Screwed again: Proposed THF job adjustments.

[Zyla420]

^this

really sick of ppl thinking that TH is so powerful that it completely justifies the rest of the job being mediocre.

[Laphine]

I like these ideas And i'm not losing them to page spam >:O

You know, How about improvements that boost the aspects of the job you think need improving?

Reduce Steal Timer down to 1 minute timer. Have it inflict Damage, Modded by DEX, Similar to Jumps, and grant TP.

Reduce Despoil to 1 minute, and remove its shared timer, Also give Despoil 100% Chance to inflict an Ailment, Regardless of rather or not an item was stolen: Also add sub-category for it.
*Despoil: Head - Induces head related Ailments. Silence/Amnesia/Blind/M.Acc Down/M.atk down
*Despoil: Body - Induces Body related Ailments. Paralysis/Slow/Attack Down/Defense down
*Depoils: Legs - Induces Leg related Ailments. Gravity/Evasion Down/Accuracy down

This gives you some control over which ailment to inflict. Could even go more indepth.

Mug*
Reduce mug to 2min~3min timer or less. Add "Aura Steal" to mug. Allow Mugging of Cruor.
Allow mug to deal damage, Modded by your DEX, and grant TP. Similar to jumps.

Edit:

New Job ability: (Both Similar to Feint)

Set up
*Enfeebling Magic Cast on the enemy after this JA is activated will gain a Boost in potency.
*3min Recast
*1min duration (or until next hit lands)
*25% boost to enfeebling magic potency/duration

Treachery
*Your next hit will increase the amount of Damage the Enemy takes
*5min Recast
*1min Duration (Or until you land a hit)
*Lasts 3 minutes.
*Enemy takes 10% more damage across the board.

exposure
*Your next hit will decrease the enemies critical hit evasion
*3min recast
*1min Duration (or until next hit is landed)
*Lasts 2 minutes
*Decreases Their Crit.Evasion by 15%

disperse
*Sheds 25% of your current Enmity.
*1min recast
*Useful to use with Collaborator. Allows THF to truly control Enmity.

Frame
*Grants 25% of your enmity to a party member
*1min recast
*Shares timer with Disperse
*Can only be used on someone who has hate on current enemy (I.E you couldn't use it on someone who hasn't acted on the mob, thus MPKing them technically)

I like them too! so i'm copying them as well! lol

But man you are creative, i wish you were a dev lol.

[Nynja]

I have a question Draylo...your're 3boxing an empryian...what would finish to the lv85 version fastest (lv90 is more difficult to compare since some are just cleave and some are putting your balls in a vice):
Group 1: NIN WAR WHM for KI's, then changing to THF MNK WHM for killing NM's
Group 2: NIN WAR/thf WHM for KI's, then kill NM with the TH3 /thf (Take Dread atma)

[Draylo]

WAR THF whm. You lose three procs but you can just kill it fast.

[Draylo]

^this

really sick of ppl thinking that TH is so powerful that it completely justifies the rest of the job being mediocre.

Seriously... I don't even. I use THF all the damn time lol, how is it mediocre. Especially in Abyssea, you people act as if 90% of the game is outside of Abyssea, hint: its not. You don't even know what they are doing.

[Draylo]

Thats awesome utility, really...you just need a mule because at the rate TH goes up, your best bet is to /ra with TH/AA/RP+2 equipped and then afk.

Not really, I proc plenty of times to TH7~9 in almost every fight.

[Alukat]

You know, How about improvements that boost the aspects of the job you think need improving?

Reduce Steal Timer down to 1 minute timer. Have it inflict Damage, Modded by DEX, Similar to Jumps, and grant TP.

Reduce Despoil to 1 minute, and remove its shared timer, Also give Despoil 100% Chance to inflict an Ailment, Regardless of rather or not an item was stolen: Also add sub-category for it.
*Despoil: Head - Induces head related Ailments. Silence/Amnesia/Blind/M.Acc Down/M.atk down
*Despoil: Body - Induces Body related Ailments. Paralysis/Slow/Attack Down/Defense down
*Depoils: Legs - Induces Leg related Ailments. Gravity/Evasion Down/Accuracy down

This gives you some control over which ailment to inflict. Could even go more indepth.

Mug*
Reduce mug to 2min~3min timer or less. Add "Aura Steal" to mug. Allow Mugging of Cruor.
Allow mug to deal damage, Modded by your DEX, and grant TP. Similar to jumps.

Edit:

New Job ability: (Both Similar to Feint)

Set up
*Enfeebling Magic Cast on the enemy after this JA is activated will gain a Boost in potency.
*3min Recast
*1min duration (or until next hit lands)
*25% boost to enfeebling magic potency/duration

Treachery
*Your next hit will increase the amount of Damage the Enemy takes
*5min Recast
*1min Duration (Or until you land a hit)
*Lasts 3 minutes.
*Enemy takes 10% more damage across the board.

exposure
*Your next hit will decrease the enemies critical hit evasion
*3min recast
*1min Duration (or until next hit is landed)
*Lasts 2 minutes
*Decreases Their Crit.Evasion by 15%

disperse
*Sheds 25% of your current Enmity.
*1min recast
*Useful to use with Collaborator. Allows THF to truly control Enmity.

Frame
*Grants 25% of your enmity to a party member
*1min recast
*Shares timer with Disperse
*Can only be used on someone who has hate on current enemy (I.E you couldn't use it on someone who hasn't acted on the mob, thus MPKing them technically)

nice ideas

[Nynja]

WAR THF whm. You lose three procs but you can just kill it fast.

So you waste time killing a NM you wont get KI from, awesome.

Pop Olphanim...darkness weakness...ED fails, SoD fails....attempt to deaggro to change weakness, gets stolen, waste 15 minutes.

[Yugl]

THF should have a sideline utility rather than a melee focus. Logically, you're either participating in events for loot or XP. The latter has become irrelevant with the introduction of Abyssea. The former only sees two instances that undermine THF's utility (Proc!! situations and coffers/NPCs). Abyssea content that excludes THF (Hint: Not Empyrean Farming) is dwindling. Furthermore, the exclusiveness of proc!!s is not limited to THF, but to many DDs as well. Hence, it is not an issue regarding THF, it is an issue regarding the general mechanics.

BCNMs (And box type events in general) tend to be all inclusive (Meaning, what you bring doesn't matter if your general set up is correct) or exclusive. Everyone tends to suffer in the latter scenario. The former scenario allows for THFs. Even in events such as VW the exclusiveness is not limited to THFs alone.

In all other cases, the most optimum set up is 1x THF to the extent that victory is assured safely and in a timely manner because the goal is loot, not necessarily doing XXXX DMG WS. Anything else is a necessary condition for meeting one of those two criteria. This means other classes are inferior with respect to THF from the outset. Of course, it is rarely the case that one THF alone can safely, and in a timely manner, assure victory. Consequently, we begin to add to this configuration. For all non-WAR DDs, it appears as if their role as physical DD will gradually become suboptimal. For all non-BLM nukers, it appears as if their role will remain suboptimal (Unless SE fixes SCH). For all non-WHM healers, it appears as if their role will remain suboptimal.

Given this scenario, you have to realistically ask to what extent THF's DD potential can remain in balance with further enhancements. For DRG, DRK, and SAM, their only PT role is DD and WAR has monopolized that position. Given this reality, there's not much room for improvement. If THF's damage is slightly less than the other DDs, then is there really going to be a gap between success/speed? If not, then why not just maintain a THF over other DDs and reduce the number of people you have to bring? If you already have a THF, then why not optimize with the best DD (WAR)? That's the problem that most of you fail to recognize. SE has to maintain a gap between THF's DD and suboptimal DD in order to maintain balance.

Ideally, DRG, WAR, MNK, DRK, SAM, NIN, PUP, and so forth will equal offensive and defensive capabilities. However, even if that were the case, you would still need to undermine THF's DD potential. This would ultimately mean THF remains the worst DD and the complaining you see here will continue.

A quick summary before continuing:
* Non-Loot events undermine THF, but they are insignificant because...
1. Abyssea content that excludes THF is dwindling
2. Abyssea Proc!!s exclude many classes, not just THFs
3. BCNMs tend to favor a niche selection of classes or allow for any class to participate

* When drops are concerned, THF is central and all other additions are simply necessities to assure victory
* You need a gap that is enough to not default to THF over other DDs when optimizing
* Other melee DDs tend to be suboptimal to WAR and SE seems to intentionally maintain this balance; hence, THF would need to be less than suboptimal so as to not drive other DDs out of business
* If other melee DDs evened out, maintaining the gap would mean THF defaults to the worst DD and complaining will continue

So when you combine this information, to the extent that TH remains relevant to obtaining gear, THF melee potential must remain less than suboptimal and this is not fixed by making all other melee DDs equal. Hence, it is better to siphon THF towards another form a utility. I doubt enmity is the best direction, but melee certainly is not the path for THF.

[Laphine]

The main issue and the reason i think THF is broken is because it revolves around a passive trait. A player as THF is completely unnecessary. It's wasted resource. This player would be better off being something that can contribute to the success of the effort at hand. And that's how it always went anyway. A THF would only be assigned if the jobs that mattered were already defined. And really, this is simply just wrong...

When SE implemented the TH boosts, it was certainly a step in the right direction. From then on we kinda gained a reason to actually do something, not simply /ra and afk. Still, these boosts probably only do counter the access to TH2 that everyone can get now. After all, the marginal gain from going from TH2 to TH3 is smaller than TH1 to TH2.

An overhaul to TH is certainly the best gift we can get. This is why i really loved the idea Byrth proposed somewhere back in this thread. If TH were to become proportional to our performance, it would actually matter being a good THF. LSs would go after their best THF, not some gimp ass that luckily has TH6. The concept of TH mule would drop dead too.

Of course, when we tie TH to the THF damage like he proposed, it makes no sense that we don't get a DD boost lol.