Free hand-outs?

Anyone else thinking they giving out too many free hand outs these days? A free coffer from the wanted dial that pops out equipment for 0 effort. Just feels like it lowers content life expectancy, creates a lack of incentive to do anything and makes people quit that much faster. Or is it a good thing? Just my opinion.

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Originally Posted by Angemon

Anyone else thinking they giving out too many free hand outs these days? A free coffer from the wanted dial that pops out equipment for 0 effort. Just feels like it lowers content life expectancy, creates a lack of incentive to do anything and makes people quit that much faster. Or is it a good thing? Just my opinion.

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It's being done is to increase profitability of ffxi.

It won't hurt the game at all, in-fact quite the opposite. Most players would never get this gear at all if not for these log-in event.s

I can confirm that I have not received a single piece of gear from the UNM dial. Spinning that dial every day on two characters, getting bits of dead mob and various junk scrolls and rocks etc.

I don't think the UNM dial is going to break anything really, I think it is intended as a fun bonus chance at a rare boss coffer that a person might never be able to defeat with a small LS on a quiet server. Added to the fact that gear is a low % chance, I don't really see it as replacing any kind of farming effort.

Many players will literally never fight any of the higher level UNM or other hard content. If you are on a small LS on a quiet server, a large part of the higher level content is a closed book to you. Shouts are very rare, pickups from shouts are very slow, and if you're fighting a lvl 130+ UNM then the PUG factor is strong in this one.

I think if you are on a busy server, with a good LS, it may be easy to forget how different the game is for casual players who can only log-in after work, and can't really keep up with busy LS activities.

I think it is nice that there are lots of different events and special bonus things, people can have a bit of extra fun spinning dials, or higher chances of farming items and gear that they normally wouldn't ever get to see.
:cool:

This might also be a way to attract more casual players. I've seen a good share of those recently. I think it makes it more attractive for people who don't have the time to play hardcore anymore.

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Originally Posted by Angemon

Anyone else thinking they giving out too many free hand outs these days? A free coffer from the wanted dial that pops out equipment for 0 effort. Just feels like it lowers content life expectancy, creates a lack of incentive to do anything and makes people quit that much faster. Or is it a good thing? Just my opinion.

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I agree. Login -> profit -> logout. It brings nothing to the community. In fact, any gear obtained by those goblins or even items obtained via login points detracts from the game because it means you aren't taking part in the content required to obtain it in the first place. I understand the idea behind it, but they took it way too far. There's no reason to be handing out end game gear just for logging in.

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Originally Posted by Pixela

It's being done is to increase profitability of ffxi.

It won't hurt the game at all, in-fact quite the opposite. Most players would never get this gear at all if not for these log-in event.s

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Not with that attitude they wouldn't. The game is easier than ever and asking people to join a linkshell or to group up with a few people attempting to tackle the same content they want should never be discouraged, but that's exactly what all this free stuff does. Why would someone bother improving their character and later helping a group tackle Tumult Curator, for example, if they got the drop they wanted from him in a goblin chest? Most people wouldn't and whether you see it or not it does indeed damage the game. That group looking for a WHM, PLD or what-have-you that was 1 player short of a UNM clear now goes without the experience because you already got what you wanted without putting forth any effort whatsoever. Now picture this happening hundreds of times each day across all servers and you start to see the toll it takes on the community.

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Originally Posted by AoiX

This might also be a way to attract more casual players. I've seen a good share of those recently. I think it makes it more attractive for people who don't have the time to play hardcore anymore.

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You could probably count the number of casual players it has attracted on one hand... with a severed finger. The game is just far more accessible today than it was years ago, that's the reason casual players decide to give the game a shot.

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Originally Posted by Diavolo

I agree. Login -> profit -> logout. It brings nothing to the community. In fact, any gear obtained by those goblins or even items obtained via login points detracts from the game because it means you aren't taking part in the content required to obtain it in the first place. I understand the idea behind it, but they took it way too far. There's no reason to be handing out end game gear just for logging in.

Not with that attitude they wouldn't. The game is easier than ever and asking people to join a linkshell or to group up with a few people attempting to tackle the same content they want should never be discouraged, but that's exactly what all this free stuff does. Why would someone bother improving their character and later helping a group tackle Tumult Curator, for example, if they got the drop they wanted from him in a goblin chest? Most people wouldn't and whether you see it or not it does indeed damage the game. That group looking for a WHM, PLD or what-have-you that was 1 player short of a UNM clear now goes without the experience because you already got what you wanted without putting forth any effort whatsoever. Now picture this happening hundreds of times each day across all servers and you start to see the toll it takes on the community.

You could probably count the number of casual players it has attracted on one hand... with a severed finger. The game is just far more accessible today than it was years ago, that's the reason casual players decide to give the game a shot.

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I'll talk about this from my perspective, I don't have a shell and I play mostly solo with trusts or with one other friend now. I used to be incredibly hardcore into this game and did every single event this game had to offer in my hardcore endgame shell, then I quit to play other games and returned to have fun in XI a few years later. These days I just play casually to have fun, I've been playing now about 6 months since my return and I've had more fun playing like this than I ever did camping hnm, doing dynamis in alliances twice a week, doing limbus on cooldown, doing legion at 3 in the morning etc. The more casual and solo/duo friendly nature of the game made it fun instead of a chore all about grinding myself to death to get a .01% drop item, the login events are nice and give me a reason to login every single day even if I only have 2-3 hours to play.

I have 3 accounts, 2 of which have maxed out character slots purely for login events. I enjoy and look forward to these events because it gives me items I would normally not be able to get. Me getting these items has zero impact on you because I will never play with you or anyone like you, also if not for them I would cancel all my extra characters and possibly go play another mmo. If you think I'm alone in this then I invite you to stand next to the goblin npc and see just how many people check that goblin every day, they enjoy it.

Also having obtained some items from the boxes it encouraged me to actually try solo some of these monsters for other items and I've been killing them, the event not only gave me some freebies and lots of upgrade materials but also the push to try something I thought I could not do before.

The truth is that for serious players these free gifts are mostly useless, they already have all the items they want anyway. For everyone else it's an exciting gift they can get that makes them a little stronger and possibly less likely to be sneered at by other players if they want to join their groups (because the top players of this game are nowhere near as nice as some make them out to be, try join a VD ambuscade group and see how many laugh at you if your gear isn't amazing), also it encourages players to level other jobs if they get an awesome weapon / armor for a job they don't currently have.

In short, the developers know better than you do, they have the details of how many players did content before and after these events and how many check that goblin. If you don't like it then don't do it, the idea that if not for these freebies all the players would be doing these fights is laughable and shows how little you understand the playerbase of this game. Compare the unity pop areas months ago to now and you'll see no difference, same for escha areas. If you can do the endgame content you will do it because fighting the monsters > rolling a hundred faced dice to get the item you can use from a random event.

If you can do this content then you're going to do it irregardless of getting a few random freebies. I don't think you actually understand just how random these giveaways are, you are under the impression that you are guaranteed the drops you want or something. You have low chance of getting any good item at all, and even lower chance of it being one you can use and a hilariously small one of it being the exact one you need. You act like it's a given people are going to get the items they want.

The odds of you getting the chest you want, let alone a piece of armor you want (in some cases almost impossible to +1 through AH alone, since the assumption here is that you have no clear and thus can't just buy mats with Accolades) are pretty dismal. For players who actually do the content it's arguably not even worth the time to walk over to the Goblin and watch that annoying animation play out.

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Originally Posted by Pixela

The more casual and solo/duo friendly nature of the game made it fun instead of a chore all about grinding myself to death to get a .01% drop item, the login events are nice and give me a reason to login every single day even if I only have 2-3 hours to play.

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The casual and solo/duo friendly nature of the game, by your own admission, is all the reason you need to login and play. If you need free stuff thrown at you to keep you logging in then the argument can be made the game isn't as fun as you make it out to be. It's all about the journey, not the goal, and that journey is completely removed when the goal is handed out simply for logging in.

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I have 3 accounts, 2 of which have maxed out character slots purely for login events. I enjoy and look forward to these events because it gives me items I would normally not be able to get. Me getting these items has zero impact on you because I will never play with you or anyone like you,

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1. That's a selfish view of the game. If you want an item and I am selling said item your being granted that item by a goblin chest does indeed have an impact on me. That's just basic supply and demand. We're playing on servers/worlds with thousands of other people, everything we do has an impact of some sort on the world around us and just because you can't see it doesn't mean it isn't there.

2. Why wouldn't you play with me or anyone like me (whatever that means)?

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also if not for them I would cancel all my extra characters and possibly go play another mmo. If you think I'm alone in this then I invite you to stand next to the goblin npc and see just how many people check that goblin every day, they enjoy it.

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While I am of the opinion that handing out items and gear via the goblin chest has a negative impact on the game that doesn't mean I abstain from receiving my fair share of those rewards. I don't WANT to be given anything for free, I want to earn it, but let's be frank here, I'll spend the 10 seconds or so to check the goblin chest every time I login for my shot at millions of gil or useful piece of gear just like you.

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Also having obtained some items from the boxes it encouraged me to actually try solo some of these monsters for other items and I've been killing them, the event not only gave me some freebies and lots of upgrade materials but also the push to try something I thought I could not do before.

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That's not so much encouragement as it is a reminder that said content does indeed exist. You need only open up your Records of Eminence quest log for that.

Hypothetically speaking, getting a Jovian abjuration: body from the goblin wouldn't encourage me to go fight the monster that drops it - why spend millions on pop items or hours farming them when I already got what I wanted, so how exactly is my server/world better off in this case?

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the idea that if not for these freebies all the players would be doing these fights is laughable and shows how little you understand the playerbase of this game.

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The views I expressed in this thread are mine and mine alone, I don't understand why you would think otherwise. Unless I'm mistaken, none of us here are officially representing larger groups of players. :p

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Originally Posted by Diavolo

The casual and solo/duo friendly nature of the game, by your own admission, is all the reason you need to login and play. If you need free stuff thrown at you to keep you logging in then the argument can be made the game isn't as fun as you make it out to be. It's all about the journey, not the goal, and that journey is completely removed when the goal is handed out simply for logging in.



1. That's a selfish view of the game. If you want an item and I am selling said item your being granted that item by a goblin chest does indeed have an impact on me. That's just basic supply and demand. We're playing on servers/worlds with thousands of other people, everything we do has an impact of some sort on the world around us and just because you can't see it doesn't mean it isn't there.

2. Why wouldn't you play with me or anyone like me (whatever that means)?



While I am of the opinion that handing out items and gear via the goblin chest has a negative impact on the game that doesn't mean I abstain from receiving my fair share of those rewards. I don't WANT to be given anything for free, I want to earn it, but let's be frank here, I'll spend the 10 seconds or so to check the goblin chest every time I login for my shot at millions of gil or useful piece of gear just like you.



That's not so much encouragement as it is a reminder that said content does indeed exist. You need only open up your Records of Eminence quest log for that.

Hypothetically speaking, getting a Jovian abjuration: body from the goblin wouldn't encourage me to go fight the monster that drops it - why spend millions on pop items or hours farming them when I already got what I wanted, so how exactly is my server/world better off in this case?



The views I expressed in this thread are mine and mine alone, I don't understand why you would think otherwise. Unless I'm mistaken, none of us here are officially representing larger groups of players. :p

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there are many players out there that would never play with you or ppl like you because they are not social players - they are solo players - i am one of those players

i have zero interest in the small talk it takes to even begin playing with social players, let alone the patience it takes to either wait for them to learn what i do or me learn what they do so we can begin playing together

even if the "free handouts" were not a part of the game anymore, solo players would STILL not play with social players, so i don't agree that removing them from the game would do anything other then make sure that solo players have LESS reason to log in

why would they have less reason to log in? because the entire game is NOT solo friendly without a few powerups along the way, powerups that just are not able to be gotten via solo play

and if its hurting social players to have a few items handed to them for free once in a while, then that is their own lack of self control that is the issue, imo

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Originally Posted by Crica

why would they have less reason to log in? because the entire game is NOT solo friendly without a few powerups along the way, powerups that just are not able to be gotten via solo play

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You consider the goblin chest a "power up"?

The game is solo friendly, no "power ups" needed. I completed Rhapsodies of Vana'diel solo last November with one of my mules using ilevel 118 gear purchased from the AH.

Wouldn't you be more satisfied taking down an NM for your gear rather than having it given to you?

Oh...I understand now, you're a merc aren't you Diavolo?

Makes perfect sense now.

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Originally Posted by Diavolo

If you want an item and I am selling said item your being granted that item by a goblin chest does indeed have an impact on me. That's just basic supply and demand. We're playing on servers/worlds with thousands of other people, everything we do has an impact of some sort on the world around us and just because you can't see it doesn't mean it isn't there.

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We have 250 people on my server sometimes, including mules, AFK ppl, etc.

Your idea that free stuff from the Gobby box will somehow affect the economy or the AH or events, is maybe true on very busy hi-pop servers. On quiet servers, it is almost impossible to sell anything, so it doesn't matter if people are getting things from Gobby dials or logins. The sales rate is flat as a pancake anyway.

I actually agree with you in principle, people should team up and defeat NMs together, and it is true that you feel a better sense of accomplishment if you defeat a strong monster to get gear, than if you just click on a Gobby box. Also it is memories for the rest of your life, the time you and some friends pulled off a surprising win against a formidable foe, and you got a cool item you wanted. Those are indeed the greatest memories.

The Dev Team are working super-hard and pouring so much enthusiasm into their creative process, to try and make the game as much fun as possible for everyone. I can see this every time I visit this POL website, the Dev Team announcements are always filled with enthusiasm and hope, the Dev Team are doing everything they can think of to keep this game enticing for new and old players.

Having special login items, Gobby dials, and bonus events, this is the Dev team working very hard to try and make new and old players happy.

So a few years ago I put my principles on the shelf. Now I'm just so thankful every single day, FFXI is still online, I can still visit Vana'diel, still see my Tarutaru and my Automaton. I'm SO HAPPY that the game is still online.

And it is so obvious to me that the Dev Team love Vana'diel so much too, and they are trying very hard to add fun mini-events and novelty dials, and they've added so many improved game features, to add extra layers of fun and novelty to adventuring, for beginners and veterans alike.

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Originally Posted by Pixela

Oh...I understand now, you're a merc aren't you Diavolo?

Makes perfect sense now.

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The sense of disdain is almost palpable, but no, I am not. I played as such years ago and was a HNMLS leader for a couple of years, so I'm very familiar with the territory. Some of those "merc" players have become the most active and helpful members of the community, contributing both in game and on FFXI websites to help players such as yourself, so you may want to reconsider your position.

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Originally Posted by Stompa

We have 250 people on my server sometimes, including mules, AFK ppl, etc.

Your idea that free stuff from the Gobby box will somehow affect the economy or the AH or events, is maybe true on very busy hi-pop servers. On quiet servers, it is almost impossible to sell anything, so it doesn't matter if people are getting things from Gobby dials or logins. The sales rate is flat as a pancake anyway.

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Well, when I said we were playing on servers with thousands of people I was speaking about active subscribers, not simultaneous users, because the world and its economy keeps trucking along even when we're not there to take part in it, even on ghost town servers like the ones you and I play on. If a casual player spends all day farming content he or she finds difficult and only walks away with 1 or 2 items of value then has trouble selling said items because people like me are making the most of the goblin chests and login points then it's safe to assume that casual player will be less likely to go back and spend their time with that content again.

The fact that it's become so difficult to sell items on the AH is one of those factors that pushed me to start posting here, in a thread about server merges, knowing that the dev team at least monitors this forum. Unfortunately, it seems the vocal minority here is made up mostly of those completely against the idea of merging servers (or playing with others at all) and trying to convince my peers/friends to take part in the discussions here on the official forums is like trying to tell a cat to sit or roll over.

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I actually agree with you in principle, people should team up and defeat NMs together, and it is true that you feel a better sense of accomplishment if you defeat a strong monster to get gear, than if you just click on a Gobby box. Also it is memories for the rest of your life, the time you and some friends pulled off a surprising win against a formidable foe, and you got a cool item you wanted. Those are indeed the greatest memories.

The Dev Team are working super-hard and pouring so much enthusiasm into their creative process, to try and make the game as much fun as possible for everyone. I can see this every time I visit this POL website, the Dev Team announcements are always filled with enthusiasm and hope, the Dev Team are doing everything they can think of to keep this game enticing for new and old players.

Having special login items, Gobby dials, and bonus events, this is the Dev team working very hard to try and make new and old players happy.

So a few years ago I put my principles on the shelf. Now I'm just so thankful every single day, FFXI is still online, I can still visit Vana'diel, still see my Tarutaru and my Automaton. I'm SO HAPPY that the game is still online.

And it is so obvious to me that the Dev Team love Vana'diel so much too, and they are trying very hard to add fun mini-events and novelty dials, and they've added so many improved game features, to add extra layers of fun and novelty to adventuring, for beginners and veterans alike.

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I'm not against the idea of giving casual players a little extra incentive, I just wish it wasn't devaluing the game in the process by handing out end game rewards. They should have left it to stuff like trusts, mounts, food, costumes, fireworks and that sort of stuff - a mix of helpful and playful.

Despite being on a small server, I've been part of a rather large LS (sometimes 50+ members online at the same time) and seen a great many of those end game rewards given to players via goblin chest. On the one hand I'm happy they have that gear to make their jobs easier, but on the other hand I know it means they'll be spending less time with that end game content now, which effectively shortens its lifespan. Why, all so someone that doesn't even care about the end game scene can feel good about themselves for a few minutes? Could have triggered that release of dopamine in other ways.

I guess when all is said and done I want to die as I lived and, perhaps selfishly, I wish the dev team felt the same way about their game. FFXIV already did a great job of attracting the more casual, mainstream audience like World of Warcraft did, no need for them to continue shaping FFXI in WoW's image, too.

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Originally Posted by Diavolo

The sense of disdain is almost palpable, but no, I am not. I played as such years ago and was a HNMLS leader for a couple of years, so I'm very familiar with the territory. Some of those "merc" players have become the most active and helpful members of the community, contributing both in game and on FFXI websites to help players such as yourself, so you may want to reconsider your position.

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The disdain is well earned, I was in a few of the merc hnmls back in the day. I know what they did and why, none of it was "for the community" quite the opposite.

Anyway, they aren't going to change it for one simple reason, profitability. Login events for ffxi are the retainers of ffxiv.

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Originally Posted by Diavolo

I guess when all is said and done I want to die as I lived and, perhaps selfishly, I wish the dev team felt the same way about their game. FFXIV already did a great job of attracting the more casual, mainstream audience like World of Warcraft did, no need for them to continue shaping FFXI in WoW's image, too.

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I don't think that login campaigns and Gobby dials are anything to do with FFXIV or WOW. These things, and many others, are a response to the User Feedback from FFXI players right here on this FFXI Forum.

I will join /shout groups for fun, not for gear. I will kill Mission bosses just to help people, even though I have wins. I am not alone. Many people will join shouts for endgame content, because they like to play the game, and gear is nice but not the sole reason. On quiet low-pop servers, there are not many shouts, and uptake from shouts is very slow. I would suggest that this is the problem, and not the evil free stuffs login points and Gobby dials.

:)

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Originally Posted by Stompa

I don't think that login campaigns and Gobby dials are anything to do with FFXIV or WOW. These things, and many others, are a response to the User Feedback from FFXI players right here on this FFXI Forum.

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The problem is that they're only using feedback from a tiny fraction of the players if/when they do that and there's no way of knowing how well those posting on this forum represent the general population. You won't catch me speaking on behalf of others, claiming that a large number of players agree with me in order to sway an argument one way or another because there's simply no way to validate such claims. My mistake (and theirs) is not taking part in the discussions here sooner.

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I will join /shout groups for fun, not for gear. I will kill Mission bosses just to help people, even though I have wins. I am not alone. Many people will join shouts for endgame content, because they like to play the game, and gear is nice but not the sole reason. On quiet low-pop servers, there are not many shouts, and uptake from shouts is very slow. I would suggest that this is the problem, and not the evil free stuffs login points and Gobby dials.

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That is indeed a problem and I've made my opinion known in the last server merge thread that came up.

I agree with you Diavolo

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Originally Posted by Diavolo

The problem is that they're only using feedback from a tiny fraction of the players if/when they do that and there's no way of knowing how well those posting on this forum represent the general population. You won't catch me speaking on behalf of others, claiming that a large number of players agree with me in order to sway an argument one way or another because there's simply no way to validate such claims. My mistake (and theirs) is not taking part in the discussions here sooner.



That is indeed a problem and I've made my opinion known in the last server merge thread that came up.

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Well, as I see it there are two main points here really.

You don't like UNM Dial, because you feel that it will damage the Unity system, in that you will be shouting for a UNM and you need a WHM, and the WHM will not join because they got all their UNM stuff from the Gobby Dial.

I think this is very unlikely. Number one, most people will prefer to use Linkshell members, as they know they can trust those players more than random PUG players. Number two, the WHM or w/e job you are shouting for, has to be online when you are shouting, they can't be doing other events like Ambuscade etc. They have to be online, and free, and wanting to farm that specific UNM. And for your theory to work, that person also has to have obtained the drops from that UNM already, via Gobby Box. I would describe the odds of this situation occurring as microscopic. The odds of it happening so often that it affects the UNM system, are basically too small to even compute. Especially as the Gobby Dial seems to give random junk instead of gear, around 99% of the time. I still haven't got a single piece of gear from the UNM dial after many attempts.

The second point is that you have to balance the Pros and Cons. The Cons I have detailed above, are incredibly tiny and unlikely. The Pros of having "fun mini-games and timed events with random lucky stuff" are that MANY people really enjoy that kind of fun. People even pay $$$ for extra content IDs, just to do Login Points and to spin the Gobby Dials. People enjoy it. People pay extra subs for it. Paying extra subs keeps the game online.

I think complaining about things that other people enjoy, and they are paying subs for it, is actually missing the big picture, which is that the game needs all the subs it can get, and SE are adding fun mini-game / event content because they know that a lot of people enjoy that kind of stuff. I think it is good that people enjoy FFXI, and pay subs. Anything else is just opinions, opinions which would mean nothing at all if the game was offline due to lack of subs.

:cool:

It made me look up unity wanted NMs cause I didn't know what they were so, raises awareness of the content I guess. If you get a NQ piece you'll still have to fight the NM to upgrade it.

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Originally Posted by Stompa

You don't like UNM Dial, because you feel that it will damage the Unity system, in that you will be shouting for a UNM and you need a WHM, and the WHM will not join because they got all their UNM stuff from the Gobby Dial.

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My feelings towards the free hand-outs extends to quality of rewards from the special dial as well as all the campaign-specific dials such as the UNM one currently in play and no, it's not about people getting "all their UNM stuff from the Gobby Dial", it's getting anything at all from it. It all has an impact, be it positive or negative, to some degree and that is the case with each and every coffer popped everyday. The AH suddenly has more UNM items available and players now have access to more of their gear, NQ and HQ alike, all of that without a single second spent taking part in Unity Wanted Battles at all. Going a step further, you have to consider the effect it has on player interaction, both with others in the game and the content itself. Casual players like Cabalabob who don't pay much attention to RoE may pop the chest and think "Oh wow, where's this come from?" then proceed to attempt the battle on their own or with LS mates/friends/PUGs in order to get gear or items to +1 whatever they got. Raising awareness is always a positive.

It goes the other way, too, of course. For example, those few Celine Vines that might have kept you fighting the UNM til you got enough to +1 your gear will now have you leaving the fight early, not enjoying that final fight that will be remembered for the WHM that solo'd it at 1%. Those few Sarama hides you got from the dial and you sold on the AH will now be bought by a BLU so he can +1 the Tanmogayi he got from his daily dial, making him decide against taking part in a late night Sarama run with his LS mates because he already got what he considered its best drop, in turn denying him access to the Tumult Curator fight they'd spontaneously decide to do one night down the road. Basically, the butterfly effect.

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The second point is that you have to balance the Pros and Cons. The Cons I have detailed above, are incredibly tiny and unlikely. The Pros of having "fun mini-games and timed events with random lucky stuff" are that MANY people really enjoy that kind of fun. People even pay $$$ for extra content IDs, just to do Login Points and to spin the Gobby Dials. People enjoy it. People pay extra subs for it. Paying extra subs keeps the game online.

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The goblin dials aren't mini games at all, they're simply a brief menu of options. While receiving nice gear is something that might bring you joy, I'm not sure how you find navigating said menu to be fun. :p

Again, I have nothing against those goblin chests, but I do wish they weren't handing out stuff we should ideally all be out there playing to get a hold of. I thought Escha/Reis made for a nice return to more old school battlegrounds with content rising in difficulty as you progressed through the ranks... then a lot of those drops got handed to us for free via goblin dials. Was that really necessary to keep the more casual among us interested in logging in? I'm quite certain they'd have been just as happy with other rewards.

Also, I find the claim that people are paying $13/month or more for content IDs solely to roll the dice at the goblin dials you yourself claim give random junk 99% of the time a bit much. Lots of people pay for multiple accounts, myself included, but since the goblin dials and login points started I have yet to come across a single person claiming that was the reason they were doing it. Does anyone here do that?

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I think complaining about things that other people enjoy, and they are paying subs for it, is actually missing the big picture, which is that the game needs all the subs it can get, and SE are adding fun mini-game / event content because they know that a lot of people enjoy that kind of stuff. I think it is good that people enjoy FFXI, and pay subs. Anything else is just opinions, opinions which would mean nothing at all if the game was offline due to lack of subs.

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If you are paying $13/month to roll the dice on gear from the goblin dial and enjoy it, that's fine. As you know, I'm all for providing options. If you believe charging people $13/month to roll the dice at the goblin dial is a good way to encourage people to return/subscribe to a long running MMORPG like Final Fantasy XI then I will vehemently disagree.

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Originally Posted by Cabalabob

It made me look up unity wanted NMs cause I didn't know what they were so, raises awareness of the content I guess. If you get a NQ piece you'll still have to fight the NM to upgrade it.

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You're right about raising awareness, I suppose. You can upgrade the gear simply by buying the materials from the AH/bazaars, though.

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Originally Posted by Diavolo

Also, I find the claim that people are paying $13/month or more for content IDs solely to roll the dice at the goblin dials you yourself claim give random junk 99% of the time a bit much. Lots of people pay for multiple accounts, myself included, but since the goblin dials and login points started I have yet to come across a single person claiming that was the reason they were doing it. Does anyone here do that?

If you are paying $13/month to roll the dice on gear from the goblin dial and enjoy it, that's fine. As you know, I'm all for providing options. If you believe charging people $13/month to roll the dice at the goblin dial is a good way to encourage people to return/subscribe to a long running MMORPG like Final Fantasy XI then I will vehemently disagree.

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I do just that, as I've already said. I have capped character slots for these events, I enjoy doing them every day as a chance to scratch that lottery card to get something nice. I also know that a ton of other people do the same on Asura, I know because there is an army of level 1 characters with ?? next to their name checking that box every day. It's a zerg rush at jp midnight.

The gobbie boxes are a great addition, I'm really glad they added it and I can genuinely say that I probably would of left and gone back to one of my other mmorpg titles by now if not for the few nice items I have obtained from them, mainly because they gave me a nice item at a point when I was bored and had nothing I could do because my gear isn't good enough and the "community" sucks. They do the most important thing they were added to do, give casual players an incentive to log-in every day. For an mmo the main way you keep people playing is to keep them coming every day to keep the addiction in check, when people start skipping days they start losing the addiction.

I've played a lot of these games and most of them have some system that makes you log-in every day, this is the one FFXI chose.

If you don't like it then that's fine, you don't have to do it. You lose nothing from not doing it because you can get whatever you want anyway, it's not really for you as such because you're already heavily invested and here to stay. You have reason enough to log-in, you have the ffxi world as your oyster.

End of the day, you are a player telling the devs you don't like an incredibly popular piece of content. These are people that have all the server logs of everything, this is their job and you're back seat driving telling them that all these players who enjoy it are wrong and they should remove it because you know better than them.

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Originally Posted by Pixela

I do just that, as I've already said. I have capped character slots for these events, I enjoy doing them every day as a chance to scratch that lottery card to get something nice. I also know that a ton of other people do the same on Asura, I know because there is an army of level 1 characters with ?? next to their name checking that box every day. It's a zerg rush at jp midnight.

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You pay for 33 characters or more across 3 content IDs, spend time logging into all of them daily for login points/Goblin chests, and you know for a fact there are lots of other people on Asura doing the same? You've painted quite a picture here when paired with the comments about your unwillingness to play with others (save for a friend).

Asura is still an active server and you likely already know like-minded individuals there, some of whom probably also post here. I don't see why you couldn't obtain all the gear you've already received from the goblin chests and far more teaming up with a few other people in a social setting. I mean, you're likely spending an hour everyday just cycling through all your characters.

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The gobbie boxes are a great addition, I'm really glad they added it and I can genuinely say that I probably would of left and gone back to one of my other mmorpg titles by now if not for the few nice items I have obtained from them, mainly because they gave me a nice item at a point when I was bored and had nothing I could do because my gear isn't good enough and the "community" sucks.

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...says the person that doesn't play with others?

FFXI has a strong community to this day, even on the smaller servers. My time on Asura was limited, but I accomplished a great deal in a very short amount of time with people I had only just come to meet there. I'd have made it my permanent home if not for some good friends and longtime acquaintances still playing on Cerberus. Their interest in the game has sharply declined as of late, so maybe I'll see you soon enough. ;)

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If you don't like it then that's fine, you don't have to do it. You lose nothing from not doing it because you can get whatever you want anyway, it's not really for you as such because you're already heavily invested and here to stay. You have reason enough to log-in, you have the ffxi world as your oyster.

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We all do. Take advantage of it.

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End of the day, you are a player telling the devs you don't like an incredibly popular piece of content. These are people that have all the server logs of everything, this is their job and you're back seat driving telling them that all these players who enjoy it are wrong and they should remove it because you know better than them.

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While I think you may be overestimating the development team's understanding of the day to day workings of their worlds, that's not quite what I've been saying.

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Originally Posted by Stompa

I disagree with you that it is anyone's business if Person X really enjoys Logins and Gobby Dials. It is nobody else's business! It really doesn't affect the economy, or LS events, or anything. The effects are tiny. Nobody is stopping you from fighting Tumult with your LS mates. I think it is a bit wrong for you to say that some person who enjoys spinning Gobby Dials and doing Login Events is going to destroy your LS Tumult Event by somehow undermining the marketplace and making LS members unwilling to join in. I would say that is ridiculous!

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It can and does affect the economy, event participation and such, to wildly varying degrees. Hand a crafter a Kupo Shield and see what that does to cursed gear prices on your server.

All of the UNM materials have crashed hard in price, so it does effect the economy. Look at that person who spends a lot of RL money and time with all those mules just to do this campaign lol. I can't believe people would do that just for UNM, you realize how easy to kill most of these are? The only hard one is the PW2 and he can be beaten with a party of 6~8 well geared players. The drops aren't even the best anyway.

I gotta be honest in that I've lost interest arguing with you in this pointless back and fourth, I simply wanted to point out that a large part of why I play are these log-in events (since you asked) and they are the reason I pay +$20 to $30 more than I would normally pay on a monthly basis.

Hopefully next months will be event better, more AB# keys would be great. Jovian body I got last month made me really happy.

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Originally Posted by Angemon

All of the UNM materials have crashed hard in price, so it does effect the economy. Look at that person who spends a lot of RL money and time with all those mules just to do this campaign lol. I can't believe people would do that just for UNM, you realize how easy to kill most of these are? The only hard one is the PW2 and he can be beaten with a party of 6~8 well geared players. The drops aren't even the best anyway.

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The prices will go back up in a month after the event ends, go do voidwatch and farm pouches maybe?

It's money well spent to me honestly, I enjoy it greatly. You play the game how you want to play it and I'll play it how I want to. If that bothers you, sad day for you.

I love the campaigns they definitely keep me subbed when I would otherwise let it drop.

Do people do Unity for gil? Is that really something we have to worry about?

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Originally Posted by detlef

Do people do Unity for gil? Is that really something we have to worry about?

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If they did, you'd expect more people to do unity.

I am actually excited to see if some of the mats I need to upgrade an item I got from the gobbie box are now available for sale... since it was an NM that only drops generally meh items and is a cactaur which, lol, ain't nobody got time for that.

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Originally Posted by detlef

Do people do Unity for gil? Is that really something we have to worry about?

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Yeah but there are far better ways to make gil, not sure why anyone would bother doing it for gil outside of double drop.

Most of you are missing the point - you're arguing that it doesn't matter if we get free UNM items everyday because they aren't a big part of the economy. Well, at what point do you stop and say "Ok, that IS a big part of the economy" and maybe we shouldn't be getting it for free? Escha abjurations are a big part of the game. Cursed gear is a big part of the game. Yet here we are getting even the nicest of that gear given to us on a silver platter and you don't think it has an impact? Ok, so why not just have an R/E/M/A dial next month where we run the chance of getting completed weapons? If end game gear doesn't have an impact on the economy and the game as a whole then I don't see how the weapons will either.

I mean, really...

It has an impact, what people are disputing is your assertion that it's a negative impact. People have said above that one of the things that keeps them playing is the dial. This is *good* for the economy.

When I got a jugo kukri from the gobbie box I went and bought all the items to upgrade it from the AH. That's *good* for the in-game economy. I would have bought nothing otherwise.

It's also clearly increased the supply of 1-75 equipment on the AH. Anytime I get some bizarro gear and go to put it on the AH there has almost always been one put up already. That's good, it means people are participating in the economy.

Obviously you're meaning to be ridiculous with your REMA dial idea up there, but as long as they weren't completely finished it would probably increase economic activity in game because more people would want to buy the currencies/items they needed to finish those items. There are actually a lot of players that entirely forego making super weapons because they are so hard to make so... yeah, making them easier would probably increase the people doing it, at least for some time.

At any rate no one is suggesting they put superweapons on the gobbie dial (obviously) - but for causal players the gobbie dial is something that keeps people playing and paying for the game. Maybe they aren't playing it the way you'd like them to, but that doesn't mean their money isn't worth the same amount to SE.

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Originally Posted by Olor

Obviously you're meaning to be ridiculous with your REMA dial idea up there

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No more or less ridiculous than receiving top tier abjurations, cursed gear and UNM weapons/gear. We already get the currency given to us via goblin chests.

Serious question: at what point do you consider the rewards too much?

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Originally Posted by Diavolo

No more or less ridiculous than receiving top tier abjurations, cursed gear and UNM weapons/gear. We already get the currency given to us via goblin chests.

Serious question: at what point do you consider the rewards too much?

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Abjuration dial was probably too much but I think the Unity dial is harmless.

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Originally Posted by Diavolo

No more or less ridiculous than receiving top tier abjurations, cursed gear and UNM weapons/gear. We already get the currency given to us via goblin chests.

Serious question: at what point do you consider the rewards too much?

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As long as it stays a gamble it's all the same to me. Your chances of actually recieving something good are pretty slim as it is.
The Unity thing is a double roulette already, you're not getting the gear/items directly from the gob but a reward chest, which may contain a high level item but usually contains crap.
As for the abjuration dial; Even if you get a top tier abjuration you'll still have to buy the cursed item and most of the time the gob'll hand you worthless level 75 era abjurations to use as toilet wipes.

I'll probably go "Hold on, wait a second" once moogles and goblins start handing out free R/E/M weapons, or when you can use that dial more than once a day per character.

That doesn't quite answer the question, Stompa.

Some players spent months farming the items we're getting for free from the gobbie dials. Given your words about handing out RMEs, would you think it was safe to assume those players aren't happy either?

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Originally Posted by Diavolo

That doesn't quite answer the question, Stompa.

Some players spent months farming the items we're getting for free from the gobbie dials. Given your words about handing out RMEs, would you think it was safe to assume those players aren't happy either?

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I camped Spurrer Beret NM from 2009 to 2012. It dropped at 1/500~ after three years of soloing that angry fungaloid and kiting it up and down the tunnels on my PUP. I was so proud of my Spurrer Beret.

Spurrer Beret drops all the time from Gobby Special dial now, and I believe it was added to one of the seasonal costume events too.

Do I complain about this? No! I don't care at all. I enjoyed the solo battles. And this is my point. If I heard you shouting for Unity or Escha/Reisen NMs, I would join you even if I had the gear. Because I like to play the game. I like to battle mobs. I join events just for the thrills and the triumphant win feels.

Similarly, you mentioned earlier how LS members won't join LS events because they already have gear. What kind of LS member is that? When I was on a busy and high-quality Linkshell, if they did an event that meant I was doing the event too. If I had the gear, it did not matter. If I was getting any treasure, it did not matter.

I was very proud to be on the LS, and very happy to support all of their events whenever I was online. That is what a good LS should be. You are part of a team, you are proud to be part of that team, and you will do events because of loyalty to your LS friends, not because you don't have the gear already.

RME is different, because people who spent seven years building a Mythic, were doing nothing else. No fishing, no crafting. Just working on that Mythic constantly for many years. This is completely different to doing casual LS events for a month, or camping a stubborn funguar NM for a few hours a week for three years lol.

RME required 100% devotion, at the expense of everything else in the game. It was completely tunnel-vision "no time to talk!" busy busy busy. This is unlike anything else in the game.
:rolleyes:

As far as I am reading the things you post, you seem to be under the assumption that noone has to do content anymore because you can get whatever you desire by speaking to the goblins.
Far from it, the chance of getting something nice is incredibly small and getting the exact item you want is less than 1%.
It's really not the magical bacon button you make it out to be.

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Originally Posted by Stompa

I camped Spurrer Beret NM from 2009 to 2012. It dropped at 1/500~ after three years of soloing that angry fungaloid and kiting it up and down the tunnels on my PUP. I was so proud of my Spurrer Beret.

Spurrer Beret drops all the time from Gobby Special dial now, and I believe it was added to one of the seasonal costume events too.

Do I complain about this? No! I don't care at all. I enjoyed the solo battles. And this is my point.

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I often did Dynamis twice a week, almost every week from 2004 to 2008 with my linkshells. It took countless runs and lord only knows how much lost EXP before I had my first full relic gear set, Shadow Mantle and Shadow Ring. Much currency was farmed and I eventually got an Aegis and Excalibur out of it all. I was so proud of the progress my linkshells made.

That relic gear, Shadow Ring, Shadow Mantle and Dynamis currency drops all the time from Gobby Special Dial now and the currency even washes ashore on Mog Gardens.

Do I complain about this? No! I don't care at all. I enjoyed the battles. And this is my point - let's just add a REM Dial!

;)

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RME required 100% devotion, at the expense of everything else in the game. It was completely tunnel-vision "no time to talk!" busy busy busy. This is unlike anything else in the game.

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No, it doesn't. You can spend seven years casually working your way to an RME or you can be 100% devoted to it over the course of weeks/months. No one is holding a gun to your head forcing you to work on an RME weapon when you logon. I actually have several of them in the works, no rush to complete any of them.

But again, I am curious - at what point do you think the gear/items coming from the goblin chests are too much? Is everything up to fully upgraded RME weapons where you draw the line?

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Originally Posted by Diavolo

I often did Dynamis twice a week, almost every week from 2004 to 2008 with my linkshells. It took countless runs and lord only knows how much lost EXP before I had my first full relic gear set, Shadow Mantle and Shadow Ring. Much currency was farmed and I eventually got an Aegis and Excalibur out of it all. I was so proud of the progress my linkshells made.

That relic gear, Shadow Ring, Shadow Mantle and Dynamis currency drops all the time from Gobby Special Dial now and the currency even washes ashore on Mog Gardens.

Do I complain about this? No! I don't care at all. I enjoyed the battles. And this is my point - let's just add a REM Dial!

;)

No, it doesn't. You can spend seven years casually working your way to an RME or you can be 100% devoted to it over the course of weeks/months. No one is holding a gun to your head forcing you to work on an RME weapon when you logon. I actually have several of them in the works, no rush to complete any of them.

But again, I am curious - at what point do you think the gear/items coming from the goblin chests are too much? Is everything up to fully upgraded RME weapons where you draw the line?

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On the "7 years or a few months depending on effort" [paraphrased] you know that is not true at all. It took him seven years to build a Mythic, on level 75 and eventually lvl 99. With all the gating restrictions etc. in that era too. He put in 100% effort, despite being a parent with a full-time job, he spent all of his free non-parenting non-working time on his Mythic.

Today you can of course build a RME much easier. Mainly because of ilvl, and the easing of gating restrictions. So you are correct that if a person takes months or years building RME today, is related to effort. But it is not true of building a Mythic in the 2006-2012 years.

I farmed 1500 HMP for my first Empy, it took me almost three years of migraine War procs with a dozen weapon types lol. Do I complain when people get free HMP in Ambuscade or Gobby boxes? No. I hope it makes them happy.

You are joking obviously when you say "there is currency washing ashore so lets give away free RME weapons in Gobby dials" [paraphrased]. You know as well as I do that farming a RME involves a lot of effort, many thousands of currency items. The occasional free piece of currency is just a lucky bonus, it is a drop in the ocean compared to the full required amount of currency.

The ilvl issue keeps coming up, because if we are honest, ilvl made RME soloable. But ilvl is also relevant to things like Spurrer Berets etc. In 2013, I discovered that overnight my Spurrer Beret had gone from being "very nice!" to being "useless junk" because ilvl had arrived and scorched earth on everything from the old game. I had loads of nice lvl 75-99 stuff, which became obsolete overnight. I was actually quite /sadface about that.

Also I farmed 30~ lvl 99 Magian Weapons, including the 6000~ mob kills trials. 6000~ mobs was a lot of kills at lvl 99 without trusts or ilvl, it was very very slow work. All those Magian Weapons also became total junk overnight, when ilvl arrived. "Occasionally attacks 2-4 times" became "always misses 1-4 times!"

So what I'm saying is that many of us have farmed intensively for gear, pre ilvl, and seen it reduced to worthless junk overnight. That is why I can't join you in a big QQ session, just because some Abjurations or Unity weapons that took you a few weeks to farm, have dropped randomly to other players in lucky (and unusual) Gobby dial rolls.

Your Abjuration gear is still 119 lvl, still useful. Why should you feel sad that other people got this gear by being lucky. My Moghouse is full of Magians like WSDMG+10%, Occasionally-attacks-2-to-4-times Magian weapons that I worked really hard for, and can never use at all in any current game content. I should be upset about that but I'm not really.

I would rather have my Magians drop from Gobby Dial, as 119 versions, because that would mean that I too could finish building my Magians to 119. And I would be happy that I had those 119 items, and not being upset that some lucky people got them for free from a lucky Gobby moment.

But again, RME is a huge time-sink. It is not in the same category effort-wise as Unity NM drops, or Abjurations, or Magians - even though some of the Magians took ages to finish. RME is a legendary weapon with a legendary amount of effort involved. That is why they don't drop from Gobby boxes.

:cool: