Have people let go of the "Gjallahorn/Daurdabla only" BRD demand for Delve yet?

Now that AF is out for the new jobs, it looks as though RUN and GEO can fit into a delve fight without much trouble. One question I'd like to know is whether people have gotten past this whole "Lv. 99 Daurdabla/Gjallahorn BRD only" obsession. Given the stats of Aoidos' +2 gear, it seems a bit crazy to wait for so long for such a rare appearance when there are people who have the job, know how to play it, and have the necessary gear save for the Relic and Empyrean instruments.

So have things loosened up for non-elite Bards?

On Ragnarok I'll tell you this: Hell to the no (Not meaning that in a mean way to you)

same with DD's. RMED all the time or else people don't get to go in.

Basically, you're in the same boat as a PLD. No Ochain/Aegis? No thanks.

Meanwhile, Corsairs will walk right in by comparison. But for the oomph that people want out of their support, BRD is terribly gear-needy, and that's the gear they need.

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Originally Posted by Hayward

Now that AF is out for the new jobs, it looks as though RUN and GEO can fit into a delve fight without much trouble. One question I'd like to know is whether people have gotten past this whole "Lvv. 99 Daurdabla/Gjallahorn BRD only" obsession. Given the stats of Aoidos' +2 gear, it seems a bit crazy to wait for so long for such a rare appearance when there are people who have the job, know how to play it, and have the necessary gear save for the Relic and Empyrean instruments.

So have things loosned up for non-elite Bards?

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with the lates buff to weapons there is no need for darud/gjallarhorn bards or any kind of rotation if you have decked out melees. People seem to be dumb seriously ¬.¬

The last Tojil run I was in had a 2 song BRD. It's not nearly as necessary now, more of a luxury than anything.

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Basically, you're in the same boat as a PLD. No Twilight set? No thanks.

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Fixed that for you

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Originally Posted by Hayward

So have things loosned up for non-elite Bards?

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Bards that show up well prepared by obtaining the gear needed for events are elite? What do you call those who want to skip getting what's required and expect to play without? O.o

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Originally Posted by Daemon

Bards that show up well prepared by obtaining the gear needed for events are elite? What do you call those who want to skip getting what's required and expect to play without? O.o

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Twisting words won't get you very far here. Non-elite Bards who are good at their jobs should absolutely not be shut out of events simply because they don't have the time, patience, or desire for building 2 instruments, especially since it's not nearly as easy to build one of them in Abyssea as it was when it was the only game in town. But that's the mindset of elitists, again: Expect people to have top-of-the-line items and simultaneously expect them to do it without help.

I saw a guy yelling for a BRD with a 4-song Daudabla. Doesn't the 4 song Daurdabla require 1500 Heavy Metal Plates and 30 Riftcinder? Which are really tough to get?

I mean, if a group wants to be that choosy, that's their right. They're the ones taking on the burden of organizing the event. It's their loss if having such high standards means it takes longer to setup.

it always going to be people picky like that. even with the new buffs they still look for them 4 only brd songs, even if it take 4 hours of yelling.

last time i was turn down from a VW 1-4 windy clear. 17/18, they was looking for a DD.
i said pup D weapon + Alternator pet. please invite me. /bow
he said sorry we looking for a heavy DD.
10 mins later they found a Perle drk with low GS skills and only use Nirastamo. (my friend was in VW telling me)

so i had to solo my own clear><. my question is what is this "heavy DD"? i was turn down from a kirin run also.lol

Successful strategies are followed. People assume that because the first linkshells to do something did it that way, they need to continue doing it that way.

Typically, strategies are necessary longer, but the unprecedented change to level 100+ weapons has buffed people in a way we've never been buffed before. What I'm saying is, prior to the weapon buff, pugs shouting and shouting for a 4 song bard for Tojil has reason to it.

That being said, if I tried to go to a pug Tojil as bard and they declined me (and my bard is nicely geared for a non empy/horn), I wouldn't be offended. Leaders are simply trying to do everything they can to provide the win.

Not to mention, some groups barely win, or continue to lose, as it is. They're looking for all the help they can get.

I'm not trying to provide excuses, but only explanations. Personally I always try to frame my groups around the difficulty of the content I'm expecting to face.

We've been killing Tojil with NQ 2 song BRDs since way before the update. We have exceptional DDs though.

If you take normal FFXI DD players + normal FFXI BRDs you will be losing most of the time. That is why most shout groups want 3-4 song BRDs to mask the weak DD player base.

I wish SE could come up with a system that promotes players to help others without delve weapons or relics to be able to participate in the whole fricking game and gear themselves without having to submit themselves to buy help.

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Originally Posted by Taint2

We've been killing Tojil with NQ 2 song BRDs since way before the update. We have exceptional DDs though.

If you take normal FFXI DD players + normal FFXI BRDs you will be losing most of the time. That is why most shout groups want 3-4 song BRDs to mask the weak DD player base.

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This, and Comeatmebro has been tilling Tojil with 8 or 9, but as he's octoboxing, there's no doubt at all about how he's managing that.

Still, if one guy can, in any way, manage it with 8 or 9, 8 or 9 exceptional players could do it which means that it should be easier for 18.

Harps/horns aren't necessary, people just feel like they are.

Aegis/Ochain isn't necessary for pulling delve, though Aegis is nice for getting aga'd while pulling. Most of the time mobs are hitting me in the back as I'm running.

the proper response to a group requiring you to have 4 song gear is to go make your 4 song gear, then ignore that group and only run with your friends or people not in that group. especially since 4 songs are not required unless you are trying to cover players with sub-par skill, the same way it was with Sch before the embrava nerf or smn on the PD rotation strats. skilled players will beat content regardless. that being said, a 4 song brd is still VERY sweet, and it's a great way to help your friends up the rewards ladder, and is AMAZING in a skill-up party (yes, you can still form a skill-up party if you want to). Not to mention being a relic/empy bard is nice regardless since you can jettison about 10 inventory slots.

i was actually booted out of a group for only having 2 songs even though i have almost every instrument in the game and am able to provide a minimum of a +4 song for any song out there (minus ballad where i give +3). They told me i wasn't a good enough brd for them and i was a noob for not having it, even though i played bard back at 75 cap, had capped skills and all songs learned. They then got a bard with a 3 song harp and lost their fight cause a friend was in that run and told me that the persons songs had almost no duration to them and they couldn't land a single on an ANY mob.

Heres to the "veteran" bards out there.

It is assumed if you are a good BRD, you will have put time into the job your good at enough to get some of the most amazing gear, like Aegis & Ochain are for PLD, the Emp Harp is somewhat a game changer for a BRD, since without one, you get 2 songs, and with it you get 3~4, you are basically talking about a BRD potentially doubling their effectiveness in a single piece of gear. That, is not all to unreasonable in that respect. At the same time, people who do not personally know you do not know how good or bad you are, gear is the easiest way to test you rather than grabbing a T5 pop for Morimar, running out to Kurma, popping him, and commanding your BRDs to sleep him rq so you can tell they have the skillz. No, really its not hard to see why people do things like this, is it a dick thing to do and excluding a large amount of players? Yeah, it is, I know that, but does it also make sense? To an extent, honestly, yes.

Its possible to kill Tojil with 2, 2 song bards in melee parties but it just makes it harder and why risk it. The fight will drag on longer he will build resistance to stun and eventually wipe you. I have gone with 3 and 2 song bards for melee parties a lot of times.

Honestly if your serious about brd and want to be using it for boss runs you should do a harp at least to 3 songs. If not then gear other jobs.

The difference between 2 and 4 songs is huge. If you have 99 harp your bard is basically worth 2 bards. Abyssea isn't even that hard these days it just takes time, although very tedious to build a harp it is in no way hard.

About PLDs though, I killed all 3 delve bosses now, never had a PLD at any of them. Tanking is still broke, mobs don't do enough damage to kill melee easily. There is almost no reason to bring a PLD to any of the bossess due to the fact they won't tank, the melees will they will. PLDs do lower damage as well. Even if they could tank well hold hate off melees then go back to the first statement, replacing a high damage melee with a low damage paladin..

PLD is just for pulling, holding, and saccing. It's certainly not for tanking.

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Originally Posted by detlef

PLD is just for pulling, holding, and saccing. It's certainly not for tanking.

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Why would you need to pull, hold anything? Super buffed melees just melt the trash mobs when doing the 5 NMs, just kill all the trash mobs in your path. The only thing that needs to be saced is the boss. Which the SCH party Bard does because the only thing he has to do is march the 2 sch.

Taking a PLD just wastes a spot and has almost no use.

That's what the job is used for, I'm not forcing you to bring one if you don't need one.

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Originally Posted by Zumi

Why would you need to pull, hold anything? Super buffed melees just melt the trash mobs when doing the 5 NMs, just kill all the trash mobs in your path. The only thing that needs to be saced is the boss. Which the SCH party Bard does because the only thing he has to do is march the 2 sch.

Taking a PLD just wastes a spot and has almost no use.

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I don't think the statement was only for Boss runs, but PLD in general. In all honesty the only exception to that is that WKs do need a PLD to tank them, that's it though.

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Originally Posted by Demon6324236

I don't think the statement was only for Boss runs, but PLD in general. In all honesty the only exception to that is that WKs do need a PLD to tank them, that's it though.

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As a pld who pulls, holds, and sacs. My feels ; ;.

But yeah, it is the truth.

Oh wait, don't forget, I'm awesome for when we're gathering outside delve and someone magic agros an Umbril. That's 3 Things! Comin' back, baby!

(Atonement-cap does twice the normal damage to Umbrils, 1500, and when it takes nada from every other ws I've seen, that's pretty gewd)

I don't have Gjallarhorn nor Daurdalba, which is fine according to a LS I do occasional runs with. But if you don't have BRD AF3 +2 hands, GTFO!

Seriously?

Really you could eliminate both CORs with one DNC and get the same (or better result). A lucky on chaos is 25% att bonus which translates to a bit less than +25% damage when you factor in food and zerk which are additive affects. On the other hand, DNC contributes -13% def down (also which is not removed by Kurma), which when you factor angon with hands (-25%), Dia2 +light shot (-15%) and geo (-13%) you essentially gain 32.5% more damage. (53% def worked down to 40% def. In addition its another melee (albeit not a super strong one, but could stay around where the DRG would be for damage), as well as a nice frontline healer (see divine waltz2). I've tried explaining this to leaders before, but they ask me to come COR anyway <<. Mostly people don't like venturing into the unknown even if the theory/math is sound.

Edit: Also haste samba when brds not using 2hr gives a strong boost

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(Atonement-cap does twice the normal damage to Umbrils, 1500, and when it takes nada from every other ws I've seen, that's pretty gewd)

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Apologies, as I'm also a person who would enjoy PLD if it were useful, but Shijin Spiral with Oatixurs can rip over 3k on WS vs Umbrils (2k being a weak one), doesn't require enmity, debuffs the monster, and is used on the job that can also just Formless Strikes for 5 minutes when called for. PLD is a wasted slot both in Delve and out.

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Originally Posted by Hayward

Twisting words won't get you very far here. Non-elite Bards who are good at their jobs should absolutely not be shut out of events simply because they don't have the time, patience, or desire for building 2 instruments, especially since it's not nearly as easy to build one of them in Abyssea as it was when it was the only game in town. But that's the mindset of elitists, again: Expect people to have top-of-the-line items and simultaneously expect them to do it without help.

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Actually no I'm not twisting words and I'm not disagreeing with you about skilled bards. For something like Delve plasm farming I understand gear is not really important to have top of the line.

Maybe things like Tojil would be expected only because group leaders will take the blame for not inviting the proper jobs that bring failure which would waste everyone's time.

I just think making excuses not to be ready can only carry a person so far and by the time anyone reaches to the point of doing THE END GAME events should feel embarassed for showing up expecting to get by on mediocre gear. Because whose to say that person didn't FC to 99 and put in the proper time and care to be ready like the rest of the people doing the event.

Which I fail to see how its being elitist that 17 other people can be ready and the person showing up without the basics wonders why they can't participate

That's like saying "You are a judgmental elitist prick because I didn't put in endless hours doing quests and missions like you to be at your level and rather than invite me to play I'm pissed off that you expect me to go back and waste my time and do these boring quests before you invite me."

At least that's how I see it when people refer to us as elitist.

Then again its also who you know that can get you invites.

Nothing against you but I just think people are too quick to point others out and call someone an elitist without knowing the reasons behind why they expect you to be prepared.

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Originally Posted by Danita

Apologies, as I'm also a person who would enjoy PLD if it were useful, but Shijin Spiral with Oatixurs can rip over 3k on WS vs Umbrils (2k being a weak one), doesn't require enmity, debuffs the monster, and is used on the job that can also just Formless Strikes for 5 minutes when called for. PLD is a wasted slot both in Delve and out.

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I was being sarcastic, and okay^^. Just most ws's seem to do very meh damage on them.

To say it's a wasted spot is impractical though. Some strategies use them, some don't. Another DD could hold NMs, not as easily as I can, or they can wreck fodder, sac them, or a bard could drop party, sleep them, and then log.

But yeah, I wish PLD were an actual tank again (and nin! and run! Remember all the great times tanking on Run!)

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Originally Posted by Daemon

I just think making excuses not to be ready can only carry a person so far and by the time anyone reaches to the point of doing THE END GAME events should feel embarassed for showing up expecting to get by on mediocre gear. Because whose to say that person didn't FC to 99 and put in the proper time and care to be ready like the rest of the people doing the event.

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I don't know about embarrassed, but I agree with everything you said and in regard to high-end content: Although megabosses are in a weird spot. They are the highest end content, even though the ilvl changes made them hugely easier.

It is, after all, a game, and a person shouldn't be shamed for merely trying to have fun (Feeling embarrassed = self-imposed shame). Some players, when they encounter this wall feel challenged and try to make themselves better. Others rail at the elitism. In my opinion, if I want to play with the best players, I need to put my job together the best that I can.

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Originally Posted by OmnysValefor

I don't know about embarrassed, but I agree with everything you said and in regard to high-end content: Although megabosses are in a weird spot. They are the highest end content, even though the ilvl changes made them hugely easier.

It is, after all, a game, and a person shouldn't be shamed for merely trying to have fun (Feeling embarrassed = self-imposed shame). Some players, when they encounter this wall feel challenged and try to make themselves better. Others rail at the elitism. In my opinion, if I want to play with the best players, I need to put my job together the best that I can.

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Personally bard is not my main, and its not even geared properly but because we couldnt find no bards, i was asked by the leader in private to join gimped. No one else knew. he didnt care but others did after i joined.

It is embarrassing when you show up as a gimp bard or any job. I've done it. Songs wear off too fast. People asking where is your Emp harp? Don't have gear? No 3 songs? Why do we have this person to begin with. And all you can do is feel embarassed.

Which is if I was leading the group, I wouldn't care. As long as we have fun. But not everyone thinks that way because winning is what they play the event for.

I've seen people disband after 1 mistake because they predict there's no possible way to recover only to assume they'd be wasting time. And everyone has to be on point.

Tanking mata vs the amount of time vs other bosses before reaching Tojil. There's just not enough time to waste.

Biggest fear every party leader has is that. The fear of the entire group falling apart because you didn't set it up right.

The thing people don't realize? Leaders that don't know you and whether or not you are skilled doesn't matter. They have to make a quick judgement and the gear you own pretty much tells them that story of how responsible you are. When they ask do you have REM? They know these items take time to earn. And that only says "ok this guy knows what he is doing." If he can spend all that time to earn an REM then he definitely isn't one of those FC to 99 in half a day.

If he has AF3 then at least he took the time to earn those gears therefore at least I can rely on him.

It's just quicker to ask do you have DREM than give you a straight up interview.

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Originally Posted by Daemon

Personally bard is not my main, and its not even geared properly but because we couldnt find no bards, i was asked by the leader in private to join gimped. No one else knew. he didnt care but others did after i joined.

It is embarrassing when you show up as a gimp bard or any job. I've done it. Songs wear off too fast. People asking where is your Emp harp? Don't have gear? No 3 songs? Why do we have this person to begin with. And all you can do is feel embarassed.

Which is if I was leading the group, I wouldn't care. As long as we have fun. But not everyone thinks that way because winning is what they play the event for.

I've seen people disband after 1 mistake because they predict there's no possible way to recover only to assume they'd be wasting time. And everyone has to be on point.

Tanking mata vs the amount of time vs other bosses before reaching Tojil. There's just not enough time to waste.

Biggest fear every party leader has is that. The fear of the entire group falling apart because you didn't set it up right.

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This is so sad. It's a game. Party leaders need to be afraid they'll be judged, so they must follow a cookie cutter approach? I've played with folks who have delve gear, twilight, etc, and they still have no clue how to play their job.

I've played this game for years, and probably will for years to come, but I hope I quit long before I start judging others based on gear like this. Some of the best moments I had came from taking a group of friends who didn't have the perfect cookie cutter jobs for a fight, and working together and finishing it. We were told we 'couldn't' do some prommie fights with our group, and we had the best time proving otherwise. I joined many parties that seemed doomed initially, that turned around as we figured out what's wrong and worked together to fix it.

Sometimes the 'horrible' experiences turn into the fondest memories later on. It seems like this for some folks, ffxi is less about enjoying a game with others and more about having a spreadsheet of what you want folks in your party to have. I'm glad I've found people who enjoy the game and make it fun to work together to get gear or just accomplish goals we want and laugh trying vs rushing to get the best gear the game has to offer so you can then complain there is nothing to do. The game is great. Some of the elitist people, not so much.

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Originally Posted by kylani

This is so sad. It's a game. Party leaders need to be afraid they'll be judged, so they must follow a cookie cutter approach? I've played with folks who have delve gear, twilight, etc, and they still have no clue how to play their job.

I've played this game for years, and probably will for years to come, but I hope I quit long before I start judging others based on gear like this. Some of the best moments I had came from taking a group of friends who didn't have the perfect cookie cutter jobs for a fight, and working together and finishing it. We were told we 'couldn't' do some prommie fights with our group, and we had the best time proving otherwise. I joined many parties that seemed doomed initially, that turned around as we figured out what's wrong and worked together to fix it.

Sometimes the 'horrible' experiences turn into the fondest memories later on. It seems like this for some folks, ffxi is less about enjoying a game with others and more about having a spreadsheet of what you want folks in your party to have. I'm glad I've found people who enjoy the game and make it fun to work together to get gear or just accomplish goals we want and laugh trying vs rushing to get the best gear the game has to offer so you can then complain there is nothing to do. The game is great. Some of the elitist people, not so much.

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When people stop bailing out just because 2-3 people died then I'm sure leaders won't be afraid. As I said I could care less. If someone died I'd laugh and make jokes then stand next to them and die right beside the person too but sadly that's how FFXI has become.

One of the best parties I joined, the leader was a kind lady. It was my first time in PW. Not only did she not care about my equipment. She was making sure all new players knew the quests needed. My first run Plenitas Virga was the item I put up in my comment.

The item dropped. She asked who put the item up for comment and only I responded. People started warping but she stayed to the very end and said "I didn't pass because I'm waiting for you to get your item."

That was the best leader I ever saw.

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Originally Posted by Daemon

One of the best parties I joined, the leader was a kind lady. It was my first time in PW. Not only did she not care about my equipment. She was making sure all new players knew the quests needed. My first run Plenitas Virga was the item I put up in my comment.

The item dropped. She asked who put the item up for comment and only I responded. People started warping but she stayed to the very end and said "I didn't pass because I'm waiting for you to get your item."

That was the best leader I ever saw.

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That's what I always liked about FFXI. People weren't just interested into speeding to end game. You made friends, relationships, and memories that will last a lifetime. :)

Sorry, I like getting gear and advancing, but there's just so much more to FFXI than acquiring the best gear, so I get testy, probably because the overall mindset seems to have changed so much. People always wanted to level, but it seemed there were more folks who enjoyed the journey in years past. Fortunately, there are still a few folks who still do.