Do Relic, Mythic, and Empyrean staves lack utility?

[Leonlionheart]

Your talents at derp translations are astounding.

lol thanks :O its cuz i'm from asura.

[Greatguardian]

I'm just curious at what Summoner is better than ... anyone at.

I mean, like, anything. Want to claim they DD better than PUP? I mean, they don't, but feel free to at least try. Better than PLD? No, no they really don't. I mean, go for it.

Are they better at DD'ing while healing than other jobs that can do so? I dunno. How about Paladin? Nope. Uh, Scholar? Nope. Red Mage? Nope. White Mage? Nope.

Uh, Buffing while Healing? Nope.

Buffing while DD'ing? Better than who? Uh ... COR? No. Brd? No. Whm? No. Rdm? No. Sch? No. Who else?

Buffing while Healing While DD'ing? Better than COR/WHM? No. WHM? No. RDM? No.

I'm not trying to cut anyone off, but people keep saying that SMN is not the absolute worst. You say that it "Does a lot at once". But other jobs can to.

Who can Summoner actually do something better than? Specific example. Please. Even just one.

When 90% of FFXI players in pickups are absolute full-Aurore suck, yes, any good Summoner is going to look like an absolute god among them. But compare that good Summoner to a good anything else and what do you get aside from wasted potential? I mean, seriously. What is Summoner as a job doing that the same person could not be doing better on another job?

Aside from having fun. Which is a moot point. Everyone's said a million times that fun is fun and people can do what they want. Summoner will just mean doing it worse than they could be doing it on any other job in the game.

Edit: Protip: Sticking your fingers in your ears and proclaiming that your job is not completely frapping broken to the nth degree by not being able to benefit from Haste/Buffs is the absolute best way to keep from ever receiving a beneficial update.

[Korpg]

I'm just curious at what Summoner is better than ... anyone at.

Soloing. Certain. Notorious. Monsters.

Maybe not fast, but at least a lot safer than others, but you know what, you never look at that because most of you guys have at least 2 other mules to tri-box with, probably with your own versions of bots. So you can say you can "solo" anything.

But when you have nothing like that, SMN shines. We don't have to depend on anyone or anything except our abilities and our avatars.

[Cream_Soda]

So being good at soloing makes you great at what aspect in a party slot? Last I checked we were talking about smns in pts.

[Korpg]

So being good at soloing makes you great at what aspect in a party slot? Last I checked we were talking about smns in pts.

Did I quote you?

The request was, in case you can't read simple english:

"I'm just curious at what Summoner is better than ... anyone at."

Which I even quoted. When I responded.

Now shoo, Filth goes over here

[Aurara]

RDM is a better soloer than smn, just saying.
Edit: Also, what NMs are you talking about anyways lol?

[Cream_Soda]

My point still stands, unless you're concurring that they're only good in a solo situation (which even then, I'd say average because many jobs can solo better/faster than smn) and not in pt situations, which is been the subject of the last x number of pages.

[Razushu]

I don't die often

but when I do its because I'm red proccing.





Sarcasm intended

I haven't agreed with you so far but damn you can be funny

[Razushu]

lol to me it says:

BST and SMN don't need healers... so you don't need WHMs... so instead of inviting WHM get an entire pet party to kill something... and only invite the WAR (and probably NIN) for red procs because you don't have WHM so they need Apoc to keep getting back up.

However, instead of alllll of that you can just: NIN WAR WHM: kill whatever faster than a pet party.

The real question is even sans WHM why is a WAR dying constantly in a group full of SMNs?

[TybudX]

You aren't "lowering the output" of any normal, typical party of normal typical people. This is a load of cockamamie whatsit.

In any average group of average people, you don't lose anything. It's only when you reach the elitist tier when you might lose anything.

800 posts later and all we've learned is that elitists hate summoners.

You don't rate the job and that's fine but it doesn't change the fact that I am useful as a support and have been since I started trying it 2 years ago. Am I the best? No. Am I good at it? Yes

You guys need to understand that it isn't about being 'elitist'. I'm going to say this because BG gets a bad rap by people who don't understand the culture. It's a community based on learning how to play FFXI better, and a big part of that is understanding game mechanics and how they work as part of a strategy. It's not a community for elitists, it's a community for people that understand that they need to change in order to be more successful. There are very few people who post on BG who have 'perfect' gear or always make 'perfect' parties. If they were perfect, there wouldn't be much point in playing anymore, right?

So this is it. When you discuss game mechanics, and specifically job performance, you need to understand how the job can perform at it's absolute peak. You have to remove player 'skill' from the discussion. It is hugely varied and impossible to quantify, and for practical purposes it has no place in an unbiased discussion. At the same time, comparing A to B when A is perfect and B has no idea how to gear a job properly doesn't make sense, either. Comparisons like that aren't going to get you any useful information.

This is what is going on right now, in this thread. There are people who are showing you that SMN can not perform it's 'duties' on the same level as any other job in the game, period. At best it is tied for healing capacity with other jobs that only have healing due to /whm or /rdm (COR). Aside from a few niche buffs (EA, PD) the buffs it does have are either not unique to the job (Haste, Stoneskin) or are significantly weaker than alternative job buffs, to the point where even if you add up the entire potential a SMN can add to a party, any other job capable of a similar role will perform better. This isn't a failing on either of you as players, it is a failing of the design of the SMN job. No matter how much you enjoy the job, no matter how good you are playing the job, it is still a sub-par job.

The WHM can't be that competent, the tank is a WAR/SAM looking for epeen damage.

Says the melee SMN. Hint: Killing faster is killing safer. If you have the healing power to support it (*coughWHM*cough*), use the strongest DD available. Winning in a shorther time frame offers less chance for damaging TP moves, which actually ends up using less healing overall.

Last I saw, our Ukon WARs still had tremendous butthurt over the TP feed of a melee SMN. I can understand why, they want to tank with Hasso. That means the WHM is going to be saving the Ukon WARs ass a LOT, and running out of MP. He is not going to be competent enough to handle all the stupidity the idiots are throwing around this thread AND the haste that any SMN could easily handle.

By your own logic, the only reason the WHM can't handle the TP feed is because you are meleeing on SMN. Solution: don't bring a SMN (namely you). The real 'problem' you are trying to invent is that you think WAR/SAM riding Hasso is an MP sponge, but it isn't for reasons I described above. In fact doing more damage per hit is essentially feeding less TP. If SMN melee was at all respectable, say Empyrean being on par with a DNC or even THF or PUP, it wouldn't be an issue. It's not. It's bottom of the barrel melee damage, on par with what a BLM or a SCH could put out.

So now what it comes down to for your twisted perception is this: if we already have DNC meleeing on a mob, or THF meleeing on a mob, or some other DD other than the 'tank' DD(s), then TP feed isn't an issue with the mob(s) you are fighting. Nobody cares if you melee on trash mobs. If it is a mob that has dangerous TP moves you will use less DDs on it. You will use one or two DDs, and they should be the best damaging DDs you have available. It doesn't need to be a WAR/SAM. Sometimes it's more practical to have a MNK, NIN, THF, DNC, DRK, hell, even a PLD as a tank, due to whichever type of dangerous TP move or magical attacks the mob in question does. In this case you aren't going to get to melee on SMN. Will you do more damage? Sure. Will you be the cause of the MP sponging going on? Absolutely.

You will die because we want you to. WARs aren't good for anything else in a pet party, so stop crying and use Apoc.

Epic lol. You aren't useful for anything at all in a real party (hint; the rest of the game).