ATTN: Dev/Comm. Rep -Relic & Mythic Weapons Reborn {Yes, Please}- レリックとミシックの強化

[wish12oz]

You come across as if you think relics don't need adjusting and you are basing it off something I and most others don't accept as entirely true. No, relics aren't terrible, but when you spend months or years or 100s of millions of gil on something you don't expect it to be trumped by something easier to obtain even if it's only by a little. As a whole Emps are simply better than the whole of relics and they will stay that way if relics don't get adjusted. Post abyssea world is not gonna change that. The gap may lessen but emps will still be an overall better set of weapons.

If you aren't implying that relics don't need adjustment then we can stop debating right now.

Im saying relics dont need adjusted yet, because the lvl cap is not 99 yet, and people need to stfu about it and how all empyreans destroy relics, because they dont. Only 5 empyreans outparse their relic counterparts, and of those 5 empyreans 4 can be beaten by their relic/mythic counterparts under the right circustances, and the relics and empyreans offer things besides just doing damage, so it doesn't matter that they do less damage on WEAK mobs.

[Atomic_Skull]

Im saying relics dont need adjusted yet, because the lvl cap is not 99 yet, and people need to stfu about it and how all empyreans destroy relics, because they dont. Only 5 empyreans outparse their relic counterparts, and of those 5 empyreans 4 can be beaten by their relic/mythic counterparts under the right circustances, and the relics and empyreans offer things besides just doing damage, so it doesn't matter that they do less damage on WEAK mobs.

So are you going tell me how Ragnarok is better than Caladbolg?

[Staren]

I think the idea's completely on the wrong track here. We should be holding SE accountable to make relics and mythics on the same level of acquisition as empyreans. Letting them think we'll spend years to complete any one item at this point in the game is ridiculous and they need to hear it or we'll keep getting more notices from the devs saying "After further review of these weapons we still feel like we should get 3 years of your life in return for a mythic, I mean its only fair right?" When ls's are building empyreans for every melee char in their ls in a month. We have to spend 3 years to get our whm (since SE royally bent them over for relics and empyreans) a mythic weapon. SE the real issue here is your inability to gauge the time involved in the process for the other two weapons. I'm not saying make them so easy as you have empyrean weapons but at least make them reasonable. The balance issue isnt in effects its in acquisition.

[Bumbeen]

So are you going tell me how Ragnarok is better than Caladbolg?

What's funny is that ragnarok IS IN FACT better than caladbolg hahaha

[wish12oz]

What's funny is that ragnarok IS IN FACT better than caladbolg hahaha

I was just gonna say: "Who cares, use Apoc for DRK relic." But your way is funny too.

EDIT: After looking up torcleaver and scourge, and calabolg and ragnarok. I'd say Ragnarok is almost definately better all the time, it kinda depends on just how much the critical hit rate increase is at 90, but Im sure the 'Increase rate of critical hits IV' combined with the ODD is enough to make it melee better, it was +15% crit rate at lvl 1 afterall. If someone can tell me what it is at lvl 4 that would be helpful. The WS's are 2 40% mods with 3ftp and +25% damage compared to 60% and 4.75, and both are poopy modifiers for WSC, so Id be willing to bet they come within 5% damage of each other under similar circumstances but that scourge pulls ahead.

EDIT2: Felt like I should explain the WS thing.
(40+40)*3*1.25=300
60*4.75=285
So basically, if you had the same amount of STR/Base damage/WSC/Attack for each WS, Scourge would pull ahead by a bit.

EDIT3: Might as well talk about ODD and base damage too. Ragnarok has only slightly better base damage, so we'll ignore it. If you assume youre using the same amount of attack/haste and have the same base damage with each weapon, (which you basically will, 90 rag is 1? base damage higher) then they do the same amount of damage per hit, so it comes down to the aftermath and ODD procs and how much attack you have compared to mob defense and your acc.

ODD is just 2x damage
Adding a critical hit is an increase of about 1.5x to 2x, depending on your attack compared to mob def. All a crit does is add 1 to pdif.

So if we count from the low end, and crits only give 1.5 extra damage, then you need 3 of them for every 2 ODDs on Cala to stay even. 30% ODD is what Cala will have (WS at 100 tp) Rag has 10% ODD naturally, so it need to make up enough in crit hits to account for the other 20% cala is gaining.

At 3 to 2 that means Rag would need to get a 30% crit rate increase to stay on par meleeing against Cala. Tier 1 crit rate aftermath is 15%, if its 5% per lvl, which doesnt seem to far fetched to me, then its there. So if someone can tell us what Cala aftermath at lvl 90 is, we'd know if it comes out ahead just meleeing when you have capped attack.

If you have low attack, and crits double damage, then Rag only needs 20% Crit rate to break even with Cala. Which is an increase of only 1.3% per tier, which just kinda looks to low to me, and I'd bet its higher then that. So it's a safe bet Rag is always better when attack is low.

And well, it seems fairly obvious that if your acc is not capped, Rag is definitely the superior option since it can add as much as 17% hit rate. And I dunno about your DRK, but mine doesn't have much if any ACC gear for TPing.

EDIT4: Ragnarok ODD is actually 2.5x damage, not 2x like empyrean aftermath, so crit rate can actually be a bit lower then I said perviously. And it can fire on WS's unlike empyrean ODD.

So with capped attack youre looking at needing a 27%~ crit rate increase, and at low attack needing a 17%~ crit rate increase for Ragnarok to win. And again, even a 30% increase seems plausible to me, since if I had to guess, I would guess that each increase is somewhere around 5%.

So, who can tell me Ragnaroks crit rate increase at level 90?

Edit5: Didn't really answer you.

So are you going tell me how Ragnarok is better than Caladbolg?

All that needs to happen for ragnarok to be better is to gain 17.5% damage from the acc/crit rate increase it offers. and we know 2 acc = 1% hit rate, or 1% damage, however you want to look at it, and 90 Rag has 35 acc. We also know that at tier 1 of crit rate increase from aftermath you gain 15% crit rate, so it's not hard to imagine when it would pull ahead.
Does that explain it or should I be even more specific?

[Atomic_Skull]

So if we count from the low end, and crits only give 1.5 extra damage, then you need 3 of them for every 2 ODDs on Cala to stay even. 30% ODD is what Cala will have (WS at 100 tp) Rag has 10% ODD naturally, so it need to make up enough in crit hits to account for the other 20% cala is gaining.

ODD on relics is 5% not 10%. I don't know where you got that but it's wrong.

Just as a test I went out with the Ragnaroc DRK as in our LS (both DRK/WAR) and his Scourge was consistently lower than Torcleaver. We both have similar gear. So either your math is wrong, or there's some other modifier on Torcleaver.,

[wish12oz]

Except it's not.

Did you not read my post directly above yours? It actually is.

[Atomic_Skull]

Did you not read my post directly above yours? It actually is.

No, it's really not, I went out and compared it yesterday. Torcleaver consistently out damaged Scourge on a similarly geared DRK/WAR by a significant margin (and we both made sure zerk and last resort were up when we used WS)

I'm beginning to wonder if the emp WS might have a cRatio bonus like Spinning Slash, YGK etc. because their damage seems unnaturally high given the modifiers they have. Torcleaver really shouldn't be doing 2k-3k averaging around 2500 on IT mobs outside abyssea even with zerk and last resort and yet it does.

[Kimble]

Are you eyeballing?

Seems like you are just comparing the WSs to each other and not the weapons themselves.

[wish12oz]

No, it's really not, I went out and compared it yesterday. Torcleaver consistently out damaged Scourge on a similarly geared DRK/WAR by a significant margin (and we both made sure zerk and last resort were up when we used WS)

I'm beginning to wonder if the emp WS might have a cRatio bonus like Spinning Slash, YGK etc. because their damage seems unnaturally high given the modifiers they have. Torcleaver really shouldn't be doing 2k-3k averaging around 2500 on IT mobs outside abyssea even with zerk and last resort and yet it does.

I cant take any of this seriously since you're hiding on a mule. Sorry, but provide some proof or just go away, I already showed using the math scourge is better.