Do Relic, Mythic, and Empyrean staves lack utility?

[Alhanelem]

But Al's method of keeping avatars out isn't unrealistic, its plausible, abet more dangerous for him to do. And there are still some NMs I wouldn't melee at all, even if I wanted blue. His method only works for group settings, and most people don't like seeing a SMN melee at all.

It can work fine on soloable NMs, though you'll have to sacrifice some damage in one, possibly two atmas for the avatar to stay alive whilst tanking. Otherwise, the DD atmas still work well even without meleeing to produce a stronger predator claws for pet kiting.

[Razushu]

Don't bother until you level your staff and get something better than Fay Crozier. You don't need to go around embarassing yourself in front of people that know you.

lol I have something better than a fay crozier, a Vayu's Staff +2 and a Varuna's staff(working on finishing it). But you probably wouldn't know about these because they enhance the main part of SMN. I told you about my damage with a fay Crozier on full Swing with gimp skill(245) to highlight the fact that in Abyssea anything can get high numbers in melee, which doesn't really help your argument because ANYTHING can do big melee and do it safer and more effiecent than SMN. So like I've been saying melee if you like but please don't try to tell me how great it is, it's still the weakest in the game has applications on some things in Abyssea but undoubtedly it will fall behind outside it.

[Alhanelem]

But you probably wouldn't know about these because they enhance the main part of SMN.

Who are you to decide what the "main" part of SMN is?

There is no "main" part of SMN. it's a flexible job that can do a wide range of things. There is a time and a place for everything.

[Razushu]

Who are you to decide what the "main" part of SMN is?

There is no "main" part of SMN. it's a flexible job that can do a wide range of things. There is a time and a place for everything.

I didn't SE did. I already said melee has niche applications but it's by no means a main part of SMN. The avatars are the main part of SMN our flexiblity is from them and their pacts wards/rages, the fact that every trait and ability we get is geared around our avatars is very telling. Again I'm not saying don't melee if you find it fun and can do it safely and the party doesn't mind go for it. There's lots of jobs that can be geared to melee but it's not part of their main role. In order to DD we lose alot of the flexibility our job excels at.

[Alhanelem]

I didn't SE did.

SE didn't decide that either. Otherwise, the job wouldn't have had attacks, buffs, heals, pet mechanics, decent skill in a weapon, MP, debuffs, etc.

There is no one tool that enhances all of those things, but there are tools for all of them. Through magian trials we have:

Staves for perp cost
Staves for magic attack, or pet magic attack
Staves for attack, or pet attack
Staves for melee damage, multi-attacking, weapon skills, etc
Staves for cure potency
Staves for several other attributes.

It's by far the most diverse of the magian trial categories, and SMN can arguably make good use of more of them than any other staff-weilding job. Honestly, the more of these you have, the more powerful you are in general.

(By the way, because of the differences with how avatar damage is calculated, swapping into a phyiscal attack weapon for a blood pact offers a trivial increase- When following a melee set up, this trivial difference is easily ignoreable as your melee DoT will far outstrip any gain from avatar physical attack, which also only works on blood pacts, by the way, except possibly from atma sources. If not meleeing, the difference is so small that enhancing this should be a low priority- Your time is better invested in avatar magic attack enhancements, since these have a more significant effect on the relevant blood pacts)

[Razushu]

SE didn't decide that either. Otherwise, the job wouldn't have had attacks, buffs, heals, pet mechanics, decent skill in a weapon, MP, debuffs, etc.

There is no one tool that enhances all of those things, but there are tools for all of them. Through magian trials we have:

Staves for perp cost
Staves for magic attack, or pet magic attack
Staves for attack, or pet attack
Staves for melee damage, multi-attacking, weapon skills, etc
Staves for cure potency
Staves for several other attributes.

It's by far the most diverse of the magian trial categories, and SMN can arguably make good use of more of them than any other staff-weilding job. Honestly, the more of these you have, the more powerful you are in general.

(By the way, because of the differences with how avatar damage is calculated, swapping into a phyiscal attack weapon for a blood pact offers a trivial increase- When following a melee set up, this trivial difference is easily ignoreable as your melee DoT will far outstrip any gain from avatar physical attack, which also only works on blood pacts, by the way, except possibly from atma sources. If not meleeing, the difference is so small that enhancing this should be a low priority- Your time is better invested in avatar magic attack enhancements, since these have a more significant effect on the relevant blood pacts)

SE did make the choice all those things come from the pet, except the B in staff. Which was my point SE made the job incredibly versatile but pet reliant. Every job gets at least a C+ in one weapon, it's just the way it is it isn't indicative of anything. Any staff using class can make as much use if not better than SMN in all these categories - perp cost of course. Any job can be geared to melee SMN is no exception, I've known this for a while I learned it to tease a RDM friend of my about melee when he'd try to tell me about how RDMs should be getting invites as heavy DDs.

Any backline job can be geared to melee but they'll always be weaker than the real frontline jobs I still wouldn't pick up a SMN/SAM for a group anymore than I would pick up a SCH/NIN(or SAM) or a WHM/NIN. The reasoning being if I'm inviting something to melee it'll be a melee just like i wouldn't invite a PLD/SCH that wanted to main heal. If people like to melee on a non melee job they can if they have the friends to let them.

[Leonlionheart]

PLD gets A- staff. They should use it all the time.
MNK gets B, same as SMN.
WAR gets B, same as SMN.

There are still huge Attack and Accuracy differences between A+ and B, 34 skill worth, which is pretty big, specially since SMN doesn't get any real good accuracy from gear.

[Korpg]

PLD gets A- staff. They should use it all the time.
MNK gets B, same as SMN.
WAR gets B, same as SMN.

There are still huge Attack and Accuracy differences between A+ and B, 34 skill worth, which is pretty big, specially since SMN doesn't get any real good accuracy from gear.

Bolded part is why a melee SMN (without an avatar) will never be better than a real DD job.

[Leonlionheart]

Bolded part is why a melee SMN (without an avatar) will never be better than a real DD job.

Well I'm sure SMN could cap with food, rings, etc, but then you lose xhit (rajas) and red curry buns that real DDs would be using.

I think some people forget the times where Accuracy was king, and for the jobs that don't have high skill it's still a pretty big issue, even in Abyssea.

[Greatguardian]

Attack is a pretty huge deal, too. Something SMN does not really have in large (any) quantities.