Why are we advertized as fighter-mages when White Mages can out-do us?

[Winrie]

My mind is fried after reading this, once again for the thousandth time in FFXI history, a RDMs place is not on the frontlines, keep that to your solo escapades and fun little adventures. RDMs place is on the backline, offering support healing(Notice i did not say main healing) ENFEEBLING! Doing what RDM is made to do. Just because a job can frontline doesnt make them frontline worthy. You dont see WHMs frontlineing everything in any kind of event other than to hit Blue or Red on something in Abyssea.

Secondly, Making a Cure potency set is foolish? I'm sorry but if your job as a support role is weaker in comparison to other jobs you would want to excel your performance. RDM can hit 50% Cure potency without an issue, it just takes a little bit of effort(Magian staff) and a little bit of gil for the buyables.(Dom OPs for gil and cruor trading is hard yo)

RDM has always been sub par in all departments compared to BLM and WHM in terms of nukes and heals, this hasnt changed over the last year and a half since abyssea, it's always been this way, i dont see a point to screaming about it. WHM has always been able to Hexa things into the dirt for more dmg than a RDM can WS for, this isnt new. Having fun and doing what you want to do is fine, but when were talking about an overall jobs role in anything event wise RDM has never been a frontline, and it never will be, this fact has been absorbed over the years, you are backup healers and the best enfeeblers in the game. Thats what you are. And i'd really like to know how a SCH outdoes a RDM in terms of usefulness, cause it can AoE buff and things? Sorry for the rant, this topic just gets old after years.

[Ketaru]

My mind is fried after reading this, once again for the thousandth time in FFXI history, a RDMs place is not on the frontlines, keep that to your solo escapades and fun little adventures. RDMs place is on the backline, offering support healing(Notice i did not say main healing) ENFEEBLING! Doing what RDM is made to do. Just because a job can frontline doesnt make them frontline worthy. You dont see WHMs frontlineing everything in any kind of event other than to hit Blue or Red on something in Abyssea.

[Removed by Moderator according to the FINAL FANTASY XI FORUM Guidelines.] Whether RDM is truly frontline or backline isn't the problem here. The problem is why, if the job is backline in practice, does the Final Fantasy XI team continue to send mixed signals to the playerbase about what they think RDM is?

And whether I agree with you or not, I still stand by my position that SE owes the playerbase an explanation at the very least for what the hell they think they're doing.

[Winrie]

[Removed by Moderator according to the FINAL FANTASY XI FORUM Guidelines.] Whether RDM is truly frontline or backline isn't the problem here. The problem is why, if the job is backline in practice, does the Final Fantasy XI team continue to send mixed signals to the playerbase about what they think RDM is?

And whether I agree with you or not, I still stand by my position that SE owes the playerbase an explanation at the very least for what the hell they think they're doing.

thats just it, there are no mixed signals, RDM is the same as it was before, just fixed due to WHM upgrades and placed where it was supposed to be in the first place. [Removed by Moderator according to the FINAL FANTASY XI FORUM Guidelines.] Besides your explanation i already gave you in the first post i made, Just cause a job can do something doesnt make it worthy to do, a whm can frontline but you dont see them main doing that while healing because it isnt efficient, a pup can have a healing automaton and heal decently but they dont main do it cause it isnt efficient, you see a RDM can frontline with sword with decent WS's but they dont do it cause it isnt efficient, point is, just because a job can do it doesnt make it what it was intended to do. There is no 'Mixed signals'. RDMs place has been severely distored by a lot of things over the years. Colibri camps, you would invite a RDM to heal, due to refresh and decent healing magic, cant beat a WHM on hp recovered per heal but you could keep your mp up, now if you had a WHM and a BRD, that RDM would be LFG no doubt. Now you go into abyssea, RDM is downsized to its performance level it is intended to be due to WHMs enhancements and SE increasing RDMs ability to nuke, which before abyssea was only barely decent. This distortion has caused your so called 'Mixed signals of what a RDM is'. But hey at least we know RDM wasnt intended to be a tank! They fixed that too. [Removed by Moderator according to the FINAL FANTASY XI FORUM Guidelines.]

[Ketaru]

thats just it, there are no mixed signals, RDM is the same as it was before, just fixed due to WHM upgrades and placed where it was supposed to be in the first place. [Removed by Moderator according to the FINAL FANTASY XI FORUM Guidelines.]

If you cannot see the mixed signals, then there is just no discussing this with you. Our Empyrean gear translates to "Swordsman". Our relic armor is "Duelist". Many of our JSE pieces are "Fencer". When our job is used in promotional material, it always seen holding Swords. It is used in the promotion of the new sword item, Sagasinger. It was used in the promotion of Wings of the Goddess to show the playerbase promise of new job-exclusive weaponskills. It was promised frontline utility during the discussion of future job direction.

If the job is destined to be a backline job, they have to put a stop to this crap, or people are just going to continue being lead on to think SE really wants to move them to the frontline. Either that or start putting out updates that actually support what they keep showing the job as.

[Winrie]

If you cannot see the mixed signals, than there is just no discussing this with you. Our Empyrean gear translates to "Swordsman". Our relic armor is "Duelist". Many of our JSE pieces are "Fencer". When our job is used in promotional material, it always seen holding Swords. It is used in the promotion of the new sword item, Sagasinger. It was used in the promotion of Wings of the Goddess to show the playerbase promise of new job-exclusive weaponskills. It was promised frontline utility during the discussion of future job direction.

If the job is destined to be a backline job, they have to put a stop to this crap, or people are just going to continue being lead on to think SE really wants to move them to the frontline. Either that or start putting out updates that actually support what they keep showing the job as.

I can kinda feel you on that, it does seem a little deceptive, but i think youre looking a bit too much into it and should wait for what the future holds and embrace what is now. Remember they intended ninja to not be a tank, but it is now, and they intended SAM to be a tank, and it isnt. The one fact that is clear is the players form the jobs role, no matter what SE does. The only thing that stops us is SE c**kblocking us on it by making nerfs, i.e. RDM/NIN tanking.

[Duelle]

Just cause a job can do something doesnt make it worthy to do, a whm can frontline but you dont see them main doing that while healing because it isnt efficient, a pup can have a healing automaton and heal decently but they dont main do it cause it isnt efficient, you see a RDM can frontline with sword with decent WS's but they dont do it cause it isnt efficient

A healer archetype actually healing makes sense. PUP is a weird thing that has gotten more developer attention than any other job in the game, though the automaton's lacking AI is partly to blame for why they can't at least do part of the healer duties.

Both are VERY different from a hybrid concept like a magic swordsman being forced into healing/support.

[Supersun]

RDM can hit 50% Cure potency without an issue, it just takes a little bit of effort

BULLSHIT! Red Mage can't even come CLOSE to +50%

+22% from the staff
+5% from hands/feet combo
=27% which should be the realistic minimum

+3% Fylgja Torque +1
+5% Roundel Earring
=35% which may or may not happen considering one of those pieces drops from a campaign BCNM and we all know how much people love campaign atm >.>

+3% Selenian Cap
+5% Tatsumaki Sitagoromo
=43% which are already a bit much to require since they are likely going to be used for other things

So remind me how again this is even close to "50% Cure potency without an issue"? Because last I checked even BARDS AND SUMMONERS can hit 50% cure potency easier then Rdm.

[Daniel_Hatcher]

BULLSHIT! Red Mage can't even come CLOSE to +50%

+22% from the staff
+5% from hands/feet combo
=27% which should be the realistic minimum

+3% Fylgja Torque +1
+5% Roundel Earring
=35% which may or may not happen considering one of those pieces drops from a campaign BCNM and we all know how much people love campaign atm >.>

+3% Selenian Cap
+5% Tatsumaki Sitagoromo
=43% which are already a bit much to require since they are likely going to be used for other things

So remind me how again this is even close to "50% Cure potency without an issue"? Because last I checked even BARDS AND SUMMONERS can hit 50% cure potency easier then Rdm.

Quoted for truth.

And the quote is all I'll say in relation to that poster, I tire of people that only come here to tell everyone they're wrong.

[Seriha]

Rescuer atma would be 10% in Abyssea, so in theory you could drop the Torque or Cap. However, you'd have a hard time plucking me away from MM/Beyond/Ultimate combo if I happen to be on RDM. And if I was there to heal, I'd be on WHM.

[Hyrist]

Stating/Taking opinions as fact.

That's really new.

See. Here's the problem I have here. I've no objection to those who desire to play Red Mage as strictly a back line job. But I take offense when they take the inverse about Melee.

Red Mage, by both design and advertisement, is supposed to be an all-range job, nothing less. The fact that even mentioning melee in any context sets off sparks states how broken the job has been and how a selling portion of the job has been thrown by the wayside in favor of being a Psudo-Scholar strips it of it's iconic identity.

I'm not interested in the dissenting opinions, I've heard every single argument against Red Mages in the front lines more times than I care to recall, and have seen the performance level teeter back back and forth.

The point of the matter is, it's been adverised to death as a front line presence, not a back line. It's 7 years past time for them to back up what they advertise better.

As far as 'for the last time'. I have a good laugh at anyone who thinks they're ever going to convinced RDMs to put down their blades so long as they have Relic-level weapons in the sword and Dagger catagories. Those should not be reduced to solo toys for the RDM. Nor should a Red Mage feel disuaded from getting these weapons because of a social stigma surrounding an aspect of their job class they DO receive (admittingly inadaquate) job ability and spell support for.