Do Relic, Mythic, and Empyrean staves lack utility?

[Azagthoth]

I think the funniest thing about this thread is that the people arguing on behalf of SMN are self-defeating in the sense that they're not portraying SMN as a job that needs to be buffed. It would be more beneficial to take a look a SMN's weaknesses and come up with ideas to improve the job's capabilities.

[Razushu]

I think the funniest thing about this thread is that the people arguing on behalf of SMN are self-defeating in the sense that they're not portraying SMN as a job that needs to be buffed. It would be more beneficial to take a look a SMN's weaknesses and come up with ideas to improve the job's capabilities.

At the risk of restarting the argument, I think we all know SMN needs improvement but needs improvement=/= useless*. We could use new Rages another boost to our wards(make them scale up with levels better) and BP timer is hurting us(I think BP timer is partially to stop us applying like 10 buff to a party at once but jsut putting a cap on the amount of buff we can give can fix that)


* I know no one is literally saying SMN is useless but saying we're bottom of the barrel adds up to the same.

[Greatguardian]

Even bottom of the barrel played well is above average. Though, that really says more about the average in FFXI than anything else. Recognize that distinction (It's not you, it's the job) and the entire disagreement is over.

As for making Summoner at all respectable as a DD job (their only solid role. They suck ass as healers and have terrible buffs), removing the cap on BP timer reduction and allowing buffs to hit Avatars would pretty much solve 90% of their issues off the bat.

[Azagthoth]

Even bottom of the barrel played well is above average. Though, that really says more about the average in FFXI than anything else. Recognize that distinction (It's not you, it's the job) and the entire disagreement is over.

As for making Summoner at all respectable as a DD job (their only solid role. They suck ass as healers and have terrible buffs), removing the cap on BP timer reduction and allowing buffs to hit Avatars would pretty much solve 90% of their issues off the bat.

Yeah, I agree completely.

Razushu, I wasn't meaning to come off dickish either; I just think that your time would be better spent trying to improve the job if you want to change people's opinions about it. It's a win-win situation for you.

[Malamasala]

As for making Summoner at all respectable as a DD job (their only solid role. They suck ass as healers and have terrible buffs), removing the cap on BP timer reduction and allowing buffs to hit Avatars would pretty much solve 90% of their issues off the bat.

I disagree. But not in the sense that you are wrong, but that it is by far not enough to solve 90% of the issues. (You are for example missing that pets have lower DMG rating, slow attack speed and very little haste gear, so you'd be way behind in DoT to begin with. In addition removing the cap only, will just allow for a little more reduction but will not solve the underlying problem of global timers. Give a BLM a 20 sec global timer on all spells and you'll notice that it is not the 45 seconds that is the problem, it is the fact you are restricted to one at a time spell)

[Korpg]

I disagree. But not in the sense that you are wrong, but that it is by far not enough to solve 90% of the issues. (You are for example missing that pets have lower DMG rating, slow attack speed and very little haste gear, so you'd be way behind in DoT to begin with. In addition removing the cap only, will just allow for a little more reduction but will not solve the underlying problem of global timers. Give a BLM a 20 sec global timer on all spells and you'll notice that it is not the 45 seconds that is the problem, it is the fact you are restricted to one at a time spell)

Well, your solution calls for more limitations, instead of fixing stuff.

Why stop there, why not give WHM a 20 second global timer on spells.

Or any DD a 20 second swing.

That will really put things into prospective. Fixes SMN's problem, doesn't it? >.>

[Razushu]

A great way to help fix SMN would be to give us a BP delay system broken up by level as well as rage/ward. In most cases Avatar's get 1 ward and 1 rage in a 10 level range i.e. level 20-29. some of these are still nice at level 75+ but are useless because of shared time with other pacts. Seperated timer's could be applied to each of these(still global across avatars though) to these with lower level pact's having shorter recast Possibly like so:

Pacts gained lower than lvl10 recast 10 seconds

Pacts gained at 10-19 recast 20 seconds

Pacts gained at 20-29 recast 20 seconds

Pacts gained at 30-39 recast 30 seconds

Pacts gained at 40-49 recast 40 seconds

Pacts gained at 50-59 recast 50 seconds

Pacts gained at 60-69 recast 60 seconds

Pacts gained at 70-79 recast 60 seconds

Pacts gained at 80-89 recast 70 seconds

Pacts gained at 90-99 recast 80 seconds

BP delay could be reworked like so: minimum recast=tier cost x.75(rounded up where applicable)

ex. a rage gained at level 23(burning strike) would have a max reduction of -5 secs.

This would enable us to get use out of some of our lower pacts without sacrificing our high level pacts while preventing us from spamming them.

[Razushu]

Yeah, I agree completely.

Razushu, I wasn't meaning to come off dickish either; I just think that your time would be better spent trying to improve the job if you want to change people's opinions about it. It's a win-win situation for you.

It's cool you didn't

[Byrth]

Thank you for your speedy action last time, Alhanelem. I have two more cases this time, I think.

All of the information from this post got sucked onto ffxiclopedia without citation on any of the pages, as far as I can find:
http://www.bluegartr.com/threads/103...=1#post4655960
http://wiki.ffxiclopedia.org/index.p...&oldid=1340875
User Nanashi14

I mean, I get the whole "YouTube"esque "We'll have takedown policies, but it's your responsibility to report abuse" method of increasing site traffic. It's kind of a pain though, and you guys aren't working on FFXIclopedia anymore so you could probably start legitimately questioning where the information comes from.

I also hypothesized an unreported drop in a BG Voidwatch thread a month or so ago. It ended up getting mirrored on both Gamer Escape and ffxiclopedia. I suspect that the Gamer Escape contributor was pulling it from FFXIclopedia rather than BGwiki, but the FFXIclopedia contributor was likely pulling it directly from BG wiki. He probably wouldn't had added it if he'd seen the number of assumptions I had to make to put it on that NM in the thread from the forums. There have, as far as I know, still been no reports (NA or JP) of the drop (staff) off Arch Angra Mainyu.
BGWiki: http://wiki.bluegartr.com/index.php?...8&oldid=158012
FFXIclopedia: http://wiki.ffxiclopedia.org/index.p...&oldid=1337623
Gamer Escape: http://ffxi.gamerescape.com/wiki/ind...&oldid=1293253

In both cases, it was added around the time of a bunch of other drops, meaning they actually likely lifted all the information straight from BG or BG wiki. Furthermore, the second case was a contributor with 20k+ edits.

[Dallas]

lol to me it says:

BST and SMN don't need healers... so you don't need WHMs... so instead of inviting WHM get an entire pet party to kill something... and only invite the WAR (and probably NIN) for red procs because you don't have WHM so they need Apoc to keep getting back up.

However, instead of alllll of that you can just: NIN WAR WHM: kill whatever faster than a pet party.

Congratulations, you can read pet job, unlike a lot of people. BTW, is the WAR finally pulling the "only in Abyssea card?" I purposely left out: if we're outside of of Abyssea, WAR can take a hike.

You did take the bait. Thanks! What's wrong with the NIN WAR WHM plan? Nothing at all, except that for once in almost 900 posts someone BESIDES ME admitted that lowman is the best setup in Abyssea. No BRD. No DNC. You can't give those two jobs any credit for boosting the power of the WAR because THEY AREN'T THERE. Your WAR is also holding back so the NIN can tank.

SMN and BST are excellent in the absence of buffs. Your party setup has a complete absence of buffs. Your WAR isn't the top of the totem pole and pet jobs aren't the bottom.