Do Relic, Mythic, and Empyrean staves lack utility?

[Korpg]

Who the hell said I don't care about drops? Everyone wants drops. The problem is we have a system that does not allow everyone to participate and also get drops. If you're not a WAR/MNK/NIN and you're killing anything in abssea, SE has basically said "fark you, you have to play one of these jobs or you don't get shiat, no matter how strong you are as a job/player."

Every drop I wanted, I solo'd, and I got.

Your opinion about the proc system is what your biggest argument. But nothing, absolutely nothing, is keeping you from getting what you want.

Want seals? There's quests for that.

Want gear? Kill XX NM.

Nothing is stopping you from getting what you want. Except you.

[Greatguardian]

No TH is a job trait of one job and in alot of cases it's only resaon for invite. TH and the proc system are different. The proc system doesn't give player's a reason to bring one job it encourages them to alienate 3/4 of them, which unless you happen to be elitist or particularly defensive of your favorite jobs position is instantly recognisible as a poorly designed system.

In a balanced game there shouldn't be inefficent jobs. If mulitple jobs fit a role then they ALL should be close enough in efficency to be at least close to equally welcome

Until you realize that adapting your jobs and playstyles to the challenge at hand is a fundamental part of actually playing the game.

This isn't WoW. We don't roll up one character on one job class and expect to be able to do things effectively with it. We have a character, with the potential for each of 20 different jobs and 380 job/subjob combinations. There doesn't need to be balance in the force, Luke. There is a very intentional imbalance based on what it is you are trying to do. Some jobs are better than others for X event. Some subjobs are better than others for Y event.

Determining what to use and when is FFXI.

[Alhanelem]

FFXI was never, ever designed to allow any one player to use the same one job for everything in the world. There are 20 jobs, filling 3-4 roles (DD, Healer, Buffer, Hybrid), that are designed with enough quirks and combinations (See: Subjob system) to allow them to be adapted to fit a variety of different situations effectively.

Except, according to you, most of the jobs are not effective. Only WAR/MNK/NIN and the necessary support/procing jobs are effective. If a job is not effective/efficient/whatever, which you've certainly argued SMN isn't (and I won't disagree that it is behind in power), then that needs to be addressed with job adjustments. There will always be minor deviations in the balance of power, no developer is able to achieve perfect balance, since there is some level of subjectivity in it. But when there is a clear disparity in job balance, something absolutely should be done.

Your opinion about the proc system is what your biggest argument. But nothing, absolutely nothing, is keeping you from getting what you want.

I'm not saying you get NO drops. Yes, with patience and persistence, anyone can get what they came for. but the Abyssea proc system creates imbalances in WHO is able to get what they came for reasonably. Every job can proc a few things. The problem is the current popularity of jobs is based almost purely on what they can proc. Yes, WAR/MNK/NIN proc the most and are currently the strongest jobs; But beyond that whether you are worth anything or not is not based on power or capability, but simply what procs you have. That is why the abyssea proc system is problematic. Your ability to perform doesn't even matter. Your ability to get proc is the only thing that really matters. Future proc systems have dealt with this problem.

For dynamis:
Most jobs either have or can reasonably sub a job that has at least one enemy-targetable job ability (JA-proc)
Every job has at least one weapon and a set of weapon skills, all of which appear to be able to be a proc (WS-proc). Summoner physical blood pacts count as weapon skills for this proc.
For low-manning, any job without magic can sub a job with magic (e.g. WHM) for magic procs, and in a party, you're always going to have at least one person with some kind of magic- but any kind of enemy-targeted magic will do; Summoner magic blood pact attacks count as magic for this proc

Unlike in abyssea, summoner doesn't get the proc shaft in Dynamis, so I have no issues there (except for the fact no one gives two farts about dynamis)

For Voidwatch, I'm not entirely sure as I have next to no experience on it, but I think the procing there is more fair to other jobs. Can anyone offer insight?

For Walk of Echoes, I honestly have no idea. I have seen red !! two or three times while fighting conflux #2 slime bosses. I have no idea what triggered them.

[Dallas]

There are 4 types of jobs: Ukon WAR, and crap.

[Greatguardian]

Except, according to you, most of the jobs are not effective. Only WAR/MNK/NIN and the necessary support/procing jobs are effective. If a job is not effective/efficient/whatever, which you've certainly argued SMN isn't (and I won't disagree that it is behind in power), then that needs to be addressed with job adjustments. There will always be minor deviations in the balance of power, no developer is able to achieve perfect balance, since there is some level of subjectivity in it. But when there is a clear disparity in job balance, something absolutely should be done.

WAR/MNK/NIN are the best (in the context of X, Y, Z).

Summoner is the worst (in the context of X, Y, Z).

Tally up the disparity between the two however you like.

Summoner is the best in the context of A, B, and C but you don't see me complaining. Perfect Defense, some Voidwatch fights, a lot of BCNMs, and a great deal of solo'ing.

Nothing is ever the best at everything. Some jobs are more niche than others.

But frankly, end result, the FFXI Devs probably don't, and never did, want all the jobs to be equal. That would defeat the entire purpose of the job system.

If you can't play the game without changing jobs, then you really should probably look into a game that better suits your interests. The bulk of FFXI's strategy is implemented before players even leave their mog house.

[Razushu]

Until you realize that adapting your jobs and playstyles to the challenge at hand is a fundamental part of actually playing the game.

This isn't WoW. We don't roll up one character on one job class and expect to be able to do things effectively with it. We have a character, with the potential for each of 20 different jobs and 380 job/subjob combinations. There doesn't need to be balance in the force, Luke. There is a very intentional imbalance based on what it is you are trying to do. Some jobs are better than others for X event. Some subjobs are better than others for Y event.

Determining what to use and when is FFXI.

Then why bother with the 14 additional jobs? Why make it so that multiple jobs have the same role? I'm not calling you an Elitist but by god with each passing post you sound a little more like one. The way you see FFXI they should've stopped adding jobs after BLM/WHM/THF/RDM/WAR/MNK.

[Cream_Soda]

All of this from someone who was complaining that all people care about are drops.

[Greatguardian]

Then why bother with the 14 additional jobs? Why make it so that multiple jobs have the same role? I'm not calling you an Elitist but by god with each passing post you sound a little more like one. The way you see FFXI they should've stopped adding jobs after BLM/WHM/THF/RDM/WAR/MNK.

You're far too narrow minded. Please stop thinking in the context of Abyssea being the only content in the entire game.

Summoner excels in a lot of fights. Summoner is absolutely vital to defeating Absolute Virtue. Warrior is a piss-poor soloist. Samurai, Paladin, Red Mage, and Bard were the 4 most popular/useful jobs in the game for years in pre-Abyssea events and are now some of the worst in Abyssea. It's all a matter of bloody context.

BCNMs? Summoner excels.

Assaults? Summoner excels.

Einherjar? Summoner is bloody terrible.

Do you see my point? It's not about gearing for one thing and one thing only. It's about changing your job and setup based on what it is you are trying to do at the present time. If you're doing something Summoner excels at, go Summoner. If you're doing something Summoner is horrible at, go something else. That is how FFXI works. That is how the Devs want FFXI to work.

There are 20 jobs because it opens up a whole slew of possibilities (380 combinations per player) in order to better adapt to whatever the hell the Devs decide to throw at us, past, present, and future.

[Alhanelem]

Some jobs are more niche than others.

No job should be so niche that the entirety of their desireableness is a very specific fight or a single ability out of several dozen.

You're far too narrow minded. Please stop thinking in the context of Abyssea being the only content in the entire game.

Dude, you can't play both sides in an argument and also simultaneously paint us as always being on the opposite side. First you said summoner is a niche job with only a couple of reasons why anyone would ever want one for a second. Now you're saying it excels at all this other stuff. Which one is it?

Youve spent all this time arguing about the jobs that are top tier and if you're not using those jobs, you're being ineficient losers. You base those arguments on the conditions present in Abyssea. Then you turn around and say abyssea isn't the only thing in the game and oh wait, these jobs are actually useful.

You are playing both sides when it suits you.

380 combinations per player

Oh, don't give me that. Even I know that. there are at least a few combinations there that are redundant or serve no sensical purpose whatsoever, e.g. any combination of two pet jobs, because you can't use the pets from both jobs.

[Dallas]

If you can't play the game without changing jobs, then you really should probably look into a game that better suits your interests.

SE created Maat's Cap when a couple guys who were bored decided to level all jobs. All that storage space? Also unintended. SE intended for people to switch characters. BG insisted that people level the bandwagon job of the month.