New SMN JA "Possession" Empowering the "Melee SMN"

[Leonlionheart]

You're not even in my league little guy. As a skilled support/DD SMN, I'm competing against other SMNs and support roles. As a SMN/SAM, you think you're competing against other SMNs as well as real DDS, when in reality all you're competing for is the dry seat on the short bus.

Someone just got told.

[Tagrineth]

But somehow lolworthy melee is?

Actually the real funny thing is he has this idea that people actually use smn/rdm. Wat.

[Leonlionheart]

Actually the real funny thing is he has this idea that people actually use smn/rdm. Wat.

I told him SMN/RDM never run out of MP. That's where he got the idea.

Although I never personally use /RDM, it's either /SCH (AoE Stoneskin w/o blood pact? K.) or, and this is most common, /WHM. I can see the merits of /RDM though. Dispel is a proc that many people look over most of the time.

[Korpg]

Ok, lets see. With 100% TP without meleeing outside of Abyssea, your avatar will have costed you...1400 mp to keep out. That is 14 mp per tick perp cost times 100. That 14 mp per tick perp cost is how much your avatar costs at 90 (16 perp) minus the 2 mp Refresh you get from traits. You have no Refresh gear, nor do you have any perp gear, because that stands in the way of your haste, accuracy, and attack. My gear, during that same time, would have netted me an extra 520 MP. Thats 6 MP per tick refresh from the spell, gear, and perp cost down to +1 back, and the +2 horn I use anyway, minus the cost of casting Refresh on myself twice. We are looking at a net difference of 1920 mp between the two. And we haven't even melee'd yet.

OMG guys, a 9 hit build! So average WAR melee can get TP in 9.5 hits, an average SMN melee outside of abyssea can get TP in 13 hits. Inside abyssea, 12 hits. Including Hasso. Got to love the "in terms of accuracy, I have haste, double attack and such." You still wiff a lot more than a WAR. So, lets say 12 swings per 100% TP, that is 36 swings for 300% TP, assuming the 3.38 seconds per swing, it takes you a little over 2 minutes (121.68) to get to 300% TP. But wait, lets add the Regain earring back on. 121.68/3 is 40.56, so lets give that TP for free to Dallas. He needs 259.44 TP to get to 300. 259.44/3.38 = 77 seconds. So, between 77 seconds to 122 seconds is what it takes to get to 300% TP, so lets go to the middle and say...wow, 100 seconds even.

100 seconds for Dallas to get to 300% TP. That is 33 ticks. That is 462 MP wasted on having an avatar out by itself.

Include 4 BPs (for simplicity sake, lets assume all BPs are Predator Claws and Whispering Wind and no Blood Boons) the cost increases by 566 MP. Including the MP cost to keep the avatar out, that is 1028 MP used up.

Now, lets include /RDM to the picture. In 100 seconds I get 158 MP back (6 * 33)-40. Assuming the usage of BPs, I use a total of 408 MP. Not bad. I haven't even used Elemental Siphon yet, haven't even needed it either. 408 MP is about 1/3 of my MP total, so that means I can hold out on using Convert alone for 7 minutes. Sure, I won't ride all the way to back-to-back Converts, but I don't need to use Elemental Siphon more than once between Converts. Which is basically unlimited MP for /RDM too. No Refresh atmas needed.

Dallas, on the other hand, has to melee to keep the avatar out. He uses up 1028 MP just to get 300% TP. Now, lets hope he doesn't get killed by AoE there, cause then he won't be able to keep up the pressure.

Plus, we have that new ability that increase cost to BP sooner. That would mean that Dallas will not be able to get to 300% TP before running out of MP, because that new ability hurts him twice: added cost and added number of BPs.

And I was very generous with giving Dallas 100% TP in 12 hits. Also, no refresh atmas needed to keep MP up.

[Korpg]

Actually the real funny thing is he has this idea that people actually use smn/rdm. Wat.

I use /RDM for soloing purposes, which is basically the only time I bring out SMN anyway.

Why should I bring SMN to a party if we are not pet burning stuff, and only a few mobs (inside and outside abyssea) would need to be pet burned period (AoEs are too damaging or have really bad, undispelable effects, while the drops don't justify a brew). If something needs killing, I bring out my WAR to 95% of the stuff out there.

[Dallas]

Ok, lets see. With 100% TP without meleeing outside of Abyssea, your avatar will have costed you...1400 mp to keep out. That is 14 mp per tick perp cost times 100.

14 perp cost, less Nash hands, less evoker's ring, less Auto-Refresh 2 = 10 perp cost = 20% melee accuracy. That's why my post exists, to educate you. Since your first assumption was completely ignorant of SMN, I will assume the rest says something about WAR pwning BLM.

[Leonlionheart]

It should only take him 8 hits to get 100% actually. Assuming Goading+Rajas+Brutal+White Tathlum+/SAM. 10 w/o all that. Also, it should take him 3.48s per swing, assuming he's at least pulling off 22% Haste, which isn't 23 because of Goading instead of Ninurta's.

All that means, is that instead of 100 seconds to 300%, its 83.52.

*Assuming Hastega and Hasso

[Dallas]

It should only take him 8 hits to get 100% actually. Assuming Goading+Rajas+Brutal+White Tathlum+/SAM. 10 w/o all that. Also, it should take him 3.48s per swing, assuming he's at least pulling off 22% Haste, which isn't 23 because of Goading instead of Ninurta's.

All that means, is that instead of 100 seconds to 300%, its 83.52.

*Assuming Hastega and Hasso

I use Tern set instead of Goading for 23% Haste. 3.38 seconds per swing. If you convert Meditate and regain earring into store TP (it's messy if you don't), I think I am at 14.6 effective TP per hit (assuming 100% accuracy). 21 hits to 300% TP. Add in 7% DA, and I come up with 66.3 seconds to reach 300% TP. In perp costs terms, I spend 220 MP to get 1080 MP.

I think Arrabbiata is the new best food for SMN outside of Abyssea, and would knock another 3.1 seconds off.

Even less time needed in Abyssea. (Needless to say, this is overkill.)

BTW: Goading is faster to 300% by 1.3 seconds. Tern Set generates 2% more melee damage and doesn't have +enmity(bad). I wouldn't switch over to Goading until I need more MP... unlikely.

And I was very generous with giving Dallas 100% TP in 12 hits.

Maybe he meant "12 swings?"

[Leonlionheart]

I use Tern set instead of Goading for 23% Haste. 3.38 seconds per swing. If you convert Meditate and regain earring into store TP (it's messy if you don't), I think I am at 14.6 effective TP per hit (assuming 100% accuracy). 21 hits to 300% TP. Add in 7% DA, and I come up with 66.3 seconds to reach 300% TP. In perp costs terms, I spend 220 MP to get 1080 MP.

I think Arrabbiata is the new best food for SMN outside of Abyssea, and would knock another 3.1 seconds off.

Even less time needed in Abyssea. (Needless to say, this is overkill.)

BTW: Goading is faster to 300% by 1.3 seconds. Tern Set generates 2% more melee damage and doesn't have +enmity(bad). I wouldn't switch over to Goading until I need more MP... unlikely.



Maybe he meant "12 swings?"

With Goading you wouldn't have to gimp your food with Arrabbiata, as Red Curry Buns have a much higher attack cap, and you need all you can get.

You also lose out on 8 attack+ 1% DA(Aesir Mantle), and either 10 accuracy, or 5% Crit Rate (I think that the two best options for neck slot would be fully charged Rancor Collar or PCC)

If you had VV and used Rose Strap, since you are probably never, ever, ever going to melee outside abyssea, you could knock down 8 hits to 6 hits with regain moonshade, however, there is a large margin of error since you should be using VV+RR+Apoc, meaning TA and DA will make your 6 hit a 7 or 8 hit. Not that it matters, since your ws does 0 damage, and is only there for maintaining MP. Also, having March would ruin regain making it a for sure 7 hit.

However this is all assuming you keep 1 avatar out for the entire time you are engaged, SEVERELY reducing the utility of SMN. This option (melee SMN) only slightly adds melee DMG at the cost of higher risk, in which case the slot would be better filled by WAR DRG SAM MNK DNC THF (Basically any job meant to get up close) by a long shot.

That's why SMN melee will always be as much of a toy as a ridill is.

Expensive
"Fun"
Useless

[Dallas]

With Goading you wouldn't have to gimp your food with Arrabbiata, as Red Curry Buns have a much higher attack cap, and you need all you can get.

You also lose out on 8 attack+ 1% DA(Aesir Mantle), and either 10 accuracy, or 5% Crit Rate (I think that the two best options for neck slot would be fully charged Rancor Collar or PCC)

If you had VV and used Rose Strap, since you are probably never, ever, ever going to melee outside abyssea, you could knock down 8 hits to 6 hits with regain moonshade, however, there is a large margin of error since you should be using VV+RR+Apoc, meaning TA and DA will make your 6 hit a 7 or 8 hit. Not that it matters, since your ws does 0 damage, and is only there for maintaining MP. Also, having March would ruin regain making it a for sure 7 hit.

However this is all assuming you keep 1 avatar out for the entire time you are engaged, SEVERELY reducing the utility of SMN. This option (melee SMN) only slightly adds melee DMG at the cost of higher risk, in which case the slot would be better filled by WAR DRG SAM MNK DNC THF (Basically any job meant to get up close) by a long shot.

That's why SMN melee will always be as much of a toy as a ridill is.

Expensive
"Fun"
Useless

Funny, I've been meleeing for 6 years. Abyssea hasn't been around that long. I spent the last 2 weeks playing outside of Abyssea, meleeing the whole time. It's all safe, except for some event that no one wants gear from.

You are right, I could spend millions on the Rancor Collar. I'm cheap. I'll wait for it to come down in price. The choice is between accuracy (usually capped) and 1% DA, or 1% Haste. The latter wins.

Now then, here's the thing you are missing: there is no benefit to using Myrkr at 100% TP. In fact, tests were showing that L3 aftermath had a higher proc rate than L1 aftermath. Call me superstitious, but the test was convincing enough for me. 300% only. Always. 3*0 is no better than 1*0.

Forget the X-hit builds, I don't need them. Fewer WS means less delay anyway. As for food, SMN base attack isn't high enough to warrant Red Curry Buns. The HP is MUCH higher, and the 5 store TP is much more useful than the extra 0.5% attack (at most, 3 more attack).

As for damage dealt, you are approaching the dangerously deep end of the pool. The numbers are so high that they can't be measured solo. The job is broken without additional hate tools. Many anecdotes, no numbers.