Summoner update ~ new job ability "sacrifice"

[Habiki]

SMN is far more easily lumped in with WHM, BLM, SCH and BRD than DRK. The only comparision we have with DRK is that there's groups of people that find us useless. We share nothing with DRK other than the Game we inhabit. They have the good native WS, good melee traits, good melee abilities and they even have a trait that gives them TP from casting. Now point to that list and show me how they're the same.

Please tell me your not trying to imply SMN has more reason to be up front than BLU. Again BLU gets good native WS, good melee traits(depending on what they set), good melee abilities. Which leaves them more comparable to DRK than SMN ever could be. Even WHM trounces SMN as a DD they also get good native WS and now with Afflatus Misery + Auspice they get Enlight and Subtle Blow plus an acc bonus when they miss with it active. Not to mention they can Dual wield thier main weapon type further increasing both thier DoT and WS frequency if they have and OAT weapon off hand or a K.Club. Now before you say if they're meleeing they're not performing their main job role, neither is SMN seeing as it's a DD/Support class if your meleeing your not rotating avatar's/buffs your just performing 1/2 a SMNs role.

Maybe try meleeing some instead of only being useful every 45 seconds, you could sub samurai and probably out dd your pets dmg with just meditate and sekkanoki along with your DOT. If your not caipable of switching pets or buffing while your autoattacking I feel bad for you.

Theres nothing really wrong with any of the jobs in ffxi, whats wrong is their roles are dictated by the playerbase not the devs. The elitist math geeks say its one way and everyone takes their word as gospel, not willing to try anything else for fear of being called a gimp for meleeing on rdm etc.

[Razushu]

Maybe try meleeing some instead of only being useful every 45 seconds, you could sub samurai and probably out dd your pets dmg with just meditate and sekkanoki along with your DOT. If your not caipable of switching pets or buffing while your autoattacking I feel bad for you.

Theres nothing really wrong with any of the jobs in ffxi, whats wrong is their roles are dictated by the playerbase not the devs. The elitist math geeks say its one way and everyone takes their word as gospel, not willing to try anything else for fear of being called a gimp for meleeing on rdm etc.

First off I know about melee I know it's upsides and downsides.i also know the upsides and Downsides of SMN buffing. If you sub SAM the party gains some damage(but it's from a source that is in greater damage of eating dirt than any other job), but you lose the ability to back up the party also. If you're meleeing and cycling buffs you're losing DoT and if you've decided to gear yourself you've become dependant on your melee for MP. if you've decided to /WHM, SCH or RDM to support the party while meleeing and cycling buffs you're further lowering your DoT and your MP management to the point where it's not worth the risk of the SMN being up front for the minor damage increase from the odd swing between casting.

There is SMN is hurt badly by our BP delay alone, add in the fact we've been left with our BPs from 20 levels ago and some of our buff haven't scaled up from 75 cap. The roles aren't dictated by the player base in most cases, but by FF canon and the way the jobs are designed. It's possible to gear jobs in ways other than originally intended and by all means if you want to go for it. But if you think backline SMN is useless except once every 45 seconds you are doing it wrong.

Also please be careful of how and where you advocate melee SMN the "do not feed the Trolls" is being repainted and I'd rather not turn a real conversation into "I'm Leetz coz I haz a stick"

[Dallas]

Maybe try meleeing some

No use Habiki. This guy has unlocked Full Swing, apparently nothing else.

[Razushu]

No use Habiki. This guy has unlocked Full Swing, apparently nothing else.

See Habiki told ya Trolls

What we have here is a failure to communicate, Dallas here is incapable of reading anything other than "I've seen my folly SMN melee is the only way forward, teach me oh master!"

as evidenced by his missing my post

First off I know about melee I know it's upsides and downsides.i also know the upsides and Downsides of SMN buffing. If you sub SAM the party gains some damage(but it's from a source that is in greater damage of eating dirt than any other job), but you lose the ability to back up the party also. If you're meleeing and cycling buffs you're losing DoT and if you've decided to gear yourself you've become dependant on your melee for MP. if you've decided to /WHM, SCH or RDM to support the party while meleeing and cycling buffs you're further lowering your DoT and your MP management to the point where it's not worth the risk of the SMN being up front for the minor damage increase from the odd swing between casting.

There is SMN is hurt badly by our BP delay alone, add in the fact we've been left with our BPs from 20 levels ago and some of our buff haven't scaled up from 75 cap. The roles aren't dictated by the player base in most cases, but by FF canon and the way the jobs are designed. It's possible to gear jobs in ways other than originally intended and by all means if you want to go for it. But if you think backline SMN is useless except once every 45 seconds you are doing it wrong.

Also please be careful of how and where you advocate melee SMN the "do not feed the Trolls" is being repainted and I'd rather not turn a real conversation into "I'm Leetz coz I haz a stick"

That was right under yours and clearly displays my point

[Dallas]

You deal 700 damage with Full Swing and Fay Crozier and think it's a lot. You don't know as much about SMN melee as you say you do.

[Razushu]

You deal 700 damage with Full Swing and Fay Crozier and think it's a lot. You don't know as much about SMN melee as you say you do.

Ok this discussion was days ago but I'll repeat myself for the shortbus crowd

It's alot for no gear, poor weapon -100 staff skill 1 DD atma on a T+ mob. Seriously the point wasn't to gloat, but illustrate the point that any damage you brag about in Abyssea is moot because... and I'll try to be clear on this.... ANYTHING CAN DO HIGH DAMAGE IN ABYSSEA IF THE HAVE THE BUFFS AND GEAR FOR IT.

[Dallas]

700 wasn't high damage then and it isn't high damage now.

[Razushu]

700 wasn't high damage then and it isn't high damage now.

You really are incapable of basic communication, the chimps they teach sign language too would have got it by now

[Dallas]

Communication was always gonna work one way here. I know melee, you don't.

[Razushu]

Communication was always gonna work one way here. I know melee, you don't.

Nope, last time I checked I know about melee too, haven't done it on SMN. The communication works one way because you are mentally incapable/unwilling to see past your own ego. Time and again I've made relevant points and called you out only to have you resort to silly arguments and name calling. Fool that I am, I keep trying I suppose I believe even the most willfully stupid person can be brought into a reasonable and productive debate