Why complain about balance - recent job changes.

[JackDaniels]

Really, why do you have to ask?

It's silly to make such a huge deal (by huge deal I mean "OMG the sky is falling! the sky is falling!!") over the balance @ level 90 when 99 is right around the corner, the balance at 90 won't even matter anymore at that point. Do we actually have a solid list of skills and abilities we're going to attain between 91-99.

Why make a thread about this?

Post count +1? You win!

[Zagen]

It's silly to make such a huge deal (by huge deal I mean "OMG the sky is falling! the sky is falling!!") over the balance @ level 90 when 99 is right around the corner, the balance at 90 won't even matter anymore at that point. Do we actually have a solid list of skills and abilities we're going to attain between 91-99.

The thing is as was said jobs weren't balanced at 75, at 80 they still weren't balanced, at 85 they weren't balanced, and at 90 they still aren't balanced in any different way than at 75. Why would we keep our mouths shut about the fact the jobs aren't balanced expecting them to be magically fixed in 9 levels when they haven't done it in 15 thus far?

[Greatguardian]

Jobs aren't even meant to be balanced in any one context.

Will Warrior be able to solo as effectively as DNC, BST, RDM, and SMN? Naw, son.

Will Summoner be able to DD as effectively as WAR, MNK, SAM, and NIN? Naw.

It's all about context. All 20 jobs being equally viable at any given thing defeats the entire purpose of being able to change jobs on a whim. SE never intended for the players to build such an emotional attachment to any one job or another. They figured, when we came across something that X job was poorly built for, we'd switch to Y job for it. With 380 different main/sub job combinations available to us, the strategy of FFXI is and always has been finding the best set of tools for the job in front of you.

[Zagen]

Jobs aren't even meant to be balanced in any one context.

Will Warrior be able to solo as effectively as DNC, BST, RDM, and SMN? Naw, son.

Will Summoner be able to DD as effectively as WAR, MNK, SAM, and NIN? Naw.

It's all about context. All 20 jobs being equally viable at any given thing defeats the entire purpose of being able to change jobs on a whim. SE never intended for the players to build such an emotional attachment to any one job or another. They figured, when we came across something that X job was poorly built for, we'd switch to Y job for it. With 380 different main/sub job combinations available to us, the strategy of FFXI is and always has been finding the best set of tools for the job in front of you.

I agree jobs shouldn't be 100% equal but when I can do 90% of the game's content with 4 jobs what's the point of the other 16?

[Greatguardian]

You can do Abyssea with pretty much the same 6 jobs, but pre-Abyssea it was a completely different set of "Superjobs". BRD, RDM, SAMx2 could pretty much destroy all pre-Abyssea content before the cap increase (bar AV/PW, and a couple zergs), and now those jobs are pretty much in the crapper.

You can go back and do old Dynamis/Einherjar/Salvage/etc with the whole mnk/nin/war/whm dream team now, but it wasn't as feasible back at 75; and pretty much any group of 4 can handle old content now anyways.

Unfortunately, the entirety of what players consider content is not the same as what the Developers consider content. If I were to call SMN or BST anything, I'd call them solo and BCNM jobs. Because they do excel at both of those things. Can you beat every BCNM out there with MNK MNK WHM? Depends. Definitely depends. There are a few where you really just can't.

If you take away the limitation of context from Endgame-only, "Off" jobs become much more useful. Now, I don't think this is ideal personally, because Endgame content is the most important/rewarding set of content around. But it's not impossible to see where the Developers are coming from, and what they intended with the job system the way it is now.

Besides, when harder content comes back into play (this is already starting to show with voidwatch), the standard zerg strategy becomes significantly less inviting. Each job has traits and abilities that make them unique. It's just a matter of mixing and matching those traits and abilities to find out what does best on X fight.

[Bagel]

I agree jobs shouldn't be 100% equal but when I can do 90% of the game's content with 4 jobs what's the point of the other 16?

This is the same thing people were screaming about in 2005 with rng burns, then mnk KRT parties, then wars then sam...etc etc etc. The game is continually changing and there is always one job that will outperform others when all else is equal. If your job isn't top tier atm, learn more about your class. As long as you have a decent understanding of game mechanics and how to play your job, you will be able to contribute successfully to a group.

[JackDaniels]

This is the same thing people were screaming about in 2005 with rng burns, then mnk KRT parties, then wars then sam...etc etc etc. The game is continually changing and there is always one job that will outperform others when all else is equal. If your job isn't top tier atm, learn more about your class. As long as you have a decent understanding of game mechanics and how to play your job, you will be able to contribute successfully to a group.

Exactly Thanks for that.

Ppl need to chill lol

[Zagen]

This is the same thing people were screaming about in 2005 with rng burns, then mnk KRT parties, then wars then sam...etc etc etc. The game is continually changing and there is always one job that will outperform others when all else is equal. If your job isn't top tier atm, learn more about your class. As long as you have a decent understanding of game mechanics and how to play your job, you will be able to contribute successfully to a group.

In 2005 I was laughed at for suggesting MNK and NIN were a better tank options. Nothing changed over those 6 years that made them a better tank option (at least not game changing that I'm aware of) other than the fact that people got better at the game and realized these jobs were good at tanking.

In 2006 or 2007 (I forget when I was into the HNM scene) WHM wasn't "needed" at 75 as a RDM was just as good if not overall a better healer. WHM has Cure V and VI, players have overall more HP and yet outside of Abyssea for old content and the new BCNM type fights Cure IV is more than enough to keep players alive.

The list can go on but the point doesn't change jobs haven't been balanced in the sense there is very little need for most jobs, this was true at 75 and it is still true today, and will likely be true at 99.

[Bagel]

In 2005 I was laughed at for suggesting MNK and NIN were a better tank options.

It can take a long time to change the mind of the player base. Really though, what it comes down to is who is at the controls. I'll take a good player playing X job over another playing play Y job, even though Y may ideally be able to contribute better to a particular fight.

It will not matter if another job is better than yours if you play it well enough to get the job done. Wasn't there a shell a long while back that used to use WAR/WHM to tank Tiamat back when it was current content? I am sure a pld/nin or nin/drk /brd would have been a more ideal choice for the fight, but they got it done and done well.

[Sparthos]

Uh in 2005 you couldn't soak damage like you can now, MNK tanking would not have been viable given the gear options and JA selection of the date and PDT and MDT options were not widely understood. Food options were also limited along with Refresh.

It wasn't only a matter of the base being ignorant, the tools simply didn't exist at the time.

NIN was always a tank but PLD provided the superior safety-net of the day. In EXP people preferred Ninja because of the added damage the class brought over PLD but at HNMs shadows could often be easily stripped leading to death.

The idea of a turtle PLD lasted as long as it did because the stakes were high, days if not weeks of work would be put into pop sets and the idea of using anything other than the "tank" class seemed self-defeating. Why wipe because of experimentation?