From Level 1 to about Level 50 we gain 15-25ish HP per level, yet after 50-60 it slows down to only 5-10 (as a taru).
Right now I only have 100 more HP than i did at lvl 75 which feels like nothing, is there any chance you could rework this to raise HP/MP gained per level up to 99? Or at least add HP/MP stats onto our Empyrean armor like you did the AF.
I know next update you can merit HP from 8>12 but this still feels like nothing and the gap on HP between races is becoming huge inside abyssea.
when I level up i want to feel stronger not look down at my HP and see that my Level75 WAR has over 60 more HP without equipment than my fully geared level 90 NIN.
Increase Base HP and MP!
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04-17-2011, 01:00 AMFearforeverIncrease Base HP and MP!
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04-17-2011, 01:05 AMRambus
all stats gained from 60-75 are small even my int i think I was like 70 at level 60 then at 75 it would be 84. I would gain 1 point of INT per 3 levels or so.
but ya I would like to see higher stats or higher caps for 99 does seem like we do not gain much -
04-17-2011, 01:09 AMFearforever
Yeah we dont really gain anything, Compare a level 75 to a level 90 in terms of base HP/MP and Atribs, then go compare a level 35 to a level 50.
I want that kind of increase so it actually feels like we're becoming stronger -
04-17-2011, 01:11 AMRambuswas like that since 60 =/Quote:
Originally Posted by Fearforever
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04-17-2011, 03:45 AMFearforever
I hope it changes before level 99 otherwise a level 40 Galka MNK will have pretty much the same HP as a lv99 taru NIN, that isnt right lol
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04-17-2011, 04:38 AMthefinalrune
I'd like to see this as well. I was really annoyed when I finally broke past 75 to 76 only to see all I got was 4 more HP and zero stat increases at all. This is horribly broken in my opinion. Not only did that level not bring a stat change, but I received no boosts at 77 either. Only level 78 brought about an actual change to my base stats.
I know its not a matter of simple mathematics, but at 75 I had ~1200 HP, at 90 I would expect to have added at least 1/5th (240) more of that added to my Max HP instead of the 130 extra I ended up with.
For anyone wondering I chose 1/5th because 90 is 15 levels beyond 75 and there are 5 fifteens in 75. -
04-17-2011, 04:45 AMSwords
Alot of it is the game was originally designed with a lv 50 cap. After the game was modded for 75, they lowered some of the aspects and gains to preserve the balance because they did'nt want us to hit the stat/spell caps quite so easily (such as 999 attack). Now we're approaching 99, it's rather easy to cap out our some of our stats/spells even in simple gear, so the stat bonuses are almost unneccessary save for WS mods.
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04-17-2011, 04:51 AMGreatguardianThis was already addressed by the Development Team months ago and all players 76-90 had their stats increased.Quote:
Originally Posted by thefinalrune
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04-17-2011, 06:16 AMArconLevel correction is a major part in many battle calculations. Even with completely same attributes and HP/MP just a 5 level boost gives a significant increase in most relevant stats. Also, we got completely ridiculous skill increases, almost 100 higher skill than at 75. That's 90 Acc/Att you get for that. Skills increased more than they ever did in the previous levels. And when you consider some other abilities that were introduced, the jump to 90 was quite huge, even without a HP boost.Quote:
Originally Posted by Fearforever
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04-17-2011, 08:58 AMlolmanthrawhm
Currently such adjustments are being made through Abyssean gear and Atmas, so there's really no point in boosting base stats other than to break the game.
While I do understand where you and many other posters are coming from (the base stat upgrades from level to level are miniscule and it would be nice to have some sort of "natural" strength), you also have to keep in mind that this game is entirely based around equipment being that it's an Everquest-style MMO, and the most popular way of that time (and even today) to show late-game/post-grind progression is through equipment. -
04-17-2011, 09:10 AMMirage
The HP/MP growth is fine. Level correction and magic/combat skill levels is where your power comes from.
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04-17-2011, 02:52 PMZyeriisI don't see why they couldn't lower the effects of the atmas (hp/mp ones), while increasing the hp/mp bases of leveling up to maintain balance in abyssea. We're going to be leaving abyssea sooner or later for 90-99 content, hp boosts are going to be a necessity outside of abyssea at some point.Quote:
Originally Posted by lolmanthrawhm
Edit: We aren't going to be so invincible and extremely difficult to kill outside of abyssea, our hp is pathetic. We're going to be fighting monsters as strong or stronger outside of abyssea at some point, with no hp or super atma buffs to protect us. This is reason enough to correct this "currently miniscule" issue regarding hp (and mp but primarily hp). Unless of course people wish to fight Rani without atmas, be my guest. -
04-17-2011, 04:48 PMDuelleInteresting. I never really paid attention to stat gains when leveling. If this is indeed the case, then it means the greater mob difficulty we see for stuff post-50 is two fold between monster stat scaling and us gaining less per level.Quote:
Originally Posted by Fearforever
I'll second your motion. That kind of needs to be addressed. -
04-17-2011, 05:39 PMGreatguardianThis. So much this.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mirage
Your HP/MP and base stats are doing much less for you than level correction and combat skills are anyways, and those have skyrocketed at a completely unprecedented rate (H2H in particular is en route to god tier). Players are getting more powerful per level right now, not less. -
04-17-2011, 05:45 PMZyeriis
HP is about survival...not damage and skills. How do these things equate? We need a higher base HP rate increase as the mobs we are fighting and will in the future fight, will hit harder? Either that or give a lot more ways to not die from 1 shots like Migawari.
I'll compromise if you prefer, give us a skill that boosts HP, problem solved. No more hp base increase, you have to work for it like any other skill. (The mechanics/requirements for said skill, I am not at the moment able to discern/think about). Still, our HP needs to go up somehow in a normal manner, other than atmas. How there is an argument against this, I don't know. -
04-17-2011, 05:53 PMAtomic_SkullActually it's 100 ATT and 90 ACCQuote:
Originally Posted by Arcon
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04-17-2011, 05:58 PMGreatguardianLevel correction enhances survival as well =/ and the best Defense really is a good Offense in FFXI. I also can't really think of any overworld NMs that pose a serious risk to anyone with our current HP pool anyways.Quote:
Originally Posted by Zyeriis
If you are trying to compare Heroes of Abyssea NMs, designed around people having access to Atmas and Abyssites, to Overworld HP totals then you are drawing a false correlation. These NMs are definitely designed around the fact that players can enter god mode, or hit 8k HP on WHM. It is unfair to apply them to Overworld stats when new NMs for the Overworld have not yet been introduced.
Would I mind an HP increase? No. Course not. Free HP is free. Do I think we need one? Not a chance. -
04-17-2011, 06:11 PMZyeriisThat is relative assumption. Considering that the NMs are extremely easy. There are no overworld NMs to compare them to really, because all of the abyssea mobs are based upon the level cap increases while all the overworld NMs are based on the old 75 cap. STR has always been on a completely different scale than VIT, hence where PLDs with hybrid builds (and PLDs who rely on HP+ rather than VIT+) started coming from after ToAU because VIT simply didn't do it anymore (enemies hit too hard for VIT to matter). That was due to the scaling of STR vs. VIT (from mobs, which have higher STR/attack in general). It serves to logic that this gets even worse the higher the level cap increases, should newer NMs and overworld enemies come to fruition (which they will/are) scaled up to level 90 and beyond, the gap will be even greater.Quote:
Originally Posted by Greatguardian
Abyssea NMs can be killed without atmas, just not a majority of them, especially the further we go down the abyssea time line of mobs. Rani being from Heroes and all, which requires atmas to defeat (HP boosts primarily). I'm not looking for huge boosts but the current rate isn't good enough. Tarus should have at least 2k base hp as a front line job by 99 at a minimum, HP is a crucial part of the game, that simply isn't getting increased enough at the current rate vs. STR/INT/attack and the STR/INT/attack of enemies, VIT is essentally useless (and has been for years, pre-abyssea).
HP doesn't have to be what gets adjusted. They could rework the STR to VIT formulas or keep enemies from dealing massive amounts of damage by hindering their STR but fixing the hp base increase per level seems/sounds easier. Or, as I said earlier, they could simply add more anti-1 shot abilities like migawari. We need a defensive increase at the very least. The "skills" mentioned have all been offensive. Evasion should not be the primary way to survive. -
04-17-2011, 06:20 PMFearforever
I know that level different makes all the difference in fighting monsters, but even so a level 60 monsters hits me for 90 dmg at 90, but at level 75 it hit me for maybe 100-110 yet my HP hasn't increased.
If a lv60 mob outside abyssea can hurt me badly what is a level 90-99 monster going to do? We need more HP if they lower Abyssites to account for this it'd be great.
If they can't do this please at least add HP to our Empyrean armor like you did the AF, just more meaningful ammounts -
04-17-2011, 06:20 PMGreatguardian
Er, let's take this apart piece by piece.
VIT is useless: Agreed.
NMs have extremely high Attack values: Agreed.
Our current HP values are not good enough: This is where you lose me. Where are you drawing this conclusion from? You are attempting to extrapolate difficulty for Overworld NMs which have absolutely no precedent in the game. Is it entirely possible that you will be right when they release Voidwatch in May? Sure. But I feel it is incredibly premature to call for a buff now before we have even seen any of the upcoming Overworld content.
As for NMs getting more Str/Attack, I don't feel this really matters at all. MNKs have been rocking 50-60 DEF for years. Monster cRatio has been capped on them, and will continue to be capped on them no matter how much monster Attack increases. Honestly, most other jobs are not much better off anyways. Unless you're trying to rock 1k+ Defense, high level NMs are probably cRatio capped on you and increasing NM Str/Attack values are not going to hurt you any more than they are now. The only difference is the monster Base Damage rating, which hasn't really skyrocketed much ever. -
04-17-2011, 06:27 PMZyeriisI guess it's more of a wait and see thing. I do not deny that I am basing this off of pre-80 experiences with overworld NMs. It merely falls to logic that things will be near impossible without a decent hp increase through normal means outside of abyssea (wouldn't fight a lvl75 NM with the hp of a lvl60). This isn't my thread though, I merely see the merit in it. I simply don't want them to add the 90+ overworld content and then find out that our HP is too low for it because the damage the enemies deal is too great. Everything else gets a decent boost to some degree, HP primarily does not (talking gear here, hp+ gear isn't usually worth it unless you're PLD, which, let's face it, got shafted for abyssea some how). I'm rambling so i'll stop there.Quote:
Originally Posted by Greatguardian
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04-17-2011, 06:29 PMRambusthe sight factor, seeing 1k hp at 75 then 1.3k or w/e at 90 makes you go -.-Quote:
Originally Posted by Greatguardian
also i do not get SEs logic in gear, you have some +hp only gear that is like +10 but you have rings that are like +60-100 ish?
plus i do not see why abyssea buffs should be an argument of why we do not need higher natural increases.
then you have the hp factor of dying in 1 to 2 hits. it is easy to cure other races cuz they take 2-3 hits ( a bit more) before they are killed, taru is more high maintenance to cure, you actually need someone that knows how to precure well. Tied of dying because people cannot react fast enough to cure me due to max hp. ( level 75 speaking/non abyssea) -
04-17-2011, 06:31 PMZyeriis
Would Job Specific HP boosting job traits be more acceptable? Hmm.
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04-17-2011, 06:41 PMFearforeverWe dont need them kind of boosts, just a natural boost that gives us more HP for our level.Quote:
Originally Posted by Zyeriis
I would expect at the very least another 10% HP than i already have this isn't overkill or game breaking but its enough just to make me look at my HP and not run away scared everytime i see a monster cast an -ga3 spell.
Also the gap between Galka - Taru HP&MP wise needs to be closed up alittle more, again not by too much just another 10% or so just so our race doesn't get eatten alive that quick -
04-17-2011, 06:57 PMRambusyeah point to my last post XD.Quote:
Originally Posted by Fearforever
really why is it that game braking not to do this? -
04-17-2011, 09:29 PMEeekPut together -MDT% (Magic Damage Taken) sets for your jobs. Especially melee jobs. Upon the Scars of Abyssea release, I finally stopped half-assing my -MDT% for DNC and THF. I noticed the impact immediately. Instead of dying all the time to -aga3, -aga4, and -aja nukes, I now survive them without any problems and it convinced my friends to also build their -MDT% sets.Quote:
Originally Posted by Fearforever
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04-17-2011, 09:33 PMFearforever
With my NIN in just my TP, Evasion & WS sets along with tools, keys etc. im using 65/80 spaces in my inventory, i cant afford the space to drag around more sets.
even so why should I have to be changing my equipment constantly just to stay alive? we should at least be able to survive some reasonal damage without 5+ different equipment sets -
04-17-2011, 10:27 PMEeekUpper echelon players have waaaay more than just 3 gearsets for their geared jobs.Quote:
Originally Posted by Fearforever
Why carry -MDT% gear? It's simple, really. A dead DD doesn't do any damage. A dead DD can't stop an NM from killing the mages. A dead DD cannot prevent a wipe.
Abyssea is full of mobs just waiting to nuke the hell out of players, and it's silly to not pursue the tools needed to survive (I learned this the hard way). This means pursuing HP/MP abyssites and defensive gearsets. Carrying -MDT% gear is really no different than carrying an Evasion gearset. Evasion and -MDT% gearsets are both intended to mitigate damage.
If you don't want to research and build a -MDT% gearset, that's your business. If you don't, though, you can't really complain about Taru's low HP and dying to nukes. You chose not to use the tools available to you.
EDIT: Here's a good place to start: 2 Merman's Earrings and 2 Merman's Rings. That's -12% MDT right there, and all jobs can equip them.
EDIT2: Assuming one has all the Zone Boss NMs and Caturae clears, Twilight Torque is a common drop from Shinryu. All jobs can equip it, and it offers -5% Damage Taken. With the gear I mentioned in the first edit, one could easily build a -17% MDT gearset, equipable by all jobs, that only takes up 5 inventory slots. That's a good start. -
04-17-2011, 11:03 PMRambusi have up to 5 sets ( mabye 6? cant remember) on 19 jobs so ya what eeek said, thing is sometimes that does not cut it or you get the flashing line, still though that does not stop some mobs from killing you in 1 attack round ( even happen to me in abyssea once on some ladybug nm or something) Was such a waste of time and curing it self from wind. Now I know why the other pt was zoing it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Fearforever
Some aoe moves just do too much damage. -
04-18-2011, 04:12 AMSelzak
Honestly, this is one thing that I'd actually like to just sit back and leave in the development team's hands.
The reason rate of growth decreases like it does is obviously to preserve balance, and I'd much rather the game keep a sense of integrity than see bigger numbers in everyone's stats list. The difference between players would cancel out, and the only thing that would be effected is the balance between players and enemies. I think that difference has gotten much closer to where it should be over the past several months and I'm happy with the way progression is currently working.
An Even Match should be an even match, a Decent Challenge should be a decent challenge, etc. At 90, these things seem to work out very well. It used to be that if you weren't on the right handful of jobs, you'd need to use your two-hour for a decent challenge.
Your taru's HP and my galka's MP can go cry in a corner together while my galka's HP and your taru's MP rule the world, because that's the way it's supposed be. Tarutarus haven't had to worry about their low HP much because it hasn't been a very important stat until recently. Galkas have been dealing with their low MP forever and are finally benefiting from their high HP like tarus have benefited from their high MP. Your taru has a big weakness in HP because it has a big strength in MP, it's give and take. You can't expect anything more than equality, so when you excel at one thing you're going to fall short at something else. Just like a Galka's MP is supposed to be awful, so should a Taru's HP. That's the trade off you signed up for when you chose your race!
tl;dr
Nah, they've done a good job. -
04-18-2011, 05:53 AMsvengalis
There's six atmas that increase hp and mp wiki them.
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04-18-2011, 05:55 AMZyeriisThere's 3 pages of discussion, read them.Quote:
Originally Posted by svengalis
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04-18-2011, 06:45 PMFearforever
If you actually read the posts at all this is regarding OUTSIDE abyssea not inside.