ATTN: Developers - A Polite Request regarding Mythic Weapons

[Soundwave]

My exact same sentiments our thread on adjustments to relics and mythics got totally ignored for more than 2 weeks. We asked nicely for an ETA of implementation and was trying to be patient with this getting no response. On the other hand when others sulk or complain about something small they get answered. I'm not sure if I want to go that far and create a new thread for attention....

So true, I really wonder how they chose to reply to which thread etc.

[Cahlum]

I agree, we really need a timeline of when the changes will be implemented and just what changes as 30 k alexandrite is far too high a requirement compared to relics and emp weapons

[wish12oz]

But the level 90 mythics trump most of the level 90 empys in my opinion;

Math does not have an opinion, either it's the best or it's not the best or it's the same.

The one thing I find so annoying about all these threads, is that there are a few mythics that are better then empyreans, and there's a few relics that are better then empyreans. But people seem to completely ignore all of this, and whine that empyreans are amazing. Ukon, Vert, Almace, Gandiva and Kannagi are the only really good empyreans. The rest are not all that amazing. Want to know why? Because these have crit hit WS's, which are exceedingly good inside abyssea, which is all anyone really does. Mandau is better then Twash for THF, Amano and Masa are almost exactly the same comparing the level 90 versions, Apoc is better then the scythe, Yagrush is better then the club from a magey standpoint, Relic club is best from a damage dealing standpoint, Ryuhinge is better then the emp polearm, and as the OP said, Nirvana is the best thing around for SMN. I could go on but I think I made my point.

Beyond that if you look at the relics for the really damaging empyreans, they all have uses outside of just winning parses, which is all the 5 empyreans do. With the only exception being Kannagi, ninja mythic and relic are just flat out junk, especially when compared to Kannagi. Burt has 16% PDT and lets you reach 66% PDT on PLD, Excal lets you do lots of damage on mobs with huge amounts of defense or way above you level. Yoichi lets you not pull hate. Spharai and Bravura make you take less damage while tanking. Relics, Mythics and Empyreans are fine, as far as actually using them goes, some very minor changes made to make some of the useless ones decent for something or other would be ok. Methods to obtain them could use some tweaking though. But Relics and Mythics do not need this huge buff some of people think they do, especially since it's old content, and old content needs to be phased out, not remain the best thing ever forever.

You people complaining that your relic is bad now and empyreans are so easy, should just go get the empyrean because it's so easy and stop complaining about it already.

[Kiba]

Excal lets you do lots of damage on mobs with huge amounts of defense or way above you level. Yoichi lets you not pull hate. Spharai and Bravura make you take less damage while tanking. Relics, Mythics and Empyreans are fine, as far as actually using them goes, some very minor changes made to make some of the useless ones decent for something or other would be ok. Methods to obtain them could use some tweaking though. But Relics and Mythics do not need this huge buff some of people think they do, especially since it's old content, and old content needs to be phased out, not remain the best thing ever forever.

You people complaining that your relic is bad now and empyreans are so easy, should just go get the empyrean because it's so easy and stop complaining about it already.

First of all if we were still in 2009 yes relics and mythics are not bad. But of course the game has changed. Empyrean weapons have stepped in and made what was considered unbalanced in the past acceptable now.

Excal has the random additional proc of 25% hp on current dmg but why rely on that when you can do a consistent spike damage CDC with Almace?

Yoichi as well as Annihilator used to be gasp surprise type of weapons because you can do so much damage without pulling hate. Now the damage is so insignificant when standing next to a Gandiva making it questionable why even bother?

Spharai and Bravura make you take less damage while tanking....what's so great when you can using Ochain for that purpose.

So the reality is the game has changed to where damage standards are different from what it was two years ago, which is the time relics and mythics were considered great. Now in 2011 we want relics and mythics to adapt to the new times and remain a respectable class of weapons. While you make a point that people with relics why not just get an empyrean and stop complaining, it does not justify the dissatisfaction of casting away a weapon they put a lot of time effort into and just accept reality. The relic and mythic weapon owners have spoke up and the development team responded in March:

We are aware that there currently exists a major difference between the strength of Empyrean weapons and that of Relic and Mythic weapons.

In regards to that balance issue, we are planning to make adjustments. We plan to create a higher level of balance by strengthening both Relic and Mythic weapons instead of simply weakening Empyrean weapons.

confirming the concern addressed IS valid so at this point complaints due to fact it has been 2 months since this last response is reasonable.

[wish12oz]

First of all if we were still in 2009 yes relics and mythics are not bad. But of course the game has changed. Empyrean weapons have stepped in and made what was considered unbalanced in the past acceptable now.

Only 5 empyreans outparse their relic and mythic counterparts.
O N LY F I V E.
That was the whole point of what I wrote.
And most relics/mythics were not the huge damage increase you all seem to think they were.

Excal has the random additional proc of 25% hp on current dmg but why rely on that when you can do a consistent spike damage CDC with Almace?

Because on very high defense/level mobs you won't do that kind of damage with Almace. Learn game mechanics please.

Yoichi as well as Annihilator used to be gasp surprise type of weapons because you can do so much damage without pulling hate. Now the damage is so insignificant when standing next to a Gandiva making it questionable why even bother?

The damage is only terrible by comparison inside abyssea, which is over now. Outside abyssea in Voidwatch and other new events, all that hate free damage is significantly better then Gandiva simply because you won't have to constantly reposition mobs.

Spharai and Bravura make you take less damage while tanking....what's so great when you can using Ochain for that purpose.

What is suddenly wrong with WAR and MNK tanks?

So the reality is the game has changed to where damage standards are different from what it was two years ago, which is the time relics and mythics were considered great. Now in 2011 we want relics and mythics to adapt to the new times and remain a respectable class of weapons. While you make a point that people with relics why not just get an empyrean and stop complaining, it does not justify the dissatisfaction of casting away a weapon they put a lot of time effort into and just accept reality. The relic and mythic weapon owners have spoke up and the development team responded in March:

confirming the concern addressed IS valid so at this point complaints due to fact it has been 2 months since this last response is reasonable.

The concern is valid on 5 weapons, in that they significantly do more damage then the others. The same can be said of Apoc vs mythic/empyrean scythe, Relic hammer vs emp/mythic, Mythic polearm vs emp/relic, etc. SE also thinks relics will become more common with the dynamis update, we see how that is going. They also thought adding bottlenecks to empyreans was a good idea, then changed their mind, etc, etc, etc, etc.

And by your standards, they should make everything awesome even though there's new content. I want my Perdu volge, ridill, etc, etc, etc to be amazing again, cause the relic people are getting updated, so why not my stuff I put all that time and effort into getting? See the problem here? You should be happy you got magian trials and just be content already.

[Kiba]

Only 5 empyreans outparse their relic and mythic counterparts.
O N LY F I V E.
That was the whole point of what I wrote.
And most relics/mythics were not the huge damage increase you all seem to think they were.

I apologize for giving the impression that I do not see this, but I think this is a common trait existent within all three categories of weapons relic, mythic, empyrean that there will be a top 5 that stand out.

Because on very high defense/level mobs you won't do that kind of damage with Almace. Learn game mechanics please.

Thank you for your suggestion on my education, but I'd really like to see that in true reality of equally geared players side by side one with level 90 excal another level 90 almace on a high defense/level mob and the difference would be noticable.

The damage is only terrible by comparison inside abyssea, which is over now. Outside abyssea in Voidwatch and other new events, all that hate free damage is significantly better then Gandiva simply because you won't have to constantly reposition mobs.

Fact of matter is regardless of where the weapons perform there should not be this much of difference. I have yet to see Gandiva outside Abyssea, but have witness consistent output from Ukon, the difference just makes Bravura and Conqueror pale.

What is suddenly wrong with WAR and MNK tanks?

nothing I was just bring a fact if the joy is over taking less damage and tanking Ochain PLD's are a more effective choice.

The concern is valid on 5 weapons, in that they significantly do more damage then the others. The same can be said of Apoc vs mythic/empyrean scythe, Relic hammer vs emp/mythic, Mythic polearm vs emp/relic, etc. SE also thinks relics will become more common with the dynamis update, we see how that is going. They also thought adding bottlenecks to empyreans was a good idea, then changed their mind, etc, etc, etc, etc.

Problem about this is if focusing on what you are saying only those 5 weapons should be adjusted which I don't think is the common will of the playerbase. The will is to recognize such imbalances and place all 3 categories of weapons on a fine tuned balanced scale where for example" my weapon does not do this but I get this so I'm still happy.

And by your standards, they should make everything awesome even though there's new content. I want my Perdu volge, ridill, etc, etc, etc to be amazing again, cause the relic people are getting updated, so why not my stuff I put all that time and effort into getting? See the problem here? You should be happy you got magian trials and just be content already

Welcome to Trial of Magians, we are aware how you value your weapons and am introducing this system for you to further strengthen them.... coming soon to a theater near you ^^

Everyone has their view point on this and I respect yours. In honesty we can argue and debate all we want but the whole decision at the end comes to the development team's hands. You made your points and I made points, so I will stop here and focus on the main topic of kindly asking for a response. Thank you for the discussion.

[Glamdring]

there's also the fact that DPS is not the only thing relic/mythic offer. I like the kenkonken because of the overload reduction, in addition to all the other goodies as an example, Glallerhorn and Aegis don't even HAVE DPS, but they still have uses, aftermath effects on some of the Mythic WS are freaking sweet, too. This is not simply a straight DPS argument, it never has been.

The real question is is it worth all the effort to get those benefits? THAT is the part where it comes down to the individual player.

[wish12oz]

I apologize for giving the impression that I do not see this, but I think this is a common trait existent within all three categories of weapons relic, mythic, empyrean that there will be a top 5 that stand out.

Top 5 that stand out? ..............Yes, those 5 weapons stand out, and they are also the ONLY 5 empyreans that are better then their relic or mythic counterparts. Why do you fail to see this? Sometimes the relic is best, sometimes the Mythic is best, and in 5 cases, the empyrean is best if all you are looking at is DPS. The relics all still have perfectly good uses. Which is the original uses they had. Spharai was never a huge increase in damage over notrelich2hs at 75, neither was bravura, or yoichi, or kikoku or excalibur. They all serve the same purpose that they use to right now, except they are not the best weapon by 2% DPS over the next weapon down. For all your whining, all SE did was add 5 weapons that outperform their relic/mythic counterparts in DPS alone, and it's pathetic on your part to continue whining about it.

Thank you for your suggestion on my education, but I'd really like to see that in true reality of equally geared players side by side one with level 90 excal another level 90 almace on a high defense/level mob and the difference would be noticable.

That's easy enough, get someone with an almace, have them go fight hero's zones NMs without cruor buffs or atmas, and that will tell you how it would perform outside abyssea.

Fact of matter is regardless of where the weapons perform there should not be this much of difference. I have yet to see Gandiva outside Abyssea, but have witness consistent output from Ukon, the difference just makes Bravura and Conqueror pale.

Gandiva is terrible outside abyssea, because RNG is terrible. A friend of mine had Gandiva, he recently quit due to RL, but in einherjar, he would parse at about half the damage I was doing, which is about the same as a yoichi ranger would do.

nothing I was just bring a fact if the joy is over taking less damage and tanking Ochain PLD's are a more effective choice.

You heard it here first: Don't bother with melee tanks who can midigate damage, just use PLDs, and all you PLDs go get Ochain. Because it's completely acceptable to expect someone who has bravura or spharai to go exp pld then get ochain and whatever else just so they can tank. Do you see the problem here?

Problem about this is if focusing on what you are saying only those 5 weapons should be adjusted which I don't think is the common will of the playerbase. The will is to recognize such imbalances and place all 3 categories of weapons on a fine tuned balanced scale where for example" my weapon does not do this but I get this so I'm still happy.

The common will of the player base? The common people don't have relics and don't give 2 craps about them, and wouldn't care if they were deleted from the game entirely. And the weapons are already at that "fine tuned balanced scale," you just fail to see it. Ukon wins parses, Bravura lets you midigate damage and is second best. Same with H2H, Bow, and sword(except on hard mobs). You're asking for exactly what is in place right now. You can have DPS or damage mitigation and slightly less DPS. How is that not exactly what you were asking for?

Welcome to Trial of Magians, we are aware how you value your weapons and am introducing this system for you to further strengthen them.... coming soon to a theater near you ^^

I have yet to see trials for Ridill or Perdu Voulge, both of which BTW, required more effort then getting a relic.

Everyone has their view point on this and I respect yours. In honesty we can argue and debate all we want but the whole decision at the end comes to the development team's hands. You made your points and I made points, so I will stop here and focus on the main topic of kindly asking for a response. Thank you for the discussion.

You haven't made any valid or good points, just complained that your relic isn't the best thing since sliced bread anymore.

[nitsuj]

I appreciate the bumps guys, but this thread isn't a comparison of which is better relic/mythic/empyrean. There are tons of math threads out there to compare if you want.

This thread is only to ask the devs to be polite and give us some insight on what they're planning, because regardless of the arguments either way, some of us are still working on Mythic Weapons.

I'm working on Nirvana, if I didn't already say. You will not find any math to tell me it's not amazing, either

[Jamesruglia]

It's disheartening sometimes. I've graduated college, changed jobs twice, and moved to three different areas of the country, all while working towards one weapon, and it's still unobtainable with all my high levels, my gil, my crafting and my friends, without just farming alexandrite 7 days a week myself.

This. Dedicated is one thing, not having to live life is another. IN light of that, I'd say getting to have something of this magnitude earlier than everyone else is worth the added cost compared to what others pay later, if the cost is reduced. I've played since NA PC release and I've yet to come even a quarter way toward holding Excalibur.