I would like to start off by stating there are a number of things I like about the Dynamis update. Cheaper entry is nice for my linkshell's sponsors. I definately enjoy that there are new challenges in Dynamis. It is the difficult hellhole that it always should be. That being said, I would now like to draw a comparison; from the old Dynamis to the new Dynamis.
We just defeated Arch Tzee Xicu Idol, the new megaboss of Dynamis - Windurst. (If you don't want spoilers, hit back on your browser now). He's a blm mob with about 40k HP. He popped manafont and began spamming random aga III spells which did over 900 damage each to melees with maxed out shell V on. Defeating him yielded us the following: Mujin Tento, Mujin Necklace, and a Gold Beastcoin. I'm not even kidding, a GOLD BEASTCOIN. No new KI, no title, no fanfare, and certainly no jadeshell. He was extremely difficult to pop, and extremely difficult to beat, and we get less for beating him than we would get soloing a magian trial.
The comparison between old and new dynamis: These exact same people we just beat new Dynamis with could do a full clear in old Dynamis - Windurst, yielding over 400 whiteshells (thanks to the TH changes) and a random number of jades. This run yielded us 29 whiteshells, and the katana off the megaboss was the only item anyone even wanted. Salt in the wound, the crafting items that drop from dynamis are now worth 1/10 what they used to be worth to NPCs.
TL;DR: I love that there are new challenges in Dynamis, but the reward is disproportionate. Dynamis is harder now, and we get less out of it. Difficulty vs. payoff is way out of proportion.
New Dynamis - Windurst conquered
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05-12-2011, 11:40 AMYinnythNew Dynamis - Windurst conquered
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05-12-2011, 11:48 AMKensagaku
Actually, we still need more information on the weakness triggers. As an example, I was duoing in Dyna-Xarc and got a lucky red proc with Blade: Jin on a Kindred. Instead of the usual 0 currency, we got two O.Bronzepieces and a 1 Byne Bill. From one mob. Now, once we figure out how the procs work, we'll probably be seeing currency flowing again. For now, though, we simply have to bide our time and wait to see what happens.
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05-12-2011, 11:49 AMAnewie
Welcome to the club. Thats about 90% of content now hun.
Hope ur sponsors get their relics tho -
05-12-2011, 11:56 AMYinnyth
Even before abyssea came out, there were complaints that relic weapons were the only reason Dynamis was being done and the time investment in a relic just wasn't worth the reward. After abyssea, people were certain that the time/difficulty in Dynamis vs. Abyssea was way out of whack. Now that the changes have taken place, the discrepancy between Abyssea and Dynamis is even larger. How do I keep my Dynamis linkshell alive through this?
As for the weakness triggers, yeah we triggered a few weaknesses on the regular enemies, causing them to drop 0-3 coins instead of 0-1. If not for that, we would have been looking at about 10 whiteshells from the run. We even procced !! on 2 of the new force-pop NMs, but that didn't cause them to drop a hundo. -
05-12-2011, 11:57 AMAnewieWhat hes saying is, its harder now to get coins and a proc system isn't going to make it any easier unless the currency flow is more per group than it was before, and SE alrdy stated it wont be.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kensagaku
Dynamis is harder now in some ways and easier in some, but the reward aspect it seems is less no matter what proc system we find.
I think in SE's mind they wanted to make it easier to get relics but this just made it worse. currency was alrdy available per bazaars but for redic prices. Now, dynamis seems tougher in a lot of ways to get drops, but u can enter much more often. What did this really change though? It's now a bit harder to full sponsorship your relic because of the drop rates. Sure, the idea of being able to enter more often means more currency on the market, but more than likely that currency will be MORE expensive because of the drop rates and effort required to get the coins now. If price does shoot up. It might stay the same but I think ittle go up. -
05-12-2011, 11:57 AMGreatguardianWell, why does your Dynamis shell do Dynamis? If it's because you enjoy the event, nothing's changed (CoP zones are untouched). If it's for the reward, however lackluster, then nothing's really changed. If there's no particular reason, then, well, nothing's really changed.Quote:
Originally Posted by Yinnyth
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05-12-2011, 12:04 PMAnewie
Im guessing SE assumed price would go down because of the increase in entry time for everyone. That's very flawed logic though.
If they had kept drop rates the same, it would work that way but making drop harder doesnt even out the ratio to people entering. Making dynamis more challening to obtain relic, by gimping the drops but allowing yourself to enter more often is only going to increase the market value of the coin more than likely -
05-12-2011, 12:25 PMYinnyth
The cost of coin was determined primarily by
1). People willing to do Dynamis.
2). Participants being skilled at producing coins (many kills, TH on everything).
3). Cost of entry.
4). Drop rate of coins.
5). Willingness to sell earned coins.
6). Entry restrictions.
SE was banking on 1, 3, 5, and 6 improving under the new system, so they made 4 (drop rate) severely less than it once was. The fallacy in that method of thought is that people attend Dynamis due to the perception of reward. Point 1 (willingness to attend) will at first increase because it's new, shiny, and people can finally get their AF2, but ultimately plummit to new lows because the rewards have been undermined. Point 5 (willingness to sell earned coins) will be about the same as it was for when ancient currency was introduced to campaign. People who enter, motivated only by AF2 will get a few coins here or there which they will sell, but linkshell runs will still keep their currency. Point 6 is moot since even under the old system where you could spend less total time in Dynamis, no one wants to spend that much time anyways. Point 6 is dependant on point 1, and point 1 will die before long. -
05-12-2011, 12:52 PMYinnyth
After browsing through dozens of bazaars, I have come to 2 conclusions:
1). The primary use of bazaars lately is to list items you want people to see for 99,999,999 gil. Seriously, 75% of the items I found in bazaars were listed for the maximum amount.
2). Currency prices have increased, and availability has decreased. I went through all of Jeuno, and I found 1 person selling 1 byne bills for 10k(used be 6k), and one person selling bronze pieces for 15k(used to be 14k).
I know this is off topic, but seriously... why would you list a signet staff that has 17 uses left for 99mil?
Anyways, back on topic: currency prices still haven't dropped, and sponsoring rate is less than 10% of what it used to be. So instead of 4 months to finish sponsoring in my LS, my members can look forward to 40 months of sponsoring. -
05-12-2011, 12:59 PMAnewieSE should write a how-to guide to its player base.Quote:
Originally Posted by Yinnyth
Ittle be called, "How to make final fantasy xiv seem more fun, while developing FFXI!" -
05-12-2011, 03:10 PMblowfinPretty much this. I think it's safe to almost think of dyna as a totally new event now. We probably have much to learn, I hope.Quote:
Actually, we still need more information on the weakness triggers. As an example, I was duoing in Dyna-Xarc and got a lucky red proc with Blade: Jin on a Kindred. Instead of the usual 0 currency, we got two O.Bronzepieces and a 1 Byne Bill. From one mob. Now, once we figure out how the procs work, we'll probably be seeing currency flowing again. For now, though, we simply have to bide our time and wait to see what happens.
Seriously? 2 days and you were expecting currency prices to have dropped already?Quote:
Anyways, back on topic: currency prices still haven't dropped, and sponsoring rate is less than 10% of what it used to be. So instead of 4 months to finish sponsoring in my LS, my members can look forward to 40 months of sponsoring.
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05-12-2011, 05:46 PMAlukatwell atm some ppl still need af2's, i doubt that they spam dynamis, when they got them.Quote:
Originally Posted by blowfin
we trio'd dynamis - sandy yesterday, we had a couple procs and we left after 2 hours with 5 o.bronzepiece, that's worth 75k, splitted on 3 ppl makes 25k for everyone.
there are plenty crafts / farming spots in which u can easily hit 50k+/hour.
another point when u can do it daily, is that it can become boring rq. -
05-12-2011, 06:10 PMIlax
Funny how all my prediction/warning about this stupid update become true...
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05-12-2011, 06:14 PMAtomic_Skull
The 95 and 99 upgrades to relic better be #$@#&ING EPICWTFBBQ or relics simply won't be worth it anymore and Dynamis will be a dead event.
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05-12-2011, 06:19 PMAtomic_SkullEveryone keeps scratching their heads and wondering why SE would have done this when obviously they wanted to make Relics easier to upgrade. But I think that people are overlooking the horrible truth that's been staring them in the face the whole time.Quote:
Originally Posted by Anewie
SE never intended to make relics easier. The effect that this update has had is exactly what SE wanted it to be.
I think they wanted to stop people from upgrading relics by doing activities that have nothing to do with upgrading relics. Now you won't be able to buy mass amounts of currency, you'll have to farm with a large group.
It wasn't their intention to make Relics easier rather the reason for this update was to return Relics to their roots - A large group working toward upgrading one weapon. They didn't change Dynamis with the intention of making Relics easier, they changed it to make them harder. -
05-13-2011, 03:16 AMYinnythNo, I personally don't expect currency prices to drop at all, and currently the facts are backing up my assertion. I assume you're taking the "No seriously, currency prices will plummit after a month or so," stance, yeah?Quote:
Originally Posted by blowfin
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05-13-2011, 09:48 AMBluplanetThanks for posting a summary of your experience in the new PRISMATIC Hourglass Dynamis zone. Much appreciated and Congratulations!Quote:
Originally Posted by Yinnyth
FYI: I updated the wiki page with the info posted on the POL Update notice.
Question for Everyone: Do you know that you can still do the TIMELESS Hourglass version of Dynamis? I verified it today by talking to the NPC goblin at Castle Oztroja. Therefore, if the new version is not for you.. go old school.
CORRECTION: TIMELESS hourglass only works for Chains of Promathia zones (Dreamlands Dynamis).
Yinnyth:
1. Please confirm... 18-person alliance maximum.
2. Other players--besides your alliance--may be in the zone doing their own thing.
3. If #2 is TRUE, your alliance treasure pool is separate from others in zone.
4. If #1 is TRUE, don't even consider working a second alliance as #2 and 3 will apply.
5. Some mobs may be by-passed via sneak & invisible (magic/items/abilities). -
05-13-2011, 10:26 AMAlkalinehoeFYI the TIMELESS Hourglass Version of Dynamis only works on CoP zones (Tavnazia, Qufim, etc) and not Snow/Cities.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bluplanet
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05-13-2011, 10:45 AMBluplanetYou are absolutely correct!Quote:
Originally Posted by Alkalinehoe
I took my ALT character (does not have Prismatic Hourglass key item) to Bastok Mines, checked the Trail Markings and received the following message: "Players who do not possess the prismatic hourglass are prohibited from entering Dynamis-Bastok."
NOTE: I updated the WIKI page. -
05-13-2011, 10:48 AMYinnythI don't get it. I clicked the link the post you were replying to and your reply and the post seemed mis-matched. Heck, I can't even really tell what point you're trying to make, if any, so I'll just say what I think you're trying to say: "Currency prices will fall because accessability to Dynamis has vastly increased."Quote:
Originally Posted by Bluplanet
To which I retort: "Currency prices will not fall because even though accessability to Dynamis has increased, the desire to do Dynamis remains the same." As for the timeless hourglass version, yeah, we can do it if we want to do CoP runs. CoP runs yield about half as much coinage as old city runs, so... currency prices still screwed, sponsor still screwed, people with already made relics still lucky people.
Or wait wait wait. Are you saying that the information I posted here was widely-known? People already knew that Arch Tzee Xicu Idol was a blm with ~40,000 HP? You were already aware that he drops Mujin Tanto and Mujin Necklace? Well, consider me late to the punch on that then. But the overall point of this post was to highlight the difficulty vs. reward in the changed Dynamis areas, not to bring new facts to light. -
05-13-2011, 12:40 PMAlhanelem
Timeless hourglass still exists because the Dreamworld dynamis areas were not changed.
That said, it appears that both are on seperate timers. You can do both a dreamworld area and an original area in the same day (as long as the dreamworld cooldown timer is up, it's still 3 days) -
05-13-2011, 06:44 PMDekodaWell if that were true I'm sure they would have just employed some sort of mechanic that made currency EX. It may have upset people who try to sell currency, but I'm sure they could think of something... like making all of the relic quests only accept the EX currency, but still allowing the old currency (with what still existed, and still is distributed from Campaign/etc) to be converted into the EX kind. I dunno. That's just one idea, but it illustrates that there's definitely another angle SE could have come from if what you're saying is true. Just make revamp the currency system.Quote:
Originally Posted by Atomic_Skull
To the OP and on topic: I agree wholeheartedly. Even if procing does cause currency to drop the way it used to, it'll still make relics hard to get for 2 reasons 1.) Dynamis is simply more difficult now and 2.) Procing is actually a hindrance, and having to do it just slows things down. There could also be instances where if you lowman Dynamis (not that much of a stretch considering its basically soloable as it is) or go with a small group, you may not even be able to get procs on all of the mobs.
I just think the proc system will get in the way too much. In order to fix it the currency would need to drop even faster than before to even come close to the same reward ratio as the old Dynamis system. One could argue that currency is still just as easy to obtain because you can enter Dynamis more frequently, but is SE seriously suggesting that we spam Dyna all week? >.>
If anything, I suppose making this open to the public will at least maintain the rate in which currency is distributed to the server itself, because more players are entering Dynamis. -
05-13-2011, 07:05 PMRavenmore
It won't stop people from just farming gil and buying the coins, gil is so freaking easy to get now. Just exping will net you more gil then hours of farming or crafting back before abyssea. If you don't brew anything crour builds up pretty fast and if you do dom ops its even more gil.
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05-13-2011, 08:52 PMYinnythThis is something I severely doubt, because people need a reason to enter Dynamis. Right now the two big reasons people are doing Dynamis are that it's new and shiny, and that they can finally get those thf gloves or other AF2 they've always wanted. Eventually the shine will wear off, and people will have the AF2 they want, and it will be back to people who are just grinding it for the currency, and the even less common people who do it because they enjoy it.Quote:
If anything, I suppose making this open to the public will at least maintain the rate in which currency is distributed to the server itself, because more players are entering Dynamis.
This is however, only my opinion, and there are still changes yet to come to Dynamis. Next major update, they will likely add synergy recipes for AF2, and the recipe items will be drops from Dynamis. Depending on how good the augmented af2 is, it may cause a whole new wave of interest in Dynamis. -
05-13-2011, 10:25 PMFincat
I'm not sure interest in AF2 will bring more people to Dynamis. On the two Glacier runs I've been on this week, the AF2 continued to fall like rain.
On the bright side, those doing relic trials can finish them in one run. -
05-13-2011, 11:48 PMGlamdring
I believe the thinking was that with Dynamis able to be enterred more frequently that currency farming runs would be more frequent, but not everyone is interested in going for a relic, so the ammount of currency for sale will increase. It's a supposition, and I'm not sure it's the right one.
I still haven't done a Dynamis since the change, my LS leaders were not where they said they would be to rebuild the shell, so I just have to go off the commentary here. I am NOT pleased to see the !! proc crap added to Dynamis at all, I don't want to see jobs marginalized the way they are in Aby-I can go to Aby for that. Raising mob difficulty is fine if they give XP now, that's only fair. I'm also not happy about "Confrontation"; Dynamis always did allow multiple alliances but now on a good day my shell has to split up into several groups or some sit out? No thanks.
One last thing, has anyone noticed that with the advent of these forums that updates to Wiki are really suffering? I keep looking up stuff... and not finding it.