Will the recent Delve changes also apply to the new Delve II?

With the recent shifts in the game from the 18-man parties of old to 6-man, it would be expected that the newest version of Delve would follow this trend. However, some confirmation would be nice so that we can start figuring out if we're going to need to wrestle together some extra people to fill out our linkshells.

Greetings!

The below Delve adjustment that took place in the February version update will also be applied to the new Delve content that will be implemented in the March version update. :)

• The HP of NMs appearing in fractures now varies based on the number of party members.
  The values remain the same for parties of eighteen players.

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Originally Posted by Camate

Greetings!

The Delve adjustments that will take place in the March version update will apply to both the current and new Delve content. :)

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That wasn't the question.

That doesn't answer the question lol.

Apologies! I edited my post above since the information was off. I hope this answers the OP's question.

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Originally Posted by Camate

Apologies! I edited my post above since the information was off. I hope this answers the OP's question.

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Thanks. Glad to see the new content will keep options open.

Lame, especially if the rewards for a 6 man are the same as 18man like it is now.

Kinda agree with Draylo here because 6-person version of delve is not very inclusive of alot of jobs compared to running an alliance setup.
Making a 6 person version available at the update launch just encourages conservative strategies (oh lets just throw some combination of mnk,brd,whm,sch,pld,rng only at everything)

Ive already done the previous delve areas a ton of times, but adding a 6 person version pretty much killed off anyone doing anything larger than 6 person version. I'm concerned that you've pretty much sealed off any hopes for 18 person runs of new delve for alot of your players

In a lot of ways, people wanted 6 man Delve to make it easier, so people could get wins again, instead it only sealed their fate by making it so only the best of players who already have the drops can really do the content, and on top of that making it so profitable with few people via craft materials that taking more people became even less desired!

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Originally Posted by Camate

Greetings!

The below Delve adjustment that took place in the February version update will also be applied to the new Delve content that will be implemented in the March version update. :)

• The HP of NMs appearing in fractures now varies based on the number of party members.
  The values remain the same for parties of eighteen players.

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Won't there be overpopulation/lag issues? Too much stress on the server handling the instancing of Yorcia zones?
It was already a mess when only full alliances could enter, with the previous 3 Delve zones. With so many much more groups able to enter from day 1 it feels like lag is going to be even worse.

Also, while this wasn't really a problem for 10+ months old content (first 3 delve zones) I feel it's totally unrealistic and unbalanced that the number and quality of drops you can get from killing a Fracture megaboss with 18 people is exactely the same as the amount you get from killing it with 6 people.
Seriously, it makes no sense.
Within limits, just like difficulty and HP scales according to the number of people present, even the amount of plasm and number/quality of drops should scale.
It seriously makes no sense to give all this advantage to small groups. What's even the purpose of going there with an alliance there?
It's completely unrealistic.

I really like the idea of scaling content, but having it available from day1 and with the same drop rates is really disappointing, from my personal point of view.

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Originally Posted by Demonjustin

In a lot of ways, people wanted 6 man Delve to make it easier, so people could get wins again, instead it only sealed their fate by making it so only the best of players who already have the drops can really do the content, and on top of that making it so profitable with few people via craft materials that taking more people became even less desired!

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yeah. I thought the point of 6-person delve was to make it easier for players who haven't cleared the content to complete it. My LS does not have players that can complete it, either on 18 people or with 6. It's not very helpful to basically make it so the only way to complete 6-person delve is to already have the drops already :(

I would much prefer to see the difficulty lowered and the number of drops/amount of plasm reduced.

Or join a linkshell.... Why should SE cater to you because you don't have friends or the playtime for a MMO? You have plenty of content you can do casually, the game shouldn't be dumbed down just for you.

Come on, Draylo. No one attempts to dumb down the game like hardcore players do. It's not noobs running fish bots to fund their RMEs, automating the game with spellcast and other tools, and exploiting all the exploits that can possibly be exploited. It's not so much that they want a challenge. It's that they want exclusivity. "I can get this and you cannot." Whether they get it by hook or by crook seems to be irrelevant judging by their actions.

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Originally Posted by Draylo

Or join a linkshell.... Why should SE cater to you because you don't have friends or the playtime for a MMO? You have plenty of content you can do casually, the game shouldn't be dumbed down just for you.

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I am in a linkshell. Please read my comments if you're going to reply to them. My LS hasn't been able to clear the fights. They already used the dev time to make the fights adjust based on number of people who entered - it seems like if the only thing that did was make it so people who already cleared it have less incentive to take people who haven't, then the dev time spent was wasted. I am suggesting they adjust the fights so that folks who don't cheat with automated gear switching can also clear them. If the content is not hard enough for you after they adjust it - maybe turn off your spellcast, and try pressing buttons to switch your gear with legal macros.

You sound like a very bad player, I love the angst you have towards people who are successful in this game. You don't even need to gear swap much anymore, SE has created gear that serves multi-purpose roles and you don't need as much. Stop being such a bad and actually see how you can improve. How about the fact myself and others beat this with no mega boss gear when it first came out? How do you think we were able to do that?

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Originally Posted by Olor

I am in a linkshell. Please read my comments if you're going to reply to them. My LS hasn't been able to clear the fights. They already used the dev time to make the fights adjust based on number of people who entered - it seems like if the only thing that did was make it so people who already cleared it have less incentive to take people who haven't, then the dev time spent was wasted. I am suggesting they adjust the fights so that folks who don't cheat with automated gear switching can also clear them. If the content is not hard enough for you after they adjust it - maybe turn off your spellcast, and try pressing buttons to switch your gear with legal macros.

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Its players like u that ruin the fun of challenging content for hardcore players like me or draylo, we consistently beat all delve i.e bee shark trex and their are plenty of us in linkshell that dont use "automated gear changer" the fact that u cant win sounds like a you problem.... My advice to you would be, Suckless?

A community that constantly cheats forfeits both its right to complain about others wanting content to be made easier or more accessible as well as its right to look down on anyone.

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Originally Posted by Camiie

A community that constantly cheats forfeits both its right to complain about others wanting content to be made easier or more accessible as well as its right to look down on anyone.

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You completley mis-read/and or mis-interpreted what i said, constantly cheat a likely excuse as to why u cant beat tojil, whtever makes u sleep eaiser at night... A community that constantly QQs over not being able to beat current Delve that has been nerfed way way down forfeits their right to cry over it...


ps: i have beat tojil a couple time 6man w/o linkshell help with no bots no gear changing nor any help from 3p tools so please explain to me y it is sooooo hard to beat and y u cant do it.... Dont worry, ill wait

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Originally Posted by Lsvtec

i have beat tojil a couple time 6man w/o linkshell help with no bots no gear changing nor any help from 3p tools so please explain to me y it is sooooo hard to beat and y u cant do it.... Dont worry, ill wait

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Beat Tojil, Dakuwaqa, or Muyingwa 6 man without any 119 gear outside of maybe RF1/2+1. Don't worry, I'll wait.

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Originally Posted by Lsvtec

You completley mis-read/and or mis-interpreted what i said, constantly cheat a likely excuse as to why u cant beat tojil, whtever makes u sleep eaiser at night... A community that constantly QQs over not being able to beat current Delve that has been nerfed way way down forfeits their right to cry over it...


ps: i have beat tojil a couple time 6man w/o linkshell help with no bots no gear changing nor any help from 3p tools so please explain to me y it is sooooo hard to beat and y u cant do it.... Dont worry, ill wait

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http://31.media.tumblr.com/c9e750f96...9f8bo1_400.gif

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Originally Posted by Demonjustin

Beat Tojil, Dakuwaqa, or Muyingwa 6 man without any 119 gear outside of maybe RF1/2+1. Don't worry, I'll wait.

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have done it several times, took gimps in like yourself and have beat with 15-20mins left, care to make anymore excuses as to why u cant beat it? Oh wait i forgot Delve is srs bizness yo! Jokes aside i dont think they should nerf anything anymore make it just as challenging as it was when it first came out and stick u casual gimps to the ROE equipment because delve is hard QQ

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Originally Posted by Lsvtec

have done it several times, took gimps in like yourself and have beat with 15-20mins left, care to make anymore excuses as to why u cant beat it? Oh wait i forgot Delve is srs bizness yo! Jokes aside i dont think they should nerf anything anymore make it just as challenging as it was when it first came out and stick u casual gimps to the ROE equipment because delve is hard QQ

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Like myself? Ha... I have a name as one of the best RDMs on Phoenix and finished these NMs long ago back in the first couple months of release, I am far from a gimp or someone who can't beat it, don't even try to act as though you know me. All your post boils down to is insults toward others you know nothing about while you assume their intentions or abilities from their arguments against you.

You know what, I'll believe that you 6-manned the Bosses with non-119 gear when you show me a video, ya know why I have doubts though? You talk all big and bad, how you finished these NMs in the months following their release, how likely do you think anyone here is to believe that you would have honestly done these NMs 6 man without the gear obtained in those battles? I don't mean using things like 113 gear as in armor, I mainly meant the weapons you would have to use that wouldn't even give you enough accuracy to land your blows seeing as last I knew the NMs in these zones still have their EVA & DEF they normally would, they just have lower HP. At 117 weapon Accuracy and without some of the more high end gear like the MPNMs I highly doubt you would even hit them really let alone kill them.

This is all pointless though, because you will do nothing more than continue to block with pathetic insults such as 'y u so gimp?' I'm sure rather than trying to prove wrong the point that in order to get the Delve wins people are basically unable to get wins anymore without buying them due to the lack of shouts existing at all and the fact you need 119 gear to beat these bosses 6 man. If you can do it so easily though, why not record it then? Prove me wrong, you have done is 'several times' right? Should be no issue to simply record it or have a party member record it for you one run as proof I would think.

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Originally Posted by Demonjustin

Like myself? Ha... I have a name as one of the best RDMs on Phoenix and finished these NMs long ago back in the first couple months of release, I am far from a gimp or someone who can't beat it, don't even try to act as though you know me. All your post boils down to is insults toward others you know nothing about while you assume their intentions or abilities from their arguments against you.

You know what, I'll believe that you 6-manned the Bosses with non-119 gear when you show me a video, ya know why I have doubts though? You talk all big and bad, how you finished these NMs in the months following their release, how likely do you think anyone here is to believe that you would have honestly done these NMs 6 man without the gear obtained in those battles? I don't mean using things like 113 gear as in armor, I mainly meant the weapons you would have to use that wouldn't even give you enough accuracy to land your blows seeing as last I knew the NMs in these zones still have their EVA & DEF they normally would, they just have lower HP. At 117 weapon Accuracy and without some of the more high end gear like the MPNMs I highly doubt you would even hit them really let alone kill them.

This is all pointless though, because you will do nothing more than continue to block with pathetic insults such as 'y u so gimp?' I'm sure rather than trying to prove wrong the point that in order to get the Delve wins people are basically unable to get wins anymore without buying them due to the lack of shouts existing at all and the fact you need 119 gear to beat these bosses 6 man. If you can do it so easily though, why not record it then? Prove me wrong, you have done is 'several times' right? Should be no issue to simply record it or have a party member record it for you one run as proof I would think.

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you being a good rdm in delve means absolutely dick to me as well as your name LAWL, seeing as enfeebles can be landed by the sch, wat needs to be proved? ive got the gear/kis ur agruements are nothing but a joke point blank period im just sick of seeing all of u QQ over not having wins, when the people that bitch about not having said gear are lazy and dont get up and put the time into their toon that is needed to clear said content.... my post wasnt directly aimed at anyone just in general so stop taking what i type to heart, judging by wat u typed tho i can see the butthurt welling up inside u, im done here but i know ur getting started u keyboard commando u :)

Oh god, well even if I suck at FFXI I can console myself knowing that at least I can string a sentence together that doesn't make me sound like a gimp in real life.

At any rate - my point is, if the only thing that turning delve into 6-mannable content did was make it HARDER for new players to complete it - then it was a waste of development time and never should have been done in the first place. If the goal was to make it easier for people without wins to complete, it failed utterly because HP of the NMs was never the main problem.

In reality I don't care if people use spellcast - however, I do care when people who do use spellcast then cast aspersions on those of us who play vanilla, and act like they are better players, when in reality - they are cheating. And I do care if folks who are cheating whine about content not being hard enough.

I don't particularly care if folks think I just suck yada yada ya, really couldn't care less. I am a paying customer who would like to have access to content though.

Fellas, you're both pretty.

But I have to ask, isn't being the best Rdm somewhat akin to being the fastest snail, or the highest jumping elephant?

Meaning, even if you are, it's not all that useful, lol, though I actually just posted on someone's "improve Rdm" thread, so I couldn't help but make the joke.

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Originally Posted by Lsvtec

you being a good rdm in delve means absolutely dick to me as well as your name LAWL, seeing as enfeebles can be landed by the sch, wat needs to be proved? ive got the gear/kis ur agruements are nothing but a joke point blank period im just sick of seeing all of u QQ over not having wins

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Did you fail to understand my point was that I'm not a bad player nor gimp and have each of these KIs and yet still side with these people? Did that really just simply go over your head? The point of saying that I am a well known RDM on Phoenix is to point out that who you're talking to isn't just another one of the people you would classify as gimp who are unable to get their wins or the like, but rather someone who knows what they're talking about and yet still fundamentally disagrees with you. It's one thing to argue with someone who is ignorant to the content or complaining about content they are unable to complete, it's a whole other story to argue against someone who could be considered your equal in the subject.

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when the people that bitch about not having said gear are lazy and dont get up and put the time into their toon that is needed to clear said content.... my post wasnt directly aimed at anyone just in general so stop taking what i type to heart, judging by wat u typed tho i can see the butthurt welling up inside u, im done here but i know ur getting started u keyboard commando u :)

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It's not butthurt, it's the fact I hate that people are so stupid as to think that anyone who wants certain change must in fact be directly affected by the change. I support removing CoP as a requirement for Reforging gear for instance, the fact it doesn't help me at all doesn't make any difference, I can still support it, but people seem to think if you aren't personally restricted by something you aren't allowed to actually argue for the change of said restrictions. As for not being directly aimed at anyone... perhaps you fail to understand how english works, this, is directly aiming a comment at someone...

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have done it several times, took gimps in like yourself

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Designating me, rather than saying just people in general.

Seeing as you failed to acknowledge anything pertaining to the crux of my argument and instead chose to focus on the fact I attempted to point out why you should actually listen to what I say rather than dismissing it as being a 'gimp' simply complaining about being unable to beat content, I will assume you won't be proving me wrong about being able to beat the content with 6 people and no 119 gear outside of Reforged Gear.

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Originally Posted by Lsvtec

have done it several times, took gimps in like yourself and have beat with 15-20mins left, care to make anymore excuses as to why u cant beat it? Oh wait i forgot Delve is srs bizness yo! Jokes aside i dont think they should nerf anything anymore make it just as challenging as it was when it first came out and stick u casual gimps to the ROE equipment because delve is hard QQ

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In my nearly 10 years on FFXI, I've found that those who do the most barking are seldom the biggest dogs.

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Originally Posted by Selindrile

But I have to ask, isn't being the best Rdm somewhat akin to being the fastest snail, or the highest jumping elephant?

Meaning, even if you are, it's not all that useful, lol

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The point of saying it isn't to brag though, I'm not saying it because I think I'm cool, the point is to dispel the argument that I am in some way a player ignorant to that of which I speak, that I could be thought of as a player who has not done or completed the content and it is for that reason I agree that it should be changed. Basically, I point it out because I want to make it clear that I am a player who knows what they're talking about and shouldn't be dismissed because of some asinine view that anyone who wants something to change must by definition be affected by such change. I often support changes that have no affect on me and yet it seems like so many people have the asinine impression that only those who are affected care, and at the same time that they are simply whining about things because of the fact they can't or don't feel like completing it.

I point this out only because I feel like maybe if I do maybe I can get a bit more credibility to my argument rather than so many people dismissing it like they do with others who disagree with them.

Credibility is usually lost when claiming to be good, especially when you use the word "best", at something, rather than gained.

I certainly don't have a dog in the fight nor am I calling you good or bad, I was just pointing out the humor value of the statement, even, perhaps especially, if true.

The thing about MMO's is that they're team based for the most part. Saying "I'm" awesome because "I" beat delve is kinda wrong because if the other people with you suck you alone aint gonna win it, no matter how awesome you think you are.

I guess thats why elitist don't like helping noobs get wins, because if you surround yourself with nubs you start looking like one.

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Originally Posted by Selindrile

Credibility is usually lost when claiming to be good, especially when you use the word "best", at something, rather than gained.

I certainly don't have a dog in the fight nor am I calling you good or bad, I was just pointing out the humor value of the statement, even, perhaps especially, if true.

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I get your point, and you're right. I just hate when people belittle opinions in cases like these as though everyone who supports something must innately be on the same level. So far as the word best goes by itself, I use it sparingly because of that, and am always sure to say 'one of the best' rather than 'the best' because I am neither egotistical enough to think I am best, nor do I think it would make my argument stronger and could probably end up even weakening it. When it comes to credibility overall though, it's a damned if you do damned if you don't situation it seems, either say nothing and get treated a noob with a noob's perspective or sing your own praises and as a result be treated as though you're simply talking out your ass. :(

I don't understand how you would need to beat Delve w/o 119 gear? You realize how easy 119 gear is to get? The newest update just put EASY outside delve Nms that you can get amazing weapons from. Prior to that, you could have gotten ROE weapons which are 117 and then reforged AF that is 119. Stop sucking and figure this game out, it isn't hard. Gil falls from trees these days.

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Originally Posted by Draylo

I don't understand how you would need to beat Delve w/o 119 gear? You realize how easy 119 gear is to get? The newest update just put EASY outside delve Nms that you can get amazing weapons from. Prior to that, you could have gotten ROE weapons which are 117 and then reforged AF that is 119. Stop sucking and figure this game out, it isn't hard. Gil falls from trees these days.

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Congratulations on figuring out exactly why I said non-119 gear whilst excluding Reforged gear! I know perfectly fine how easy Sparks gear is to obtain, I also know how easy it is to obtain Reforged gear, my point of setting that restriction is most 119 gear is treated as though you must have a support job or 119 gear to do the content. I haven't really seen any Eminent DDs doing 119 content ranging from the new Skirmish to the new Delve NMs, AAs, DM, or the other 2 MPNMs. RF is excluded on the fact that it is easily obtained by some gil, quests, and RoE, nothing else level 119 is really obtainable without doing 119 content, and since getting into 119 content without having 119 gear can be difficult, it should be excluded from the example of just how easy Delve is.

You want to point out how easy Delve is with 6 people who need win? Go do win with non-119 characters, hell do it with characters who have never beaten Delve at all, at least then you can say Delve wins aren't required, but you won't do it, neither will he, and that's why your argument fails. You can't say it's easy to do and at the same time not do it yourself. Delve without 119 gear was possible when you had 18 people at your finger tips all who wanted to do the content and most of who needed win because you could get the exact setup you needed, you could lower a mob's EVA to realistic levels, in 6 man you can't do that. This topic originated with the idea of how 6 man Delve is to hard if I recall, because with 6 people the only people who stand a chance are those who have the gear already, you want to have ground to stand on in the debate then show some proof!

You can become a 119 DD through other content so you can 6 man it, I don't see your point? Are you implying its hard to get into Skirmish 3 or the new Delve Nms that people take an alliance to?

The new delve is disappointing. I played 15 minutes yesterday (and this week) and got 2 of the 4 pieces I wanted. Then threw money on airlixrs +2 and capped them... SE failed when they decided to keep the same plasm in the new version. People are necessarily capping gear quickly except maybe newbs, as they already have plasm to buy stuff on NPC, and the AH is full of airlixirs +2. As a consequence, most people stick to farming a couple of KI and then they are done. This also mean that the new-bosses will not be farmed (drops seem to suck anyway) because at least with tojil & v1, boss runs were a way to farm plasm.

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Originally Posted by Draylo

You can become a 119 DD through other content so you can 6 man it, I don't see your point? Are you implying its hard to get into Skirmish 3 or the new Delve Nms that people take an alliance to?

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Care to explain how you would expect a player unable to get wins to obtain 150k Plasm? As for Skirmish, yes, I think people with only 117 weapons have a hard time getting into it because 119 has become the norm the way it has and on top of that the KI has such a pathetic drop rate due to the content being flawed that if a player does do Skirmish they are very likely to walk away without a KI for quite some time.

Seeing as I've been doing 6 man Delve runs to get people KI wins, it's f*cking hard as hell to win when half the people haven't beaten it already and aren't geared up. There is nothing that's going to make up the difference between a RoE 117 H2H and Oat's, nor the Polearm / GKT / Swords / ect. Now hopefully some have a 119 RME which can be acquired without any serious work if they already had them at 99. Can't even expect R15 delve gear in general as people stopped doing plasm farming runs, they only want to do 5+1 clears for the plasm which kinda puts people in a catch 22 situation.

Basically people need to get in a linkshell that's willing to organize 18 man runs to get everyone KI's and farm a ton of plasm for everyone to use for gear upgrades. Of course you run into the problem of all the good BRDs, COR's, WHM's and SCH's running away and joining already pimped six man groups leaving the non-pimped to gear up those jobs, learn them and eventually run off also.

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Originally Posted by Demonjustin

Care to explain how you would expect a player unable to get wins to obtain 150k Plasm? As for Skirmish, yes, I think people with only 117 weapons have a hard time getting into it because 119 has become the norm the way it has and on top of that the KI has such a pathetic drop rate due to the content being flawed that if a player does do Skirmish they are very likely to walk away without a KI for quite some time.

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Skirmish III can be done with 117 melee's, just need a decent support line and people not being retarded. The info's out there for them to fight the NM's pretty easily and the gear level is really low. Of course plasm farming is still a PITA, SE really needs to add some secondary method to farm up just plasm in small groups, maybe a second set of fractures that don't have any NM's in them.

You can easily kill 5 nms in fracture with 117~119(skirm 3 gear) and get 10k plasm per run. It takes 15~20m to kill all 5 nm and then you can exit and reenter to farm plasm.

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Originally Posted by Draylo

You can easily kill 5 nms in fracture with 117~119(skirm 3 gear) and get 10k plasm per run. It takes 15~20m to kill all 5 nm and then you can exit and reenter to farm plasm.

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Yep and yet very few groups actively do this, which is the point I was making. Also 10K plasm per run isn't sh!t when you need to spend 300K just for the three airlixers +2 to upgrade a single piece of 113 gear. And lets not get into the prices for the newer stuff.

And even then, assuming everyone does that and now has a pair of 117 H2H, they still aren't going to be killing Tojil without a 4 song BRD who has long defected. In every successful low man group I notice two things in common, first being that they are experienced and well geared, second being the presence of a 3~4 song BRD. Those have become a rare commodity and generally have a princess like mentality since they can get instantly accepted into nearly any group on a given server.