and absorb the spell. Didn't I ask if there was anything I should know? How is it my fault that you decided to be a jerk instead of give me a straight answer about a mob I know nothing about? (Side note, this is an example from my early experiences with Abyssea, before I really knew how anything worked.)

Much of my experience with endgame over the years as been to that effect -- and there's more wrong with that than there will ever be with leeching.

As I said in my post, I don't despise people who leech, I just don't like doing it personally because I enjoy the grind. So many people complained about the levelling process and the huge amounts of EXP necessary to level that it was made more and more easy to get to 75 and now 90. That changed the game. People don't do it now because they don't have to. It's become a non-option because no one will do it. Does that mean that people who do are doing it because they don't know any better? I take umbrance with that comment. They probably do know 'better' but think that it is not necessarily 'better'. A lot of people see leveling as just that. The name shows what people think of it. It is a grind that has to be done to reach a level. Many others, including myself, don't see it that way. I can go to Abyssea, I can leech, but that way I don't get to do a lot of the stuff I do when I'm in a normal party. I like that stuff. Getting crap EXP with a bunch of weirdos whose only goal is not to wipe too much I don't see leveling as leveling, I see it as part of the game and I like it. I make no apologies for that. And on this forum, where the OP was 'What do you think?' we, the non-leechers, are allowed to show a different perspective. I would go for a crappy little party with Panthera and you would leech. So what? Both of us win, right? I just don't get to the levels you do so quickly. And I'm very happy with it being that way because that's what it's all about.
As for the stuff about stigma, it goes both ways. You get people who have old-schooled all their jobs dissing those who haven't, and you get people who diss old-school for not knowing about endgame. Unfortunately, your comments about not learning about endgame through leveling really isn't the point. If someone levels from 30~90 in a week, of course they can go into endgame battles and do an awesome job. But that's usually all they do. That's their goal. It's not mine (at least not entirely) and I think non-leechers are merely saying that endgame is not the be all and end all of FFXI. Nothing more, nothing less. We can all quote morons from past experiences who crapped on us (I got kicked from a party in Qufim for lotting on a Carbuncle ruby because 'I only started this game to get summoner, and I'm not giving it up for a turd like you!' <kick>). I don't think you believe non-leechers are all anti-leechers, just as I don't think you're an endgame queen (correct me if I'm wrong ). We just see things differently and that's OK.

[Horadrim]

[QUOTE=Tokiro;154690]

I think you took my statement about "knowing better" too literally. It was just a figure of speech.

If I had people worth leveling with and jobs I actually liked to level, I'd probably do it the old school way -- but all of the jobs I used to want to level (Except DRG) are already 70+.

The bit about the endgame stuff is the reoccurring argument I see against leeching. "These noobs refuse to learn the job and ruin everything. Leveling is too fast to make good players now." Is something I hear constantly from people who are, themselves, in Abyssea as they type the message out. I just don't see why any of this is an issue to people. Leech, don't leech, as long as you educate your fellow gamers politely it doesn't matter how they got to level 90.

[Octaviane]

Rosina: Sounds to me like you are another Starcade, if not Starcade under another name. According to you, everyone is a cheat no matter what they are doing and you are beginning to introduce some not so nice language into your posts. We, and you too are entitled to our various opinions. Remember, you do not pay for others to play. Some people here deserve a /slap, others a thumbs up, but there is no need to start raging about something you can't change. Have the grace please to accept that which you cannot change, otherwise, play the game in whichever manner you see fit or leave.