Do Relic, Mythic, and Empyrean staves lack utility?

[Dallas]

Why did you bother with SMN 90, LLH? You won't DD or buff, and I'm sure you heal with WHM. You get all the pixels at L75, so what bet did you lose?

[TybudX]

We're approaching 800 posts, and there are still MNKs and WARs, who don't see the difference between

1) a 130mp, 1-sec job ability hitting everyone including the pet for a 5-minute haste and
2) a 40mp, 3 second cast, 20 second recast spell hitting 1 person for a 3-minute haste

Just using the Haste spell for the SMN + avatar for 5 minute duration would cost 133MP and take 12 seconds to cast. Basically, for a melee SMN, keeping you ungrateful autoattackers hasted is free and gives me back extra attack rounds.

So you admit that hitting alt-0 is easier on SMN than hitting alt-0 6 times on WHM, RDM, or SCH is? Or what was your point? You made a comment about 'simple jobs' snuffing out hybrids like it's difficult to play SMN; it's not even remotely hard. It takes the same amount of focus and knowledge of gear as any other job in the game. The difference between SMN auto-attacking, casting a couple buffs, doing a WS, etc., and an 'ungrateful autoattacker' who needs to pay attention to mob behaviour, swap gear for pdt/mdt, WS at appropriate times, possibly count shadows, keep up a cycle of their own buffs and debuffs? It's nil. The concept of DD being auto-attack/afk is a joke. WAR is the job that comes closest to it, and good luck going from being a melee SMN to keeping up with all of a WARs JAs, gear swaps, etc. You really are clueless.

Also, it's been explained, over, and over, and over, and over. You casting Hastega is a convenience for mages. Not for "ungrateful autoattackers". Mages. You are actually getting mad because you aren't getting recognition for it, from "ungrateful autoattackers", who are going to get Haste regardless of you being in the party or not. Those mages aren't even put out by having to cycle Haste themselves; they've been doing it outside of Abyssea Refresh for years with no problems. Why do they suddenly need that 133mp and 12 seconds? Oh, that's right, they don't. So really, the only person who gains anything from a SMN casting Hastega over a WHm or a RDM or a SCH is.... the avatar. Sounds to me like you're the ungrateful one, for being allowed to cast a buff that only benefits yourself.

[Bumbeen]

I dunno how you guys are able to keep this up.

[Dallas]

It's easy. They're playing SMN, without DD, buffing, or healing. They have all the time in the world to post.

Also, it's been explained, over, and over, and over, and over. You casting Hastega is a convenience for mages. Not for "ungrateful autoattackers".

You can be wrong over and over. We'll hit 1000 posts and you will still be wrong. My pet only gets Haste from me. I'm using Hastega. I'm sure even WHM taught by BG are bad enough players to overwrite a 5 minute buff with a 3 minute buff.

It's very easy. If you want a weaker buff, party with weaker players.

[Bumbeen]

Actually, I think you're trolling all of them.

[Leonlionheart]

Why did you bother with SMN 90, LLH? You won't DD or buff, and I'm sure you heal with WHM. You get all the pixels at L75, so what bet did you lose?

I leveled SMN for fun, actually. All my other jobs out do it in all categories, except maybe buffing, however BLU can do that to some extent (hello AoE 5min haste and more powerful cures than anyone but WHM, including the most MP efficient cure there is) although obviously not as well as SMN.

I still play it somewhat often, but hardly ever in a party setting. I use it to cure on NMs that don't need the level of cures WHM does (95% of seal NMs SMN can heal well enough and keep out an Avatar at all times in abyssea).

[Leonlionheart]

You can be wrong over and over. We'll hit 1000 posts and you will still be wrong. My pet only gets Haste from me. I'm using Hastega. I'm sure even WHM taught by BG are bad enough players to overwrite a 5 minute buff with a 3 minute buff.

It's very easy. If you want a weaker buff, party with weaker players.

lol, because the SMN is in the DD party. If you want a weaker party, play with a SMN in it.

[Alhanelem]

Yall feeding dallas need to troll or something, because there's no way that Melee SMN is anything but a joke.

It keeps going on because you keep posting crap like this and incite others to post more. There's a term people use on the internet for this... Trollling? I think that's what it was called?

It's not "anything but a joke." It has its place and use with the proper preperation. It just just doesn't live up to your standards. That's fine. Doesn't bother me at all. It's not, however, a joke. It's serious business. It is capable of elevating the job beyond whatever current level of patheticness you feel it has, up to a higher level (and this was proven with math). Whatever you want to call it is up to you, as long as you don't impose your immature and elitist feelings and views on others.

but that doesn't mean the SMN should ever be in the melee party anyway,

If you have a summoner, they should be treated like any other human being playing any other job and should be given the respect they deserve. I'm sorry that you feel that any kind of SMN falls below your elitist standards, but for the rest of us, it's funcitonal enough to have in a party and get stuff done.For the rest of us below the top 1%, it's still a useful, functional job.

[Greatguardian]

It's not about personal respect or disrespect and never has been, and that is where you fall apart. You keep defending your job to the death when you're being hit with facts and numbers that just go to show that Summoner is practically last place in terms of actual utility. Here's the problem: You're personally invested in the Summoner job. Just because Summoner is bottom of the barrel, does that mean that people who have Summoner leveled are somehow not worthy of respect? No. No one is claiming that.

Summoner as a job is absolutely not worth batting an eye over. It is practically dead last. Every other job in the game that can buff can buff better than Summoner. Every other job in the game that can DD can DD better than summoner. Every other job in the game that can heal can heal as well as or better than Summoner. The jobs in the game that can do more than one of these at a time still do them all better than Summoner. It hasn't been about being the best for 75 pages. It is about being dead bloody last.

Should any of that affect you personally? No. Does any of that say anything about a player behind the monitor? No. Does any of that mean that a player who is on Summoner is trash and bottom of the barrel? No. All it means, and all it will ever mean, is that the job itself is bottom of the barrel.

Will there be good players playing terrible jobs? Always. Will they be preferable to crappy players on good jobs? Always. But at the same time, would those good players be significantly better on good jobs? Hell yes. They would outperform themselves by miles. That is the only real test to be had here. If I get on SMN and play it perfectly, and then get on WHM and play it perfectly and outperform my SMN by a mile and a half (in DD, Buffing, AND healing simultaneously), then I can safely say that I'm far more effective on White Mage than I could ever be on Summoner.

This is the point. No one gives a flying frap if you come Summoner to things. No one gives a flying frap how you spend your time, or what your friends do, or who lets you do what. You are welcome to be on the bottom of the barrel, dead last, worst job in the game as much as you want. If you play it well? Great. You play the game well. But that does not make Summoner any better. That does not make Summoner worthy of any respect as a job class. That does not make Summoner anything other than borderline dead weight, an underperforming blemish on the FFXI job system.

Play Summoner all you want. Enjoy it as much as you want, I'm glad for you and bear you no ill will for it. But don't you dare come in here and tell me that dead last is "Good enough".

[Bumbeen]

best post 123456