Do Relic, Mythic, and Empyrean staves lack utility?

[Alhanelem]

I only really post to point out Dallas's flaws, still hoping beyond hope that he would finally realize them.

That and to have him respond to make a fool out of himself.

I'm reasonably confident he's just doing stuff like this on purpose. You're not going to make him realize anything, because he's here for entertainment purposes.

[Korpg]

I'm reasonably confident he's just doing stuff like this on purpose. You're not going to make him realize anything, because he's here for entertainment purposes.

Yeah, but without a need for him to reply, he wouldn't....I don't think....

[Sparthos]

TLR; all the relic/emp weapons are built as devices to hit things with, regardless of job; If for any reason in the world you want to hit something with a weapon on your SMN, SCH, or BLM, these are the weapons to do it with. If you want a weapon that enhances the spells/abilities/traits of your job, then the mythic weapon is what you want. If you want to do the best possible damage in the cases where you swing your weapon, even if those cases are very rare, then the relic or empyrean is what you want.

The concept of Relic weapons were to be the ultimate weapon for your class. This was not only from a player perspective but also from a storyline one. How exactly is a staff with no relevant BLM stats other than being a really pretty weapon considered ultimate? Because you can swing slightly better than the guy without the ultimate weapon?

Why aren't the melee Relics mage oriented then? Just in case that WAR wants to sub /WHM and backup heal? You never know.

For a long time SE stated they'd never make anything more powerful than relics because they represented the uppermost echelon of weaponry. When the mage weapons were getting smoked by craftable lvl 51s, the base knew that something was wrong.

What the relic weapons did show is how disconnected SE was from the base upon the creation of these weapons. It isn't like Mjollnir has relevant WHM utility in addition to being the ultimate club. It's just a vanilla club with an inferior weaponskill to the easily acquired Hexa Strike. Developer laziness for failing to adapt the weapon to the overarching playstyle of mages.

Mythics? They might as well be a myth with the numerous layers required to obtain one. Most of the layers being extinct content no one dare touch because Abyssea has thoroughly obliterated it. To top off the compacted crap, you still need 30k Alexandrite that as of now SE claims they aren't going to touch.

[Alhanelem]

The concept of Relic weapons were to be the ultimate weapon for your class.

Wrong. They were designed to be the ultimate damage-dealing weapon of their weapon type.

How exactly is a staff with no relevant BLM stats other than being a really pretty weapon considered ultimate?

Its as ultimate as a staff can get if you want to swing one.

You're missing the point. None, and I repeat NONE, of the relic or empyrean weapons specifically enhance any specific ability of any job. They coincidentally synergize with jobs who primairly deal damage, but they still don't modify any of that job's abilities like an empyrean weapon does.

The Mythic weapons are the weapons built to do what you describe. There is precisely one for every job, and all of them boost some ability, trait or stat that the specific job values. The Relic and Empyrean weapons are NOT job exclusive (The ones that are, are only job exclusive because only that job is skilled in the weapon).

I know the mythics are made out of unobtainium. That's beside the point. They're still the weapons that serve the purpose you envision, not the relics and emps. Those weapons are built to be the best attacking weapons of that weapon type. Not the ultimate <insert job here> weapon.

again: The relic and emp weapons are the best WEAPONs, not the best stat boosters/ability enhancers. Whether you like it or not, the relic and empyrean staves are essentially the only good weapons of their type, barring a few of the other magian weapons; this should not be taken away from those who want it, and rather they should do another set of "ultimate weapons" that are more like the Mythics but not made out of unobtainium.

How would you like it if something you worked hard for, for a reason, was suddenly transformed into something that served a completely different purpose than what you originally obtained it for?

[Cream_Soda]

even if those cases are very rare, then the relic or empyrean is what you want.

Not alllllways the case. There was a time where standard weapons would outperform particular relics (and mythics; also can think of a few examples where that is still the case). Emps on the other hand, I can't think of any examples.

[Byrth]

Well, Ryunohige curb-stomps Rhongo. OAT Polearm may curb-stomp Rhongo outside Abyssea too, idk.

Scythe also sucks pretty badly. I'd be unsurprised if OAT is better outside Abyssea.

[Greatguardian]

Not alllllways the case. There was a time where standard weapons would outperform particular relics (and mythics; also can think of a few examples where that is still the case). Emps on the other hand, I can't think of any examples.

Er, pretty much this. With the advent of Empyreans, most people have forgotten than the majority of Relics were either complete trash or were within 1-2% of AH-able/Easily obtained alternatives to begin with.

It's why all the "Fix Relics" threads tend to just not make any sense to me. I mean, sure, Relics are "supposed" to be ultimate weapons. But who actually made one under the impression that it would absolutely change the game for them? There are maybe like 2 actual weapons that do that (Amanomurakumo, Apocalypse). Gjallarhorn was the only real game-breaking Relic. Even Aegis was woefully overestimated due to placebo error (Did not have enhanced block rate or block rate cap, only really served as a higher Def shield and Inventory+5-7 on MDT armor).

Spharai was only ever barely ahead of Destroyers. Excalibur was trash unless you actually used Turtle PLDs on things. Guttler was trash. Claustrum was trash. Mjollnir was trash for all intents and purposes outside of dicking around solo. Bravura was "the best", but never by much and Metatron was always crap. Ragnarok was trash. Kikoku was trash. Gungnir was trash. Mandau was decent. Not game-breaking, but it was a solid improvement, I'll give it that.

So you have a total of 3 relic weapons and 1 utility relic that didn't suck? Pretty awesome ultimate weapons right there.

Mythics are utility-weapons, and some of them are pretty badass.

Empyreans are what Relics should have been years ago.

Edit: Forgot Bow/Gun. Those were actually pretty decent, but mainly for their Enmity reducing WS properties rather than by any merit of the weapons themselves.

[Sparthos]

Wrong. They were designed to be the ultimate damage-dealing weapon of their weapon type.

Except all the relics aren't designed to damage?

@75
Amanomurakumo = Ultimate GKT.
Yoichinoyumi = Ultimate Bow.
Aegis = Ultimate Shield
Gjallahorn = Ultimate Horn.

What do these four items have in common? They represented the upper echelon of gear for the classes that could use them. The GKT made SAM do it's job better, Bow gave RNG the ability to better control hate through a weaponskill, Aegis made PLD a harder target to kill and GHorn made BRD songs more effective.

The weapons were designed to be the best weapon for the slot up until SE changed gears with Abyssea. SE had a vision and it failed utterly with mage relics.

Its as ultimate as a staff can get if you want to swing one.

Devs designed the mage classes, know the gear/skill limitations set that make it impractical to melee on anything worthwhile (worse when these weapons were released) and still decided to release ultimate mage weapons designed to be used in melee combat.

Really shows you how clueless the devs were on this front.

You're missing the point. None, and I repeat NONE, of the relic or empyrean weapons specifically enhance any specific ability of any job. They coincidentally synergize with jobs who primairly deal damage, but they still don't modify any of that job's abilities like an empyrean weapon does.

The RNG relics help me control hate better.
The PLD shield helps me stay alive longer.
The BRD horn helps make my songs more potent.
The scythe gives DRK survival options otherwise non-existant.

How would you like it if something you worked hard for, for a reason, was suddenly transformed into something that served a completely different purpose than what you originally obtained it for?

Like I said before, if the relic Staff had the current stats plus a unique spell or something like 5mp/tic when equipped it'd at the least be useful for something other than melee.

It is clear that SE simply didn't want to bother taking the extra step to make the mage weapons mage-oriented so they simply lazily slapped acc/att on the weapons and called it a day.

[Leonlionheart]

Except all the relics aren't designed to damage?

@75
Amanomurakumo = Ultimate GKT.

The difference between Amano and Hagun at 75 was incredibly minimal, Hagun was just amazing.

Between the 2hand update and the SAM nerf(though not nerfed enough) Hagun pulled ahead iirc

[Sparthos]

The difference between Amano and Hagun at 75 was incredibly minimal, Hagun was just amazing.

Between the 2hand update and the SAM nerf(though not nerfed enough) Hagun pulled ahead iirc

At inception, the relic weapons were designed to be the best items for the classes that could use them. For years we got excuses from the developers that they had to tirelessly work to not create weapons more powerful than these weapons for the sake of balance.

When Amano was created, it was the best GKT in the game. When Claustrum was created, it was immediately inferior to an AH option in any condition that did not ask the BLM or SMN to melee.

Big difference.

Is it that difficult to realize when you give a class C rank melee skills, A rank magic skills and little to no melee options that the job is going backline? Mythics aside, the inequality between melee relics and mage relics is simply astounding. SE seems to be the only group that fails to understand this.

Melee relics allow you to play the class as designed while mage relics force you to do something against the mechanics of the game in order for weapon to function. It's just sloppy design at best and sheer disconnection from the base at worst.