Do Relic, Mythic, and Empyrean staves lack utility?

[Byrth]

Did everyone just climb out from under a rock? Pick a forum. Melee SMN first came out with colibri camps.

Heard it here first guys, pet burns on Bark Tarantulas in Dragon's Aery didn't exist.

Greatguardian is entirely correct.

Dallas, you're implying that you're going to start running out of MP if you can't melee, which is bad, because all of the situations where your job is remotely useful are also situations where meleeing is impractical. I'm basically talking about Voidwatch and ??? pop Dynamis NMs.

[Alhanelem]

He's saying that certain people need to stop talking about "Player + Avatar DoT" as a benefit for melee'ing when the only added benefit from melee'ing is Player DoT.

Who is arguing that something that isn't "added" is "added?"

I mean, this is kind of a duh situation- of course the melee dot is the added benefit. The Avatar stuff is what you do already. As far as I could tell, the poster was trying to tell me that his DoT on BRD is better than my DoT. Which might be true (I'm pretty sure it's not, actually) but the total damage a SMN can do far exeeds the total dmg a BRD can do; especially given that the only tool BRD has for additional damage is buffing his own attack or haste.

That said, this was never supposed to be a pissing contest about which job gets the biggest e-peen or most damage or whatever. It was supposed to be about whether the relic/empy staves had any utility. And the answer is they absolutely do. Do they turn you into an unbeatable killing machine? Absolutely not. Can they be put to good use by someone who builds a strategy around it? Absolutely yes.

So please, drop the subject of whether or not XYZ job does more damage than SMN. I don't really give a care and that's not what this is about. Just ignore dallas and get on with it.

[Dallas]

Dallas, you're implying that you're going to start running out of MP if you can't melee, which is bad, because all of the situations where your job is remotely useful are also situations where meleeing is impractical. I'm basically talking about Voidwatch and ??? pop Dynamis NMs.

Yes, this is the standard approach. Once you realize that melee is plausible in 99% of all situations, focus on the 1%. I have a general answer for you, at least for Dynamis (Voidwatch is crap). It is not necessary to melee as SMN on any mob that no one else melees. There are OTHER mobs in Dynamis to build TP on.

Remember, the backup plan is to play like the gimps. I have more utility.

[Leonlionheart]

Yes, this is the standard approach. Once you realize that melee is plausible in 99% of all situations, focus on the 1%. I have a general answer for you, at least for Dynamis (Voidwatch is crap). It is not necessary to melee as SMN on any mob that no one else melees. There are OTHER mobs in Dynamis to build TP on.

Remember, the backup plan is to play like the gimps. I have more utility.

TPing on other mobs to refresh your MP when you can just use a perp- staff and sub rdm for refresh, and still get MP back at all times. This argument kind of throws your "SMN MELEE IS CUL CUZ I DO DAMG WIT STAV" out of the equation.

[Dallas]

I can sub /RDM too, but I sub /WHM for Cure 4 and Abyssea procs. Just more proof how little non-melee can do without refresh.

[Leonlionheart]

No, it really doesn't. I will stake my reputation on that. I don't even see BRD doing more damage with any dagger WS than I could do with retribution or Aftermath damage, then you have the avatar on top of that. I'm sorry. BRD 1) isn't "designed for melee" and 2) does not out damage probably any proper SMN, much less melee SMN. I thought we had an understanding up til this point, maybe I was wrong. You are just making stuff up here. No BRD is going to out damage ANYBODY except maybe a SCH trying to melee the best they can. A SMN's staff does not exist in a vaccum, and the avatar must be included, because if you're not using your avatar, you're not a SMN.

BRD gets three times as much accuracy in gear as other mage jobs, can use Byakko's Haidate, Dusk Gloves and boots, and Goliard Saio and Zelus Tiara along with Goading/speed/ninurta's to cap haste. Hell, they can even skip the boots and use whatever they want in that slot, albeit minimal other choices, and still come out with acceptable haste. Not to mention they get Twashtar and Mandau, and will always have more haste by themselves than any other job possibly could, (aside from DRK/WHM).

Edit: pDIF is still an issue, although they can fix it with food and songs because their gear allows them to stray away from using accuracy food only

[Leonlionheart]

I can sub /RDM too, but I sub /WHM for Cure 4 and Abyssea procs. Just more proof how little non-melee can do without refresh.

lol you didn't adress my argument at all. No point in meleeing where you can be just as effective without endangering yourself fighting TP mobs.

[Dallas]

lol you didn't adress my argument at all. No point in meleeing where you can be just as effective without endangering yourself fighting TP mobs.

Oooh, is exp still an issue on your planet? On my planet, I throw on reraise, and in the unlikely event I die, I will play as effective as the gimps while weakened.

[Leonlionheart]

Oooh, is exp still an issue on your planet? On my planet, I throw on reraise, and in the unlikely event I die, I will play as effective as the gimps while weakened.

Now you're just trolling.

[Neisan_Quetz]

At least Brd caps haste. I also think you overestimate aftermath damage, especially since you have to use a 0 damage WS to keep it up...