So is delve for new lvl 99 players?

So if you don't have the equipment to participate in Reives effectively, the delve is supposed to way for players to get the equipment?

From what I gather Delve is an event for players who are geared/skilled above average. I think you're gonna have to have top tier gear and be pretty damn good at your jobs to be successful at this event.

It looks like Legion, only 1-3% of the players will be able to access it, the rest would just ignore it. I hope I am wrong, and it's more like Meeble Burrow where all can come and participate.

---- I know the tone of post can be taken a little insultingly, but please understand, I'm not specifically calling anyone here gimp, especially to you LuvBunny cause i half 'quoted" you a few times, I don't think anyone specifically is gimp or bad players, Just that when it comes to this content and its direction, Follow the Directors advice and work on improving yourself before tackling the harder-hard Content :)

So keep that in mind when you read the following, cause i got a little ranty in the beginning.

Legion has no other entrance requirements outside of an I.Q At or above 50, Which... Lol, Yah, only 1-3% of the Population can enter. I kid i kid.

There's not a single event in FFXI That cannot be done with a pick up group, the only problem is, the term Pick up group is generally synonymous with "Bunch of morons and gimps". These events are only as hard as you make them. This new director is going in the right direction if you ask me, "Event's too hard? Try sucking less." - I'm not saying you need to spend 16 hours a day on FFXI, I'm saying if you walk up to an event in Full Aurore/Perle/Teal with 17 other people in the same gear, You're not going to win.

I think what the gear scale basically looks like right now is something like, from "Lowest" to "Better", in terms or difficulty and "Gear tiers"

Abyssea baseline (Teal/etc)
Emyrean +1/+2
Assorted VW Gear.
Reive Baseline
NeoSalvage
(Skirmish?)
NNI HQ's
(Delve).

When it comes down to it, Adoulin Baseline gear is absurdly good for how easy it is to get. a combo of that + EMpyrean+2 and you have a pretty good baseline set for WS and TP Phase, Its how you use it that makes events easier or not. The reason only 1-3% of a pOpulation might go to these events is because everyone else is either too stupid or too lazy to put in any effort into it, frankly they've been spoiled by easy mode and expect the game to continue suit to where they can jus throw a BST pet on it and call it a day.

Now, In the midst of this, I would like to mention, Even the most casual of casuals can get Reive armor, and Empyrean+2, It make take a few days or weeks, but you can do it. Problem is you'll have to make friends. So either shout for a pick up group a few times, and try not to make people hate your presence, and you can form a static, which might form a friendship, and there you have it. Linkshells are also good for this... some of them.

Once you do that, you can do just about anything, Unfortunately you have to learn the basics.

1) Macro's and Gear Swaps are not "Optional" if you want to be a good player.
1+) Make Macros. WS gear, TP Gear, DT set are pretty useful baseline for DD.
2) Some jobs are useless for some events, sorry.
3) Elitists exists, but theres plenty of people just trying to help and give advice, accept it.
4) You can't be angry at someone for not wanting to invite you cause you're below their standard.

There's a lot of key things in this game that are the same for every MMO, You can't pick up crap gear and expect to steam roll end-game content in FFXI anymore than you can in any MMO on the market. Plus, If you're failing events, its not because the event is too hard, its because you or the people you're with are incompetent, gimp, or not trying.

I also keep using the word Gimp, i should explain, its not "You should feel bad cause you suck and your gear sucks", its more "You can't do this event with the current gear". I know working for something is really hard and it'd be so much easier of jeeves would hand it to you on a silver platter... But working for gear in an MMO is not super hard, you just can't go "Well, I'm fresh out of abyssea, may as well go try NNI" then fail, and complain its to hard. Follow a gear ladder and work towards the best.

Personally, I know most of my jobs are pretty mid-tier on the gear ladder or lower, I try to stick to jobs i can gear well, But Its not always that easy, frankly most of my jobs are gimp (Undergeared). So i understand being ABLE to get the gear, but not just wanting too, though I don't make excuses for my undergeared jobs... well, maybe one, i hate them and don't play them... but outside of that, I Know why they're undergeared/gimp.. cause I'm too lazy to get better gear for em. But thats mostly for sh*t like WHM which i hate to play.

Every player has the ability to be good at the game and progress through all content, period. The only thing holding you back is either your company or your own descisions. Like it or not, FFXI has always had a gear ladder, it just some people circumvented it by abusing Linkshells or so forth, in this day and age, a lot of events can be formed in shouts, so the ladder is skewed and people just try to leech better gear through other people pulling them along. Even if you play 1 hour a day, try to devote some of that time farming a +1 seal or two, or doing a Reive battle or two... Just do your best and don't expect everything to be handed to you or to be so easy you can breeze through it in level 78 armor.

I myself lost a Skirmish just the other day, and I'm not going to let it stop me, We learned something new, and we'll adjust our jobs in the future...Don't give up, and don't look at it as too hard, look at it as "What can i improve to accomplish this goal?".

Also, I would like to mention there are 2 things i hate about some of the endgame content.

1) Accessing it is retarded (Skirmish)
2) Stupid Luck based sh*t (NNI).

Those are understandable complaints, but honestly, if you have the luck based crap, work on Neo-Salvage/Emp+2/Reive gear, Combinations of those, while not SUPERBEST, are adequate and really top tier as far as viable options go, and all can be achieved/completed with under 2 hours per day invested.

Goodluck :)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Karbuncle

---- I know the tone of post can be taken a little insultingly, but please understand, I'm not specifically calling anyone here gimp, especially to you LuvBunny cause i half 'quoted" you a few times, I don't think anyone specifically is gimp or bad players, Just that when it comes to this content and its direction, Follow the Directors advice and work on improving yourself before tackling the harder-hard Content :)

So keep that in mind when you read the following, cause i got a little ranty in the beginning.

Legion has no other entrance requirements outside of an I.Q At or above 50, Which... Lol, Yah, only 1-3% of the Population can enter. I kid i kid.

There's not a single event in FFXI That cannot be done with a pick up group, the only problem is, the term Pick up group is generally synonymous with "Bunch of morons and gimps". These events are only as hard as you make them. This new director is going in the right direction if you ask me, "Event's too hard? Try sucking less." - I'm not saying you need to spend 16 hours a day on FFXI, I'm saying if you walk up to an event in Full Aurore/Perle/Teal with 17 other people in the same gear, You're not going to win.

I think what the gear scale basically looks like right now is something like, from "Lowest" to "Better", in terms or difficulty and "Gear tiers"

Abyssea baseline (Teal/etc)
Emyrean +1/+2
Assorted VW Gear.
Reive Baseline
NeoSalvage
(Skirmish?)
NNI HQ's
(Delve).

When it comes down to it, Adoulin Baseline gear is absurdly good for how easy it is to get. a combo of that + EMpyrean+2 and you have a pretty good baseline set for WS and TP Phase, Its how you use it that makes events easier or not. The reason only 1-3% of a pOpulation might go to these events is because everyone else is either too stupid or too lazy to put in any effort into it, frankly they've been spoiled by easy mode and expect the game to continue suit to where they can jus throw a BST pet on it and call it a day.

Now, In the midst of this, I would like to mention, Even the most casual of casuals can get Reive armor, and Empyrean+2, It make take a few days or weeks, but you can do it. Problem is you'll have to make friends. So either shout for a pick up group a few times, and try not to make people hate your presence, and you can form a static, which might form a friendship, and there you have it. Linkshells are also good for this... some of them.

Once you do that, you can do just about anything, Unfortunately you have to learn the basics.

1) Macro's and Gear Swaps are not "Optional" if you want to be a good player.
1+) Make Macros. WS gear, TP Gear, DT set are pretty useful baseline for DD.
2) Some jobs are useless for some events, sorry.
3) Elitists exists, but theres plenty of people just trying to help and give advice, accept it.
4) You can't be angry at someone for not wanting to invite you cause you're below their standard.

There's a lot of key things in this game that are the same for every MMO, You can't pick up crap gear and expect to steam roll end-game content in FFXI anymore than you can in any MMO on the market. Plus, If you're failing events, its not because the event is too hard, its because you or the people you're with are incompetent, gimp, or not trying.

I also keep using the word Gimp, i should explain, its not "You should feel bad cause you suck and your gear sucks", its more "You can't do this event with the current gear". I know working for something is really hard and it'd be so much easier of jeeves would hand it to you on a silver platter... But working for gear in an MMO is not super hard, you just can't go "Well, I'm fresh out of abyssea, may as well go try NNI" then fail, and complain its to hard. Follow a gear ladder and work towards the best.

Personally, I know most of my jobs are pretty mid-tier on the gear ladder or lower, I try to stick to jobs i can gear well, But Its not always that easy, frankly most of my jobs are gimp (Undergeared). So i understand being ABLE to get the gear, but not just wanting too, though I don't make excuses for my undergeared jobs... well, maybe one, i hate them and don't play them... but outside of that, I Know why they're undergeared/gimp.. cause I'm too lazy to get better gear for em. But thats mostly for sh*t like WHM which i hate to play.

Every player has the ability to be good at the game and progress through all content, period. The only thing holding you back is either your company or your own descisions. Like it or not, FFXI has always had a gear ladder, it just some people circumvented it by abusing Linkshells or so forth, in this day and age, a lot of events can be formed in shouts, so the ladder is skewed and people just try to leech better gear through other people pulling them along. Even if you play 1 hour a day, try to devote some of that time farming a +1 seal or two, or doing a Reive battle or two... Just do your best and don't expect everything to be handed to you or to be so easy you can breeze through it in level 78 armor.

I myself lost a Skirmish just the other day, and I'm not going to let it stop me, We learned something new, and we'll adjust our jobs in the future...Don't give up, and don't look at it as too hard, look at it as "What can i improve to accomplish this goal?".

Also, I would like to mention there are 2 things i hate about some of the endgame content.

1) Accessing it is retarded (Skirmish)
2) Stupid Luck based sh*t (NNI).

Those are understandable complaints, but honestly, if you have the luck based crap, work on Neo-Salvage/Emp+2/Reive gear, Combinations of those, while not SUPERBEST, are adequate and really top tier as far as viable options go, and all can be achieved/completed with under 2 hours per day invested.

Goodluck :)

---

Not sure why you weren't Liked dozens of times already. You are 100% correct.

Reive gears are decent, some are mildly good than VW counterpart, others are better than empyrean +2. I am glad the gears are not game breaking but more of alternative options and yes, very accessible. Abyssea stuffs are very easy once you cleared all zone boss + Shinryu and have all the good atmas. But not easy for those who are new to Abyssea, no discernment atma, no good atmas or abyssite, and have to resort for random PUG who are all people in the same boat. It's funny to see a group wiped to Berstuk or Ironclad in Attowa :)

I am all about accessible contents regardless of your gears and skill levels. Yes, I know, it sucks to have to deal with people who have no clue on how to work as a group, or knowing what the job(s) can do, but hopefully most of them are willing to learn and get better. What I am hoping are more accessible contents (meeble is a great example, void watch - even when its crap RNG, abyssea pop items NM, all the neo events) that are not laggy (reives are very very laggy when more than 10 people participating).

Pre-SoA at least they give you tons of somewhat accessible content - with only very few in particular that is not as accessible, aka Neo Einherjar and Legion. Hopefully they continue the trend of accessible content, but it does not seem so with SoA - perhaps it will get more accessible in a year. It took a good year for Voidwatch to be accessible to all with the weakening items. Usually this is the direction they are taking, releasing contents that are "hard" then they tweak it to be more "accessible" within a year or so.

And I surely hope the colonization rate and access to the areas are not blocked in the future when very little of the players are participating in reives. I would hate to see SoA fate follow the same of WoTG... So basically if you like to get the first dip, rise to the "challenge" of cheap AOE insta death moves and NMs with tons of hp, bcnm that can only be accessed if you have 2 million gills or more, etc. Or you can ignore all of these for a year then try it once these events are adjusted and made more "accessible".

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Karbuncle

---- Follow the Directors advice and work on improving yourself before tackling the harder-hard Content :)

---

LOL, I am worried their definition of "harder-hard" content is cheap NMs that insta death AOE your group - like ADL, Legion, etc. Or NMs that depends on server wide efforts to "Weaken" it (or in the case of WoTG - areas that are not controlled by beast men). It's been over a year now, they should further tweak Legion, similar to how they make Provenance Watcher more accessible.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Kirito_Wind

So if you don't have the equipment to participate in Reives effectively, the delve is supposed to way for players to get the equipment?

---

No, delve is aimed at the most fully geared group. Rieves don't require demanding gear except to tank/lowman. New Salvage is more aimed at those who need something a little less difficult to bridge the gap.

No matter how much I try to think about gear progression via events logically, I still cannot get past the fact that we're collecting pants in order to collect slightly better pants later, or in the case of many sets of gear, pants that are somewhat better than these other pants on Tuesday, but not Thursday or Saturday.

Too many pairs of pants if you ask me.

I'd rather wear no pants

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Caketime

No matter how much I try to think about gear progression via events logically, I still cannot get past the fact that we're collecting pants in order to collect slightly better pants later, or in the case of many sets of gear, pants that are somewhat better than these other pants on Tuesday, but not Thursday or Saturday.

Too many pairs of pants if you ask me.

---

It's just like real life - you can wear your sweatpants in your college classes but you'll need to buy some khakis for that internship - and when you want to go out for that job interview in DC you'll need a suit - and then when you own the company you can show up in sweatpants and not a goddamn person can say a thing!

In any case, you have to wear pants you already have to go to the store in order to buy better pants.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Alhanelem

I'd rather wear no pants

---

Seconded. It's too hot for pants here anyway, unless you like ball soup.

About legion though, the FFXI community doesn't really like it very much. You rarely see shouts for it. I seen maybe like 10 or so shouts ever for it. I always wanted to try it but every time I saw a shout for it I was already committed to doing something else usually joined a VW or NNI shout.

I am not even sure why people don't want to do legion.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Zumi

About legion though, the FFXI community doesn't really like it very much. You rarely see shouts for it. I seen maybe like 10 or so shouts ever for it. I always wanted to try it but every time I saw a shout for it I was already committed to doing something else usually joined a VW or NNI shout.

I am not even sure why people don't want to do legion.

---

It has good stuff, but it's not a walk in the park- so most of the people you see who've done it (and have the gear) are linkshells that have static'd it. A good range of jobs can do well there if everyone is competent, but that 'competent" stipulation means shouts are rare.

Legion failed due to mediocre rewards and high level of effort required (people don't want to do expert level 18-man content for sidegrades)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Zumi

About legion though, the FFXI community doesn't really like it very much. You rarely see shouts for it. I seen maybe like 10 or so shouts ever for it. I always wanted to try it but every time I saw a shout for it I was already committed to doing something else usually joined a VW or NNI shout.

I am not even sure why people don't want to do legion.

---

Legion is harder than NNI, and if you want to win NNI, you'll need a good static or good luck (luck forming your shout group, or luck just getting a ton of free floors and single-enemy kill floors.... which almost never happens). So when it comes to people who do Legion, they form a linkshell and don't take kindly to newbs coming in and screwing things all up. And it's really easy to screw things up for EVERYONE in legion.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Alhanelem

It has good stuff, but it's not a walk in the park- so most of the people you see who've done it (and have the gear) are linkshells that have static'd it. A good range of jobs can do well there if everyone is competent, but that 'competent" stipulation means shouts are rare.

---

The main issue with legion is the huge gear check in combination with the party requirements:

-Do all of your whms have arise?
-Do you have two DHarp bards?
-Do you have three apamajas II + stunset schs?
-Do you have two parties of R/E/M DD?
-Do you have an ochain PLD?

Having all these at the same time can be quite the challenge, when previously the game pretty much required a party or less, and if it required 18 (i.e VW) the gear didn't have top notch on practically every party member with a high amount of party coordination.

This is all pre embrava nerf, I'm not sure how the event has changed afterwards.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Dantedmc

The main issue with legion is the huge gear check in combination with the party requirements:

-Do all of your whms have arise?
-Do you have two DHarp bards?
-Do you have three apamajas II + stunset schs?
-Do you have two parties of R/E/M DD?
-Do you have an ochain PLD?

Having all these at the same time can be quite the challenge, when previously the game pretty much required a party or less, and if it required 18 (i.e VW) the gear didn't have top notch on practically every party member with a high amount of party coordination.

This is all pre embrava nerf, I'm not sure how the event has changed afterwards.

---

I did a run not to long ago, and I was on GEO of all things... *nobody* had any of the stuff you listed and while we didn't win (due to stupidity, not lack of damage) we came close. Embrava isn't needed either. all of the monsters have noticably less HP at the same time that it was nerfed.

Quote:

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*nobody* had any of the stuff you listed and while we didn't win (due to stupidity, not lack of damage) we came close.

---

You're talking about post-nerf Legion. What you're doing is basically the same thing as telling people that capped CoP mission fights weren't challenging because you just did the uncapped versions and they weren't hard. Legion was a completely different story before two rounds of nerfs.

Legion failed before they nerfed it, but it was dead on arrival anyway (by design).

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Asymptotic

You're talking about post-nerf Legion. What you're doing is basically the same thing as telling people that capped CoP mission fights weren't challenging because you just did the uncapped versions and they weren't hard. Legion was a completely different story before two rounds of nerfs.

Legion failed before they nerfed it, but it was dead on arrival anyway (by design).

---

Yes, I'm talking about post nerf legion, that was the whole point. But i doubt you truly needed an army of 99 relic wielders to do it before that.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Luvbunny

LOL, I am worried their definition of "harder-hard" content is cheap NMs that insta death AOE your group - like ADL, Legion, etc. Or NMs that depends on server wide efforts to "Weaken" it (or in the case of WoTG - areas that are not controlled by beast men). It's been over a year now, they should further tweak Legion, similar to how they make Provenance Watcher more accessible.

---

Based on your ffxiah profile, I doubt you've done 1/2 the things you're complaining about (not successfully anyways) The only job I'd guess you have any decent gear on is THF and that's basically worthless other then TH. Also no relic/empyrean/mythic not even the fake empyreans. I don't even see any weapons that are top of the line non-r/e/m weapons. Now obviously FFXIAH misses stuff so maybe you do have decent gear hiding away somewhere...but I would bet you clearly fall into the Empyrean +2 player base.

Before you start complaining about end game that you have no right to be a part of please go find a competent group of players and get some better gear so you can attempt to do these events (that at the moment are far beyond your gear level, wont make any assumptions on your skill) then by all means voice your complaints based on EXPERIENCE not hearsay.

Edit: missed a t in complaints

Looks like this is a case of "meet the new boss, same as the old boss" in the case of the development team. Accessible gear (Empyrean +2 Armor, for example) just is not acceptable to some people who feel the need to look down on everyone else and the devs cater to these insecure gaming geeks with content that locks out anyone who doesn't have Relic/Empyrean/ Mythic weapons, VoidWatch gear, or New Nyzul gear. In some cases, the content is made practically unwinnable with most jobs (see New Nyzul, Legion, etc.).

One question the developers need to ask themselves: What point is there to making gear drops in content that doesn't allow most jobs to take advantage of it?

Edit: The above post makes my point for me before I could even post this. Too many people seem to want Empyrean +2 armor to become as meaningless as Relic Armor became at 75...and for what? To inflate their already out-of-control egos?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Hayward

One question the developers need to ask themselves: What point is there to making gear drops in content that doesn't allow most jobs to take advantage of it?

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Balance >.>

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Alhanelem

Yes, I'm talking about post nerf legion, that was the whole point. But i doubt you truly needed an army of 99 relic wielders to do it before that.

---

You don't -need- an army of RME to do ANYTHING. A bunch of gimps with common sense can do just about everything in this game. The problem is, common sense is significantly less common than RMEs are and it's easier to say "RME onry" than it is to explain to people a real strategy and expect it to be executed.

Everyone's in such an asinine rush these days. It's the same reason why folks refuse to let people re-stone in Voidwatch. "oh, its not hard at all to unlock all six stones." You know what takes even less time? Outposting to Valkurm.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Hayward

One question the developers need to ask themselves: What point is there to making gear drops in content that doesn't allow most jobs to take advantage of it?

Edit: The above post makes my point for me before I could even post this. Too many people seem to want Empyrean +2 armor to become as meaningless as Relic Armor became at 75...and for what? To inflate their already out-of-control egos?

---

SE doesn't decide what jobs get to do things or not. My PUP, with Verethragna should I ever decide to finish it, could likely compete with MNK in damage in Voidwatch if I really put the effort in -- but its the community that decides "lolPUP, no thanks." Just like it did before.

That's why I hate whenever someone's response to me not wanting to keep investing in a job is "Well, that job's great in dynamis/limbus/salvage."

You mean shit people barely do anymore...? That every pet job or high evasion is "good" at?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Alhanelem

Yes, I'm talking about post nerf legion, that was the whole point. But i doubt you truly needed an army of 99 relic wielders to do it before that.

---

The higher HP, damage, and evasion, yeah Ragnarok was a much needed weapon sadly.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Genoxd

Based on your ffxiah profile, I doubt you've done 1/2 the things you're complaining about (not successfully anyways) The only job I'd guess you have any decent gear on is THF and that's basically worthless other then TH. Also no relic/empyrean/mythic not even the fake empyreans. I don't even see any weapons that are top of the line non-r/e/m weapons. Before you start complaining about end game that you have no right to be a part of please go find a competent group of players and get some better gear so you can attempt to do these events (that at the moment are far beyond your gear level, wont make any assumptions on your skill) then by all means voice your complaints based on EXPERIENCE not hearsay.

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This is the same exact racism that should be eradicated from this game. Looking down and judging other players based on gears alone - and R/M/E weapons, LMAO. And trying to feel good by thinking you are above everyone else just because you managed to get them - meaning you just have more time or gil or willing to grind more than everyone else or just getting lucky at your Voidwatch drops. You should know by now that gears help a little bit, but skills and knowledge trumps gears. Telling people to "go get better gears" is your solution??

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Luvbunny

This is the same exact racism that should be eradicated from this game. Looking down and judging other players based on gears alone - and R/M/E weapons, LMAO. And trying to feel good by thinking you are above everyone else just because you managed to get them - meaning you just have more time or gil or willing to grind more than everyone else or just getting lucky at your Voidwatch drops. You should know by now that gears help a little bit, but skills and knowledge trumps gears. Telling people to "go get better gears" is your solution??

---

The thing is, the more skilled you are generally means the better gear you have as a result...

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Hayward

Looks like this is a case of "meet the new boss, same as the old boss" in the case of the development team. Accessible gear (Empyrean +2 Armor, for example) just is not acceptable to some people who feel the need to look down on everyone else and the devs cater to these insecure gaming geeks with content that locks out anyone who doesn't have Relic/Empyrean/ Mythic weapons, VoidWatch gear, or New Nyzul gear. In some cases, the content is made practically unwinnable with most jobs (see New Nyzul, Legion, etc.).

One question the developers need to ask themselves: What point is there to making gear drops in content that doesn't allow most jobs to take advantage of it?

Edit: The above post makes my point for me before I could even post this. Too many people seem to want Empyrean +2 armor to become as meaningless as Relic Armor became at 75...and for what? To inflate their already out-of-control egos?

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Bayld gear is not accessible enough for you? How much more accessible should it be made? I have no desire to look down on people with worse virtual shinies than me, but I want the game to give me a challenge and entice me to find a way through that challenge with a shinier shiny than my current shiny. Shiny.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Luvbunny

This is the same exact racism that should be eradicated from this game. Looking down and judging other players based on gears alone - and R/M/E weapons, LMAO. And trying to feel good by thinking you are above everyone else just because you managed to get them - meaning you just have more time or gil or willing to grind more than everyone else or just getting lucky at your Voidwatch drops. You should know by now that gears help a little bit, but skills and knowledge trumps gears. Telling people to "go get better gears" is your solution??

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That's not racism, racism is the fact that I'm a Tarutaru meaning most people don't want me to go to Legion on a DD job because it's easier for me to die in 1 hit. You should learn the meaning of the words you use before you throw labels around.

I do not feel as though I'm better then anyone, I know for a fact that I have more skill than some and less than others. Gear and skill both have limits, this becomes very evident in certain events. I have lost many NNI runs because idiots with awesome gear cannot do lamps and no not listen. At the same time I have lost some NNI runs because I watched poorly geared players fighting mobs and not basically 1 shotting everything in sight. Or those who are unwilling to go the extra mile and buy multiple Powder boots.

I can't do anything about the idiots who can't do lamps other then not go with them again, however I can prevent the painful experience of watching a gimp SAM fight an EP mob forever by excluding them based on gear. Why should I set myself and 4 others up for failure? If someone wants to do NNI in pearl gear then they should shout and make their own group not expect me to invite them and waste others time.

My solution is not to tell people to go get better gear. There is a path of progress being created in this game, one that exists in many if not most other MMORPGs. You aim for goals that are within your reach, once you have obtained that gear you are able to progress to another tier of gear.

To the post above, I have no interest in them making Empyrean +2 meaningless. Growth is growth, at some point characters will grow to a point where adding new content must be made inaccessible to some or it will be far too easy for others. I'm glad it's not WoW where when a new tier comes out the old tier is completely replaced.
My SAM uses gear from AH, Dynamis, CoP(ring), Salvage, NNI, WoTG(earring), Abyssea, WoE, VW, and now SoA/Reives.

tl;dr?
There's nothing in this game that makes me feel better or worse then anyone. It's a videogame and I play to enjoy myself(for me story, fighting awesome monsters with a group, and setting goals to accomplish.)
Gear and Skill are both very important and both can only go so far. Your gear sets the cap on your skill. You can be the best player in the world but without the gear certain things will be out of your reach. NNI is again a great example. A timed event where you can be an amazing player, but if you can't kill fast enough you will lose.

Remember that you may be heard by making a lot of noise, but it doesn't mean anyone is actually listening.

Anyways, I'm out...Stopped reading 1/2 way through page one so I probably derailed this enough~

Don't shit in the punch bowl and run away, it was just getting good. :(

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Originally Posted by Zagen

The thing is, the more skilled you are generally means the better gear you have as a result...

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Not really, it just means you have more time than most people to play the game and grind more for your gears. Or in the case of Voidwatch - you get very lucky!! Or in Relic, you have more money than the rest of us. Or you use your blm or whm or beastmaster job to seal farms for your other jobs. Skill is your willingness to read information about that said jobs of your choice, then test the job abilities, and figure out what those actually do, and what subjobs combination is needed for certain things, and do more testing with your macro, and more fighting to make sure they work, and more practice, and more testing on soloing mobs or NMs, dealing with adds, playing defensively and not blow your entire tp in do or die mentality, how to kite, and time your macro on spells etc. And yeah, eventually, more gearing, which means more grinding for your Magian Trials weapons, or your gears.

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Originally Posted by Luvbunny

Not really, it just means you have more time than most people to play the game and grind more for your gears. Or in the case of Voidwatch - you get very lucky!! Or in Relic, you have more money than the rest of us. Or you use your blm or whm or beastmaster job to seal farms for your other jobs. Skill is your willingness to read information about that said jobs of your choice, then test the job abilities, and figure out what those actually do, and what subjobs combination is needed for certain things, and do more testing with your macro, and more fighting to make sure they work, and more practice, and more testing on soloing mobs or NMs, dealing with adds, playing defensively and not blow your entire tp in do or die mentality, how to kite, and time your macro on spells etc. And yeah, eventually, more gearing, which means more grinding for your Magian Trials weapons, or your gears.

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What you've described is called research. Skill is the ability to apply knowledge gained from said research.

The point still stands a more skilled player will attain gear faster than someone with less skill. In many cases even faster than a player with less skill that happens to have more play time available to them.

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Originally Posted by Luvbunny

Not really, it just means you have more time than most people to play the game and grind more for your gears. Or in the case of Voidwatch - you get very lucky!! Or in Relic, you have more money than the rest of us. Or you use your blm or whm or beastmaster job to seal farms for your other jobs. Skill is your willingness to read information about that said jobs of your choice, then test the job abilities, and figure out what those actually do, and what subjobs combination is needed for certain things, and do more testing with your macro, and more fighting to make sure they work, and more practice, and more testing on soloing mobs or NMs, dealing with adds, playing defensively and not blow your entire tp in do or die mentality, how to kite, and time your macro on spells etc. And yeah, eventually, more gearing, which means more grinding for your Magian Trials weapons, or your gears.

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You're describing the desire to improve and the motivation to research how, along with actually trying. Half of the stuff you listed are very feasible accomplishments for people of all playstyles and times.

You are part of what's wrong with these forums. They let everyone voice their opinion, no matter how worthless it is.

Personally, I love the new direction and approach the new director is taking. Some of us don't want everything dumb downed b/c unmotivated people can't steamroll it.

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Originally Posted by Sfchakan

You're describing the desire to improve and the motivation to research how, along with actually trying. Half of the stuff you listed are very feasible accomplishments for people of all playstyles and times.

You are part of what's wrong with these forums. They let everyone voice their opinion, no matter how worthless it is.

Personally, I love the new direction and approach the new director is taking. Some of us don't want everything dumb downed b/c unmotivated people can't steamroll it.

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If you think that line of BS holds any water, you try and level a job like SMN or BST to 99, get the Empyrean Armor sets to +2, and see how far you get on those jobs (no hopping on the bandwagon job-of-the-month [hint...hint]). The direction we're headed encourages people like YOU to throw people who play those two jobs, among others, under the bus, all in the name of being the "MOST HARDCORE PLAYER ON EARTH!!!". I'm all for progression, but exclusionary content is exactly the wrong way to go about it.

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Originally Posted by Hayward

If you think that line of BS holds any water, you try and level a job like SMN or BST to 99, get the Empyrean Armor sets to +2, and see how far you get on those jobs (no hopping on the bandwagon job-of-the-month [hint...hint]). The direction we're headed encourages people like YOU to throw people who play those two jobs, among others, under the bus, all in the name of being the "MOST HARDCORE PLAYER ON EARTH!!!". I'm all for progression, but exclusionary content is exactly the wrong way to go about it.

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What content is there that excludes BST and SMN? I mean every event I've ever attended has never said X job isn't allowed with the exception of the level 60 ENMs and limit break fights at level 70 (except GEO and RUN they're hosed there). You're confusing the content with the player base.

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Originally Posted by Hayward

If you think that line of BS holds any water, you try and level a job like SMN or BST to 99, get the Empyrean Armor sets to +2, and see how far you get on those jobs (no hopping on the bandwagon job-of-the-month [hint...hint]). The direction we're headed encourages people like YOU to throw people who play those two jobs

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Okay, I'll take this challenge, mostly cause its impossible to lose. I have both SMN and BST, the problem isn't that the players are throwing the jobs away, its that these jobs both suck. Thats not player opinion, that mathematical fact. I have both of these jobs leveled, and while BST can come kinda-close to good DD numbers, SMN is just attrocious at everything its designed to do. Sh*tty mediocre buffs (sans 2), crappy Damage potential, Avatars have laughable DPS, and the job itself is resorted to its support job for any other uses outside of its mediocre pets.

But besides those two points, those jobs have their niche. SMN Has Alexander, and to a lesser extent, Shock Squall... which gets it in quite a few events, even Legion and ADL... and BST is the king of Solo, including in new Endgame, which a lot of new players suck at because they've never known BST before Abyssea, how to solo, Charm sets, Pet kiting, so on, so forth, so all these new T~VT mobs are wasted on a wave of NurseryNoobzuna's and their incompetence at playing this job. But despite that, They still rock in Dynamis and other Low-man/Oldschool content, which is actually good for what it is, money farming.

Are you the type of BST who doesn't know what Charm is? IDK, I'm not accusing you of such, simply that its a forgotten art to many. But the point of the matter is, both of those jobs have their niche, and while I'm not saying either are good or super useful, the players didn't design the game or the jobs, the Devs did... While these jobs are physically able to access said content, its true that those jobs are mediocre.

I wanted to address this seperately,

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, among others, under the bus, all in the name of being the "MOST HARDCORE PLAYER ON EARTH!!!".

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Being efficient and wanting to not waste your time letting unique snowflakes pretend their job isn't flawed from the ground up in design and execution isn't being Elitist, its being reasonable. If i'm doing NNI, plain and simple, I'm neither coming on SMN or inviting one, they just aren't useful for that event, and tossing this "EVERYONE WHO DOES THINGS THE GOOD WAY IS ELITIST" attitude around just makes you look foolish and unreasonably insane at best, and downright Starcade at worst. Drop the "If they have better gear, they're elitist pricks" attitude and maybe you could try objectively looking at this situation rather than seeing it through angry red eyes.

[quote]I'm all for progression, but exclusionary content is exactly the wrong way to go about it.[/QUOTE ]

While i agree, I challenge you to create an MMO with a 10 year old battle system and 22 jobs, and make every sinlge job both unique and 100% Equally useful.

To put it boldly, it. is. Impossible.

The new director has the right mindset when he told us that its unreasonable and impossible to balance all 22 jobs to be useful in every single event, so he encourages us to level a variety of jobs and use the one best for the situation. Its just the best option. I love SMN, i love THF, hell I even enjoy paying PUP, all three of these jobs are less than wanted, but that doesn't squander any fun i have on them. I don't judge my job or how i play it based on how useful other people think it is.

I know THF is pretty low on the DD totem pole, even with a 99 Mandau, But it doesn't stop me. I know Melee SMN is Lawlzy, but it doesn't stop me from trying to make people go "woah..." that the potential is higher than they thought (though still mediocre, just higher than one could expect), and I still play PUP to solo, even in Reives, setting my WHM auto up on the root, keeping my party alive, and DDing like a boss.

The game is as fun as you let it be, and creating perfect balance is impossible with this game, but they're doing a good job (Sans RDM, SMN, BST, and maybe 1-2 I'm missing) trying to balance all jobs.

Again, Hayward, not that you're a bad player, IDK you, I don't know your jobs, i don't know how you play or if you have RME's etc.. This is just a general musing, the failings are there, and people need to accept there is 0 chance, even in new MMO's, for Devs to create ~20 unique and perfectly 100% Equal jobs without it just being pure dull.

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Originally Posted by Hayward

If you think that line of BS holds any water, you try and level a job like SMN or BST to 99, get the Empyrean Armor sets to +2, and see how far you get on those jobs (no hopping on the bandwagon job-of-the-month [hint...hint]). The direction we're headed encourages people like YOU to throw people who play those two jobs, among others, under the bus, all in the name of being the "MOST HARDCORE PLAYER ON EARTH!!!". I'm all for progression, but exclusionary content is exactly the wrong way to go about it.

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Want to know how I know you guys haven't done Legion? You both have SMN and are crying you aren't able to do it. I usually try to bring 2 to every Legion run I host. Most of the strategies posted online involve bringing multiple SMNs to PD difficult mobs. Merited BPs do great dmg on the turtles and other mobs.

As I said, you aren't trying, so stop complaining.

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Originally Posted by Dantedmc

The main issue with legion is the huge gear check in combination with the party requirements:

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Challenge Accepted. Been in 2 (two) Successful Legion Shells, Pre-Nerf and Post-Nerf. So shall we?

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-Do all of your whms have arise?

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Not a single one.

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-Do you have two DHarp bards?

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Nope, Think one had Ghorn, had more COR's though, I think on a run or two we may have picked up a BRD with a Daurd.

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-Do you have three apamajas II + stunset schs?

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Had 2 SCH's who were there for various reason that had Stun Sets, though I don't see how being able to play your job made this bullet point, as any respectable SCH should have a Stun set, and APDKPAJAMAS isn't required, only helpful.

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-Do you have two parties of R/E/M DD?

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Kinda, I know we had some 90 EMPs, Think a single 99 Mythic SAM joined us most often, had an Apoc DRK... Not much else.

Not like an 85-90 Empyrean is super hard to obtain, But Yah, Thats the one thing most of them had, though i think there was a DD or two with the WoE weapon.

and a Relic can be solo'd to 95 by even the most casual of casuals, just takes time, investment, work, effort... Those things.

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-Do you have an ochain PLD?

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Another Yes, We had one holding the mobs. But you could shout and find an Ochain PLD in probably 5 minutes or less, they're insanely common cause Ochain, while harder than some Empy's, are still lulz easy... If you're not lazy (like i am), You could probably get one in 2-3 Weeks if you've got liberal playtime and motivation, 2-3 Months if you're sooper-dooper lazy.

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Having all these at the same time can be quite the challenge, when previously the game pretty much required a party or less, and if it required 18 (i.e VW) the gear didn't have top notch on practically every party member with a high amount of party coordination.

This is all pre embrava nerf, I'm not sure how the event has changed afterwards.

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I will however break to say, I agree that this event is a little absurd, while not as hard as people constantly describe it (hint: most of the time its not your gear, its the level of idiots you play with... Sorry), Its still a bit of crazy for the path the game was going in at the time.

HOWEVER< i think the biggest reason Legion was a failure was that most of the rewards were just rediculous sidegrades, and even a bigger handful of them were just pure sh*t, half the drops looked like they could easily have come from Tier 1 Abyssea NMs or Walk of Echoes... the other half was so situational it was mediocre. The rewards just flat sucked except for maybe 1-2 pieces for SMN.

Again, You don't need all of the above, and difficulty is directly proportional to the intelligence of the group, while there is a gear check (Hint: DESIGN ASPECT OF MMOS), its not as severe if your players know what they're doing. stun sets, etc etc etc. :)

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POINT 2!

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Originally Posted by Hayward

Looks like this is a case of "meet the new boss, same as the old boss" in the case of the development team. Accessible gear (Empyrean +2 Armor, for example) just is not acceptable to some people

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Its a little hypocritical to mention Ego's then go on a tangent about how we're all elitists or ruining the game and stuff.

But lets adress the point. Empyrean+2 is pretty much accessible to anyone short of completely lazy, that crap can pretty much be Solo'd now, hell I think a BST Can solo it. Its stupid easy and, did i mention, STUPID easy? If people are having trouble with abyssea content, they're doomed from the beginning.

And no, before anyone mentions it, Its not because of RL, Jobs, blahblah, I have been in and out of work over my FFXI Career, But I worked full time for a good chunk of it, and even now I work full time at a daycare, and still managed to access Skirmish inbetween having a life. Using playtime or "RL" as an excuse is basically saying "I'm lazy, and could get the gear, But instead of acknowledging my laziness, I'll blame the Devs for making it too hard, and Call anyone who tells me i can an elitist".

People use RL as a crutch/excuse for being lazy then blame anything they can because they aren't spoon-fed progression. Empyrean Armor is probably the easiest, short of Reive armor, things to obtain in this game that are unreasonable powerful for the lack of time you need to invest in them. You could get a piece of +2 Armor in a matter of 2hours if you know what you're doing, and for a super casual, you could probably get a piece a day if you can make time for it.

Even if you're casual and can only play 2 hours a day once a week, If you're motivated, you can get your armor in a month or so. And if you can only play 2hours a day once a week, you need to realize there is no MMO for you, and that if this is your schedule, accept that unfortunately there is no content designed specifically to cater to that demographic of people that offers uber top-tier spoon-fed gear, and there never really will be. I don't like busting out the harsh truths but if you can't put in the same time as anyone else, you shouldn't expect the same rewards.

I wouldn't work 20 hours a week then demand a salary for a full time employee simply because I feel entitled to it, Its just looney.

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One question the developers need to ask themselves: What point is there to making gear drops in content that doesn't allow most jobs to take advantage of it?

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I can answer this: People have multiple jobs.

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Edit: The above post makes my point for me before I could even post this. Too many people seem to want Empyrean +2 armor to become as meaningless as Relic Armor became at 75...and for what? To inflate their already out-of-control egos?

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Can't speak for him, But Empyrean+2 is unlikely to completely faze out of date for some jobs, but not for all... Its just going to happen as all gear does, but its still a splended, and in some mage jobs, irreplacable gear set.

Plus, While i know I have an ego on me, You'd be arrogant not to realize that you sir also have one that can be seen from Orbit.

All in fun though, I mean, You seem reasonable, you just need to chill in your posts (admittedly so do it) and try not to just assuming everyone who disagrees with you or has better gear/more time to play is a "no life" or "elitist", cause its not only insulting to those of us with a life who have this stuff, it makes you look like a bigot and ignorant person, which ain't cool.

Edit: And my entire relic was self-funded and farmed with friends. It took me months, and I worked hard for it, Bought very little currency that wasn't gil from Selling currency i got from my Dynamis runs... If i can do it anyone can... I hate grinding >_>

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Originally Posted by Karbuncle

I will however break to say, I agree that this event is a little absurd, while not as hard as people constantly describe it (hint: most of the time its not your gear, its the level of idiots you play with... Sorry), Its still a bit of crazy for the path the game was going in at the time.

HOWEVER< i think the biggest reason Legion was a failure was that most of the rewards were just rediculous sidegrades, and even a bigger handful of them were just pure sh*t, half the drops looked like they could easily have come from Tier 1 Abyssea NMs or Walk of Echoes... the other half was so situational it was mediocre. The rewards just flat sucked except for maybe 1-2 pieces for SMN.

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A few other items are/were worth the investment, like Duplus Grip, Hugin feet abj (top notch for multiple jobs to TP in), Fulad Zerah, and some others. I will definitely agree that there should have been more quality rewards, though. The majority of people in my shell want the same 2-3 items per hall and not much else. :)

I was under the impression Fulad Zereh was worse than Aramada-1 With Augments, and essentially a 30mil town piece D:?

Duplus Grip, however, i think was the one fine example of "The least they could do... no.. really" in terms of upgrades :P, But still a solid upgrade, full and agreed.