Raise the Minimum Requirement for entering Abyssea to Lv70 or 75

[Akujima]

Being at the top of the mountain is not the achievement; getting there is. That's why they call it achieving the summit.

Having a Helicopter fly you up near the summit of Mt. Everest (as high as a chopper can go) saying you reached the summit, is BS and nobody will officially recognize your efforts.

[Akujima]

Again targeting IT++ was what caused 90% or wipes in exp. If you got 2 IT++ beating on your party you would wipe

If you wiped on 2 IT++, your mage didn't know how to sleep (or had poor enfeebling and reaction time), or your THF didn't know how to evasion tank.


EDIT: Please stop with the "I know someone who just leeched and he's already a pro at FFXI!!!" which is just hearsay and provides no proof.

[Ravenmore]

Basic understanding of how the game works does more then level in old exp parties.

[Chocobits]

Yes. You did learn how to play on your first time through, but forgot how to be persistant the second time through. There's much to do in FFXI, all of which takes time, and I'd rather not waste time with people who burn out easily. I am just as concerned with the quality of the player as I am the quality of the character that they play. I would rather trust myself with hard working people than people who take short cuts.

Define short cuts?

Webster defines shortcut as:

a route more direct than the one ordinarily taken

This game is full of shortcuts, some of those are literal.

If you take a Chocobo to Oztroja, that is a shortcut.

If you Tele-Mea > FoV Repatriation (or Cruor Warp)> OP Warp to Qufim to get to the Shinryu, that is also a shortcut.

If you take that little path in Tahrongi that kind of sorta saves time getting through the rocky area, that's also (sort of) a shortcut.

If you realize you've forgotten a scroll of Warp (which is also a shortcut), and instead use a Mhaura earring to warp you next to the Nomad Moogle so you can sub BLM and warp back to Jeuno so that you can shout about the evils of Abyssea leeching more quickly, that is a shortcut.

All of those save time. They get you to your destination faster than the game originally intended. Are those the lazy man's way of getting around? You bet. Nobody likes unnecessary timesinks. Are any of those cheating? Nope. As the game advances, transportation has become a non-issue because the devs listened carefully to our getting around woes.

Before ToAU, WoTG, Abyssea, level sync and SMN burns were even a notion, people were finding ways to exp faster than normal or complaining that they couldn't exp fast enough. I had my very first version of the "meripo" setup in KRT in 2005, on VT mobs. I chuckled when ToA came out and people decided to lock in the eventual meripo setup for years to come, much to the displeasure of BLM, PUP, BLU, DRK, WHM and whatever other jobs I'm forgetting because I never got to party with them.

So the speed at which we exp has been steadily increasing since the introduction of ToAU. It wasn't "cheating" to prefer Lesser Colibri at level 54 instead of Robber Crabs. It wasn't "cheating" having 2 BRDS and 4 SAMS in Mamook right after the 2H update (although it was pretty cheesy). It certainly wasn't cheating when an army of BLM, fed up with non-invites mass pulled in Mount Zha for 30k/hr.

Fast forward to today. All jobs have an equal opportunity to level a job, and do so efficiently. It's still not cheating. Shortcut =/= cheating. Shortcuts are there to improve efficiency so that we have more time to enjoy our game the way we want. Are you really saying that we learned anything mindlessly fighting crabs/beetles/bats for 40 levels pre-ToAU? I learned that:

Jet Stream HURTS, and that not having a dispel on the other 2 mobs cut your exp/hr in half. I learned that within 15 minutes of my first camp, but I put in an additional 400+ hours on those mobs to REALLY make sure it hammered home.

Undoing Abyssea leeching with the game in its current state just reverts us back to that job biased, slower than molasses grinding that we didn't like before.

I STILL don't understand how taking a shortcut to the only level that matters in the game is cheating, or grind to 75+ before we're entitled to a bigger chunk of exp.

I'll tell you what:
Volunteer yourself to have all your jobs reverted to 30, and go exp them back up in Zilart onry areas, then get on the soapbox and call us lazy for not doing it.

[Panthera]

As for Panthera and his assertion that hitting max level was an accomplishment, it hasn't been an accomplishment to have a max level character since ToAU at the latest if not earlier.

The thing that you don't seem to understand is that by their very nature things that were once an accomplishment in an MMO become easier to achieve over time and thus no longer become an accomplishment worth noting.

With the introduction of better gear and abilities and better understanding of game mechanics what used to be difficult for ever the elite level players eventually will become easy enough that even the most casual of casuals will be able to accomplish it.

(My bold).

You're contradicting yourself. Here's why.

To paraphrase, what you say're is that having a pre-ToAU was an accomplishment in an absolute sense. Post-ToAU, it was no longer an accomplishment in an absolute sense. Then you say that because of various factors, things that used to be accomplishments are less so now in a relative sense. You can't have it both ways. They have to be either accomplishments then but not now, or big accomplishments then and smaller accomplishments now, but not both. As an aside, saying "worth nothing" qualifies the accomplishment to be as as naught for it to have value, in an absolute vs. relative sense.

It was never my contention that getting to 90 didn't get easier over time; I understand that perfectly. clearly it did. Getting a 75 pre ToAU was a bigger accomplishment than post, but it was still an accomplishment. Getting to 90 by leveling ones job in a way specific to or supported by that job in Abyssea is less so, but still has some value. Standing around AFK is not an accomplishment at all, such that it takes away from the meaning of having a 90 from those who put forth effort.

[Ravenmore]

Getting to max level was not a accomplishment at any time in the game. People leeched long before abyssea. Some afk leech, other leech by using poor job/subs combos, more did it with really poor gear. They may have gotten max level, but they still did it on the backs of others. Something else Drk k.club zerging of HNM like kirin in under a min using JAs and items that been in the game since CoP would you say thats cheating since its also a short cut.

[Chocobits]

Akujima and Panthera should review all of their thumbs up in this and similar threads. Do you see a patte(0)rn? That's indicative of the popularity of your ideas. I keep hoping beyond hope that a community rep will chime in one day with nothing but "Lawl no".

I understand that it sounds like you're both pent up because the game has changed and lost whatever "magic" it held for you, but umad for all the wrong reasons and it shows with all of your p(0)st ratings. If this was a live meeting, I'd put it to a vote, the most democratic of traditions for solving a dispute. Looking at # of likes on the OP, and # of views on the thread, combined with the general feeling of the thread so far, the vote would go something like this:

12 in favor, a thousand or so against, and a few thousand abstaining (cuz they're too busy exping and enjoying the game to care about these trifles).

If you want to talk to like-minded individuals about your concerns/rants, you should create a google docs with your 11 friends and swap ideas that way. The rest of us do not want.

[Ravenmore]

Climbing Mt. Everest is a peronal accomplishment, since your not the first, maybe not even the first of the season. If you see your self getting to max level as a accomplishment great good for you thats still only holds value to you. Others see hitting max level as finaly getting to start the real content.

[Akujima]

Akujima and Panthera should review all of their thumbs up in this and similar threads. Do you see a patte(0)rn?

Yes, I see the pattern. It's turning into what I expected: Leeches clinging on and sucking the life out of the thread.

[Chocobits]

Or even think of it this way:

Everyone and their neighbor as climbed Mt Everest once already. There's little repeat value in repeating it, so sometimes the helicopter ride is a nice way to get to the top and enjoy the view. Not actually climbing the mountain doesn't make it any less breathtaking when you're looking down from the highest point. Some people enjoy the challenge and the exhilaration of the journey. Some are just there for the view. You who fardels bear, to grunt and sweat under a weary life should realize that your sense of accomplishments, while justified, are yours alone to treasure, as they should be. Those that don't treasure your accomplishments, or even their own, are also justified in doing so.