Raise the Minimum Requirement for entering Abyssea to Lv70 or 75

[Ravenmore]

So what panthera is saying all exp from exp scroll quest to camp. ops that all you got to do is run around hitting ???s is cheating gothca. Thats what your logic is implying, even though SE added those in the game as intended. No qustion as to what they are.

[hiko]

This minority that people speak of, is not as small as everyone thinks.

if it was not as small as everyone thinks you would have no issue doing pt outside aby and then wouldn't start this thread!

@panthera
- I unlocked avatar for my smn (lvl10) doing 75 fights with another job: is my smn cheated because he can summon avatar he didnt fought to unlock?
- I have beaten maat with a single job: are all my others 71+ job cheated?
- I use my 'best for xp job" to get merit I spend on other jobs, are all my others jobs cheated because I didnt get their merit playing them?

[Arlan]

if it was not as small as everyone thinks you would have no issue doing pt outside aby and then wouldn't start this thread!

Soo true lol
Most of us dont want to be limited from playing a game. We like having choices to leach or not to leach.
Most of us choose to leach because we later tend to enjoy the jobs better once we put time skilling up and learning job as we play through the contents. Some of us play the game differently than others. But having to limit what lvl to enter abyssea to prevent leaching wont satisfy anyone.

If you are against leaching then dont do it. But if you are with it then by all means go for it.
Play the game how you want it and how you enjoy it.
But don't prevent other people from enjoying their game by limiting them on having that option.
Just cause you dont like it doesn't mean others shouldn't either.

I leached 7 jobs to lvl68 just now and Im putting my sweet time learning them from lvl68 and skilling up.
I'm having a good time because I dont have to start from lvl30 or below. I can start from lvl68 and have most of the abilities my job has and start figuring out how to put each ability to use. I enjoy having access and being able to figure things out as I go along and not being limited in not having an "Option".

Some people might leach from lvl30-90 and might enjoy learning their jobs starting at lvl90 and skilling up and gearing up with contents. Some don't. This is the option abyssea gave us, sure it creates a lot of people who dont know how to play at their current lvl, but it doesnt take a rocket scientist to learn the mechanics and it doesnt take MONTHS or YEARS to be good either. It only takes a few days to get a good grasp on how to play and cap skill ups.
But remember, Everyone has different learning curves and have different pace. So don't expect people to be EPICLY GOD LIKE ELITES just because they are high lvls or some crap.

"Im paying to play the game the way I enjoy it just like everyone else is,
I'm not paying to play the game for You."

[Panthera]

Panthera, you are a classic Scrub. Read the article, become enlightened, change your life.

If something isn't against the TOS, it isn't cheating. Per. I. Od.

Article read, interesting stuff. Now, these might already exist, I really couldn't be bothered to read that website in its entirety, nor am I obligated to, but here are some terms of my own. This time, I really am making up both a term and a definition.

The Technically, It's Not cheating Guy (noun) abrev: TING

Ting is a stickler for rules. He knows them all by heart.

Ting is fond of Warp Whistles, and codes that are an inherenant part of the game. He never calls them "cheat codes," to him they're just "codes." Ting claims to have beaten many games, but without disclosing that he either warped through as many levels as the game allows, or was in God Mode the entire time. When asked about it, he says,"Yes, but Technically, That's Not Cheating." And despite how many games Ting has beaten many games, few respect him for it. Ting calls his critics "Scrubs."


The It's not really Cheating Guy. (noun) abrev: IRG

Irg knows the rules, follows some, but not others.

Irg uses TParty to see party member's TP. Irg knows this is against the rules, but uses it anyway. He reasons that since you can already see party members HP and MP anyway, he really doesn't see the difference between automatically seeing one but not the other. So he figures that while it's technically cheating, it isn't really cheating. What he intuitively understands is that it doesn't violate the spirit of the game; really means essentially, what it is about, what defines it in an abstract sense.

The It's My Account, Do Whatever the @#$% Want Guy (noun) abrev: JERK

It isn't known whether this guy knows the rule or not. What is known is that he's broken every single one.

He's RMT'd multiple accounts. He's RMT'd Relics for RMT accounts. He's fish-botted, and uses third party A.I. tools for exping purposes. He Salvage dup'd every single armor set. He's MPK'd by every known and some currently unknown means. He hasn't been able to play recently, because he's on trial... for everything, and no one will miss this jerk.

The PlayStation Two Fanatic (noun) abbreviation: none, because abbreviating is cheating!

He knows every rule, word for word, and recites them before he goes to bed. He's not a PS2 fanatic because he thinks it holds the game back, but exactly the opposite: He thinks everyone should play on PS2 so no one can have unfair advantages that they shouldn't have. He's never taken a teleporter, airship, or chocobo; he's walked everywhere. Not run, walked--in full Dusk Armor. He won't join level sync parties because that's not fighting at the intended level. He exps on Soulflayers on War/Mnk, because /Ninja is cheating. He thinks Puppetmaster is overpowered. If he's doing well against a mob, he removes armor to make the fight fair, or uses a Venom Potion on himself, or both. He's sworn his eternal allegiance to San'd Oria, and has yet to and never will beat Windurst or Bastok missions. He wishes people would stop focusing on later game events like "Limbus" so they can focus on what matters: Expeditionary Force!

[Rie]

What does any of that have to do with your skewed views about Abyssea?

[Panthera]

@panthera
- I unlocked avatar for my smn (lvl10) doing 75 fights with another job: is my smn cheated because he can summon avatar he didnt fought to unlock?

Good question! Yes. Here's why:...

You shouldn't be able to get Katana Skillups when weilding a Polearm, that makes no sense, that's not how it works, and rightly so.

Take Blue Mage for example. An inherant part of the job is that you must learn Blue Magic while on Blue Mage. Should you be able to learn it on Scholar? Blue mage spells are applicable to blue mage and only Blue Mage, so no, not on Scholar. I think you should be able to learn blue mage spells as /blue as long as a blue main could too at the same level, that makes sense.

Similarly, Summoner spells are specific to Summoner. You must beat the Primes on Summoner, which only makes sense. The other option doesn't make sense. It "cheats" the spirit of the job. As long as you beat the Prime on another job by participating in the fight, instead of just leeching on your friends, at least that's something. But why not learn Blue Magic fishing up Nebimonites? The Prime fights are more or less difficult; it's solo, and only at level 30, and only with Carby; you learn the spell for yourself. It's an accomplishment on some level. At level 75 with 5 other friends, not so much.

- I have beaten maat with a single job: are all my others 71+ job cheated?

Your character is restricted to level until he beats his the limit break. It's about the journey of the character, in a more general sense, than a job specific sense. In the original FF, all the characters go through the same Ordeal at the same time, they weren't job specific. I've beaten him on every job; that too is the journey of the character. Similarly, Chocobo quest and mission ranks are about the character, not specific jobs.

- I use my 'best for xp job" to get merit I spend on other jobs, are all my others jobs cheated because I didnt get their merit playing them?

Good question! The stats and skills are tied to the character, and shared across jobs. So that's fine. They really should make it so that you can't just get a ton of merits on "princess jobs" so you can use them on other jobs, it actually doesn't make sense. In many FF games, if you wanted to level up a certain job and get all of its abilities, you had to play that job. That some games had more flexible design (FFXIII for example) had their advantages, they were less true to the spirit.

[Panthera]

@Panthera: I've no idea why you continue to debate against these people.

Why? Because I enjoy it.

Or I wouldn't be doing it. If I find it rewarding, I'll keep doing it. You yourself don't have to continue if you do not wish to, that's your decision, not mine, just as my continuing is my decision and not yours, my friend.

By the volume of what I've written here, and by the effort I put into each post, I simply enjoy writing--and being read, and this gives a format to do so. Also, I enjoy a spirited debate, which this certainly has been, and remains. Everyone has the right to to their own opinions, and to express those opinions. However, not all posts really advance the discussion. I am being more picky-and-choosey about what I'm replying to, just because some are rehashing points that have already been made and addressed. They might be better written, but it's been done. If I do reply, it might be more just to advance or clarify my own position rather that keep it where it remains.

There are some people who have good points, and they deserve replies, so I do. I just accept trolls as a part of it and deal with them appropriately. In other words, haters gonna hate.

[Panthera]

SE nerfed afk buff spam soon after it was found. Abyssea been out out a year, if they thought it was cheating then they would have done something bout it. Instead they add another way to leech.

SE has a lot on their plate. They had to for example, do all the work entailed in the last patch for example. There are no overnight fixes. That they haven't adjusted yet doesn't mean they don't intend to. That just isn't logical.

[Panthera]

Not true. It's always been possible to leech characters. I used to do it on evil weapons in sky and on colibri at the bird camp. Just barely anyone did because they thought 45-60 exp a kill was bad, while forgetting to realise that level 75 parties kill a lot faster. That's why this debate now surprises me. It's always been possible to leech but no one ever cared before.

In sky, the exp is in many ways incidental. The goal was to pop Despot, or farm something. Getting exp was a bonus. This of course does't apply to Weapon parties, where that was the best exp you could get, and that's why you were doing it.

Now, if someone went afk in a Colibri party, people have complained, and I kicked them. People cared about being leeched off of, and it is cared about now, too.

[Panthera]

@Akujima

I don't think that leeching is necessarally by design. SE does not intend everything that comes up, and while some things are addressed quickly, other things take more time, so that they haven't done anything about it yet doesn't mean they don't intend to.

There's no way Salvage Dups were by design. AFB was an emergent property of level sync, and was not something they came up with; players discovered it. Beastmaster MPK wasn't something SE intended, and again, wasn't resolved overnight. I don't think it's fair to say it was by intent, or that it would have been resolved by now.

Leeching is not against TOS, the rules of FFXI. It is not cheating in that sense It is however by other meanings of the word "cheating." I contend that SE knows that people leech in AFB, and it's not against the rules, so it's not cheating in that sense. Even should SE never fix leeching, it will still be cheating by other definitions.

"If you don't like it, you're entitled to your opinion. But at the same time, we're entitled to ours as well, so please respect that," -Akujima

I do respect others' right to have and express your own views. I just don't agree with those views, and I have the right to have and express my opposition view.

"If you don't want to leech, no one's forcing you to or tying you down," -Akujima

That's just it! People are forced to cheat. Someone must be keymaster by design, and most people can't engage in combat while fooling about with chest GUI. so someone must cheat, whether they want to or not.

"Every now and then I shout for an outside party because I don't feel like keying or I don't feel like farming cruor for keys so I can keyleech, and I rarely if ever have problems forming one." -Akujima

And there again, does anyone really want to open chests just for its own sake? Is it so stimulating? I think people would rather play their jobs. That's why they're trying to level them.

"There are likely plenty of people who are willing to EXP outside of Abyssea. Just gotta be patient, is all.

Sentence totally fell apart in that edit. :P"-Akujima

It happens to the best of us <3 Thanks for your reply