Raise the Minimum Requirement for entering Abyssea to Lv70 or 75

[Aliekber]

gimpy DDs actually contribute more to the fight than just chest leeches do

Because...

"Something" > "nothing".

Keymasters spend their cruor to get me TEs without having to spend mine. That alone makes them worth their weight in gold. A gimpy DD is just a slot that could go to a friend of mine that wants to burn up a new job on. In turn, I'll get to burn up new jobs while they do the bulk of the DD. That's symbiosis, and the gimpy DD denying me that opportunity is harming me in a very real sense.

we could get a bard (or Cor, Smn, Etc) who can do double march, which does contribute to the battle, while at the same time does keymaster duties.

I think I speak for every support role job player when I say "screw you". Support players get to babysit everyone else in events, get next to no thanks for it, and now you want to charge them cruor to join an XP party? Jump off a bridge.

[Khiinroye]

The key leech is also contributing by sucking up the HUGE drain of cruor that it takes to key the chests, rather than forcing that onto someone who is able to contribute in a combat sense. In the 500 chest example, that's 250,000 cruor spent.

If I were brd in an xp alliance, and was told that I'm now responsible for keying chests because someone doesn't like low level keymasters, then that alliance would find that it no longer has a bard.

Edit: I go look at something else before replying and someone else posts the same thing right before me.

[Ravenmore]

Yep thats what i'm sure everyone but the aku and his Akujima town followers would have every one do.

[Panthera]

Sigh.

arbitrary
–adjective
1. subject to individual will or judgment without restriction; contingent solely upon one's discretion: an arbitrary decision.
2. decided by a judge or arbiter rather than by a law or statute.
3. having unlimited power; uncontrolled or unrestricted by law; despotic; tyrannical: an arbitrary government.

I didn't solely decide what the word cheating meant. I didn't have any power, limited or otherwise, to decide what cheating meant. You highlighted the definition, but really don't understand it's application.

The use in question is #1. No "impulsive or irrational" anywhere near there.

There's other definitions you ommitted, which don't apply either.

I have a really difficult time maintaining a conversation with someone when I cannot depend on a common understanding of language. Saying that cheating is breaking the rules is literal, cheating death is figurative. If one cannot grasp a literal meaning, the figurative meaning never stood a chance

Keymasters are contributing...

Indeed, they make sure the bells still ring and whistles still work.

Xp per kill scales to level, dominion ops scale to level (below 75), and boxes do not scale.

They didn't mean for self buffs to work as well in Campaign as they did, so they nerfed it to the point where they'd get so little that it just wasn't worth it. Working better than expected, like 2Handed update when it first came out, and that lasted, right? But Ranger was never over-powered to begin with. As intended.

You don't "learn a spell" when getting a new summon, you make an agreement with the being to be summoned. The ability to call the agreement into effect requires the summoner job.

You don't "get figurative language."

Spirit pacts are slightly different in that you use a scroll rather than meet with the being in question. As such, they scrolls can only be used by summoners.

Different means of acquisition, but both "spells" and both are unique to Summoner. I either both should be by scrolls, or neither. Either every job should "get" the spirit by using the scroll and get Avatars the same way, or no job but Summoner should "get" avatars and scrolls. Having it just some kinda sorta inconsistent way without any real thought, that is arbitrary.

This means that every player who has every fought any mob having unlocked a Blue Mage should "get, acquire, or receive" their spells from any monster while on another job. But we don't really care about the "ideas" of things, as long as we have to do less work.

[Ravenmore]

No SE wanted to do less work thats way you can't learn blu magic for your sub job. The 2hander upadte didn't go on for nearly as long as abyssea. What they did to fix it was not all that drastic 3 str/dex = 2 att/acc. Avaters only get BPs up till the max level you can sub the job with duation BP dmg lessen with the much lower skill that sub offers. Thats also saying we shouldn't have sub jobs at all since we didn't get the spells of JAs from the leveling our main job.

[HFX7686]

What about exp bonus rings, like the Emperor's Band or the Anniversary Ring? Are those cheating as well?

[Panthera]

Ahh but you're wrong because if nobody keyed the sum total of the exp would be far less than if there is a keyer.

Good point. And thanks for disagreeing, but not disagreeing and being disagreeable at the same time. Much obliged.

While going through this, there will be white space and lines. This will done to make stepping through the logic simpler and clearer.

Let's assume something like the opposite of if nobody keyed the sum total of the exp would be far less than if there is a keyer. "

Let's assume

no one fights

and

everyone is a keymaster.

This means that

no chests spawn

because

no one is fighting

because

everyone is a keymaster

therefore

no one gets exp

because

no one is fighting monsters

and

exp chests aren't spawning

because

no one is fighting monsters

because

everyone is a keymaster

therefore

fighters are essential

and

keymasters are beneficial

but

keymasters are not essential, not even to Abyssea.


This assumes there's a "one or the other" situation. Some jobs can fight, but not key at the same time. Some can key, but not fight. Some can key and fight, in the sense of buffing. ... Maybe a ranger with a fast X-bow could pull it off, DDing quickly as possible as often as possible, but still keying. Anyway.

When I fell cleave an average of 20 mobs we normally see on average 4 exp chests. So lets say the party kills 500 mobs the keyer has contributed somewhere in the ballpark of 125,000 exp to the party in total. Not to mention Gold/Silver/Ebon lights give the party more bang for their buck in the end. So you could say that easily for the keyer that they raise well over 200k (not to mention cruor) for the party just from exp boxes and gold/ebon alone.

If a Bard does it, they are making their party fight much faster, contributing to more overall damage. But they can get EXP chests at the same time too, making for even more exp yet. They are contributing to the battle, which is indirectly related to the essential part, but still related not the less, and still doing the bells and whistles part of abyssea.

You do not have to key chests. If everyone can gather quickly and efficiently, people can still kill things for a reasonable amount of time, you know, like 2 hours--as opposed to a 6 hour grind of capping and lights and then capping them for new people and on and on--and still get some exp. And yes, Abyssea is still a grind. It's just a longer grind at once, rather than smaller grinds over a longer period of time.

[Ravenmore]

Panthera how bout you try that one exp party having the brd spend thier keys let me know how it goes.

[Khiinroye]

Panthera will arbitrarily decide that "There's no way I'm going to spend cruor to open chests for you, get a leech" means "I'll gladly do it" since his understanding of language is different from all of ours.

[Sesh]

If a Bard does it, they are making their party fight much faster, contributing to more overall damage. But they can get EXP chests at the same time too, making for even more exp yet. They are contributing to the battle, which is indirectly related to the essential part, but still related not the less, and still doing the bells and whistles part of abyssea.

You are absolutely correct a brd or whoever can do it and overall it would be more efficient. However that isn't the point of it all. The point is that a job is determined by what people want and what they are willing to pay to get for it. The keyer offers cruor to open boxes which in turn supplies the rest of the party with exp/light/whatever. It's not the most efficient way to open the boxes, but in the end it is a useful job that helps the group as a whole.

So if the argument is that a keyer is a leech and is not performing a job that is helping the party (since you basically said they do nothing compared to a crap DD) then you couldn't be more wrong.

In the end though does it really matter? Aby is here to stay as well as leeching/keying w/e. Embrace it. Don't act proud and hold your head up high and act superior to people who leech or get avatars a way you don't agree with. You may not like keyers or what have you, but this is the game we have now and it's not going to change any time soon.