[Dev] Iridal Staff + "Previous Atma" set

OK, I know I'll most likely get flamed, but I just had this notion...

The special effect on the Iridal Staff and it's HQ counter part are effected by the weather (Please correct me if I'm wrong). I don't think it'd be too unreasonable to ask then, if the Storm spells could be lowered to have access to all of them while subbing SCH. I like SCH as a sub, and this would help quite a few jobs when one wasn't present. SMN, WHM, and BLM can all benefit from these, and it doesn't take away from SCH's Stormsurge ability. But this would also make Klimaform more useful at an Earlier bracket if the SCH could also use it.

My next thought:
Is there anyway to maybe expand the "Previous Atma" section to the last 3 combos. I've got 3 or 4 different jobs that I play with at a time, but it sucks when an atma falls off the history and I have to cycle back through anyway. It's also speed up the process to I could switch between like a BLM set-up to a Pet or Even DD in relative ease. It'd kind of work like the history section where it'd push down the last one into the next slot, and then the next; so that way that there would be 3 sets selectable and adding any more manually would then push the last one out of rotation.

Just a thought.

I would like to be able to store (and later edit) multiple Atma sets, would make entering Aby and getting ready much faster.

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Originally Posted by Zeargi

OK, I know I'll most likely get flamed, but I just had this notion...

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Give it a bit and i know you'll be proven right.

Personally, i say why the hell not? SE is giving the job away piecemeal as is and the playerbase has reduced what's left to yet another '2hr whore' job. Why not just go ahead and dead-check SCH already?

I am all for your atma-list suggestion tho.

RDM is in far worse shape than SCH is. The weather effects are minimal at best. It doesn't impact trials. The only thing it would do would lower Prep costs for SMN, Give the Magic Attack boost back to BLM IF they decided to sub SCH, but with RDM or WHM as a better choice, and increase slightly the the Cure Effect for WHM. And even if the don't lower all them. Getting the last basic element Thunderstorm would be fine by me.

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Originally Posted by Spiritreaver

Give it a bit and i know you'll be proven right.

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Sure will! Allow me to begin:

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Originally Posted by Zeargi

Iridal Staff

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Why even mention the NQ staff? Aside from the fact that it's crap (as are all NQ staves), there's absolutely no reason any semi decent BLM shouldn't have already owned a full set of the HQ staves. They're dirt cheap. They're still dirt cheap, even compared to prices from years ago back before magians existed and anyone that was worth anything had them.

Oh well, I guess the NQ version is still better than Maleficus, so some terribad BLM will get some use out of it (while being bad, that is).

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Originally Posted by Reiterpallasch

Sure will! Allow me to begin:

Why even mention the NQ staff? Aside from the fact that it's crap (as are all NQ staves), there's absolutely no reason any semi decent BLM shouldn't have already owned a full set of the HQ staves. They're dirt cheap. They're still dirt cheap, even compared to prices from years ago back before magians existed and anyone that was worth anything had them.

Oh well, I guess the NQ version is still better than Maleficus, so some terribad BLM will get some use out of it (while being bad, that is).

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Off topic, but OK thanks! Besides the Iridal staff is a whole-hell-of-a-lot easier to spell than the HQ one.

Also, since when has 2,470,000 gil been cheap @_@ That's not even including the craftering fee if you can't make the staff on your own.

honestly, given how SE already took one of SCH's two big unique things (helixes) and made them subable, for no real reason, that sch's left with just 3 storm spells unique to itself is a good thing. The last thing we need is whms able to cast aura storms on themselves. Sch's already been reduced to being a one trick pony, it'd be a really low blow to take the last of their storms from them.

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Originally Posted by Theytak

honestly, given how SE already took one of SCH's two big unique things (helixes) and made them subable, for no real reason, that sch's left with just 3 storm spells unique to itself is a good thing. The last thing we need is whms able to cast aura storms on themselves. Sch's already been reduced to being a one trick pony, it'd be a really low blow to take the last of their storms from them.

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I'd don't understand why SE even changed that to begin with. the Helix spells are crap anyway unless you have a native Elemental Skill. They don't last long enough to do anything really noticeable.

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Originally Posted by Zeargi

I'd don't understand why SE even changed that to begin with. the Helix spells are crap anyway unless you have a native Elemental Skill. They don't last long enough to do anything really noticeable.

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You don't need good initial DMG on landing the spell to proc in VW, that's why.

With the way Arts work on /SCH, anyone with /SCH and an appropriate staff can land a helix for the most part.

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Originally Posted by Spiritreaver

You don't need good initial DMG on landing the spell to proc in VW, that's why.

With the way Arts work on /SCH, anyone with /SCH and an appropriate staff can land a helix for the most part.

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But they changed the level requirements before this whole proc'ing business, If I remember correctly.

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Originally Posted by Zeargi

But they changed the level requirements before this whole proc'ing business, If I remember correctly.

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No, they changed it after. Schs were really pissed because it eliminated the need to have a sch in the alliance in voidwatch. SE did it for some bullshit "buff" to make helixes stronger that really didn't do much of anything, but resulted in completely fucking over sch until the introduction of embrava.

It's nice to see people defending SCH.

A lot of us are happy to be wanted again, but the whole thing leaves me feeling dirty and used, knowing that people want me for one thing and one thing only, when the job has so much more to offer. We wouldn't lose much by lowering the level for the last few storm spells, but in doing so, SE would be sending a message saying that SCH's only use is as a subjob, and embrava.

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Originally Posted by Reiterpallasch

Sure will! Allow me to begin:

Why even mention the NQ staff? Aside from the fact that it's crap (as are all NQ staves), there's absolutely no reason any semi decent BLM shouldn't have already owned a full set of the HQ staves. They're dirt cheap. They're still dirt cheap, even compared to prices from years ago back before magians existed and anyone that was worth anything had them.

Oh well, I guess the NQ version is still better than Maleficus, so some terribad BLM will get some use out of it (while being bad, that is).

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You forgot that you can do the Elite training 7 op on that staff and increase some of the stats a lot, and it a lot cheaper to augment that staff then the HQ ones. Can just get rid it and go for another one after maybe 10 them should get atleast int +6 or more. also the element effect you get from the augment element you can get stacks to the damage.

Also you can hold more then one them augmented staffs on you at a time.

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Originally Posted by Eric

It's nice to see people defending SCH.

A lot of us are happy to be wanted again, but the whole thing leaves me feeling dirty and used, knowing that people want me for one thing and one thing only, when the job has so much more to offer. We wouldn't lose much by lowering the level for the last few storm spells, but in doing so, SE would be sending a message saying that SCH's only use is as a subjob, and embrava.

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SCH is epic, have no idea why anyone would possibly think otherwise.

I think your mixing up class usability with procing ability. SCH doesn't get all the magic procs that BLM gets, that's why BLM is chosen over SCH most of the time for abyssea / voidwatch. SE has also made it abundantly clear that WHM is the primary healer, thus you won't be chosen over a WHM for healing duties. That being said, we often pair a SCH up with our BLM in the "mage party" for voidwatch. And if LS leaders don't see the value in a SCH then their just being idiots.

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Originally Posted by Zeargi

Storm spells could be lowered to have access to all of them while subbing SCH. I like SCH as a sub, and this would help quite a few jobs when one wasn't present. SMN, WHM, and BLM can all benefit from these,

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They already have 5/8 of them and stormspell are part of what makes SCH it's own job so i'd say no thanks unless you wanna give SCH Aja, Cure V and perfect Defense lol (extreme examples i know but SCH doesn't have many unique spells like other jobs so i'd like one or two)

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Originally Posted by Rezeak

They already have 5/8 of them and stormspell are part of what makes SCH it's own job so i'd say no thanks unless you wanna give SCH Aja, Cure V and perfect Defense lol (extreme examples i know but SCH doesn't have many unique spells like other jobs so i'd like one or two)

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As a SCH, you have Fast Cast, MAB, Magic Enmity Down, Self Skillchain, Conserve MP "100%", Divine Seal, Elemental Seal, Divine Veil, Magic Acc+, Extend effect. If you honestly think that those spells are what makes that job special, then you need to reevaluate how you play it. They're not even 'Proc' spells and only really good when teamed with Klimaform (Which has a long recast) for weather boosts or activating equipment pieces. As a SCH you get a boost to Regen's effect with Light Arts and a reduced MP cost, Dark arts you can Aspir-ga and completely refill MP, you have regain, Enmity down and Boost, and Stormsurge. You can Refresh the hell out of everyone in one spell and continue to cast other things with no slow down of cycles, and you still have better defense than a SMN.

+1 for the atma sets, canceled out by -1 for the storm suggestion.

I'm not one to care about numerical job balance or fairness. For me, playing WHM, RDM, BLM and SCH frequently and almost equally, what I care about is the jobs playing differently. A lot of people want to talk about SCH not being needed at its inception but for me it wasn't about need at all. I was excited that I got to fill the nuking, healing and enhancing roles I always liked in a different way. The job added more variety and interest to a game that had become stale to me.

With that in mind I don't want to be casting Aurorastorm on myself as WHM/SCH. Managing the Aurorastorm buff (as simple as it is, yes), is my SCH's thing, and I want a different thought process on WHM. I won't really go into whether my WHM needs that or not. I also like that on BLM my strongest nuke does not get the benefit of weather 100% like I do on SCH. In fact, as much as I enjoy SCH for all the different things I have to think about when I play it, I like the relative simplicity that BLM gives me when I'm in the mood for that.

Now, if a different utility or function were added to storms for SCH only, then I could get behind all storms being subable. Again, I'm not really talking about storms being more powerful for SCH or that it the job "needs" that, I would just want to be able to think about storms differently on SCH than I do on the jobs that can sub them. Stormsurge kind of does this already, but I'm looking for something different than just maintaining a buff on someone for whatever reason - nuking/healing bonus or stats, it's still the same process. For example, a JA that elevates the storm tier or adds a battle related stat bonus for a max of 1-2 people at a time. That would be something different to do with storms on SCH.

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Originally Posted by Zeargi

As a SCH, you have Fast Cast, MAB, Magic Enmity Down, Self Skillchain, Conserve MP "100%", Divine Seal, Elemental Seal, Divine Veil, Magic Acc+, Extend effect. If you honestly think that those spells are what makes that job special, then you need to reevaluate how you play it. They're not even 'Proc' spells and only really good when teamed with Klimaform (Which has a long recast) for weather boosts or activating equipment pieces. As a SCH you get a boost to Regen's effect with Light Arts and a reduced MP cost, Dark arts you can Aspir-ga and completely refill MP, you have regain, Enmity down and Boost, and Stormsurge. You can Refresh the hell out of everyone in one spell and continue to cast other things with no slow down of cycles, and you still have better defense than a SMN.

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You know, i had a point by point response written. But then i had to go take a dump and that helped me realize that was silly on my part, so i erased it.

If not having three spells(that incidentally, you wouldn't have anyways if SE had taken the time and REALLY evaluated what effect 75~99 would actually have on jobs like SCH) is chapping your hide, tough. And that's from the heart. Anything else i could say is irrelevant in the face of your 'I WANTZ EEET!!!' argument.

I enjoy playing SCH, but I fail to see what else it has to offer besides embrava AND stunning. Why has nobody yet mentioned one of SCH's most important roles (alacrity+stun) . . . ?

Anyway, nobody cares how many nukes you can do or how much damage the nukes do because magic damage is almost completely worthless in the game right now. BLMs are in the same boat; they exist for procs and only procs. You've got wildfire if you absolutely need magic damage.

SCH is an amazing stunner however, so if you're going to argue that SCH is a useful job, you might as well support your argument with the sole reason it should be used outside of embrava.

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Originally Posted by Zeargi

since when has 2,470,000 gil been cheap

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Since you can make 1 mil a day from dynamis currency. And that's only 2 hours of your day.

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Originally Posted by sc4500

You forgot that you can do the Elite training 7 op on that staff and increase some of the stats a lot, and it a lot cheaper to augment that staff then the HQ ones. Can just get rid it and go for another one after maybe 10 them should get atleast int +6 or more. also the element effect you get from the augment element you can get stacks to the damage.

Also you can hold more then one them augmented staffs on you at a time.

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Or you could have an unaugmented HQ and do more damage than the NQ + the best augment you could possibly get. There's absolutely no reason to own NQ if you are remotely serious about whatever job you have it for.

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Originally Posted by Helel

I enjoy playing SCH, but I fail to see what else it has to offer besides embrava AND stunning. Why has nobody yet mentioned one of SCH's most important roles (alacrity+stun) . . . ?

Anyway, nobody cares how many nukes you can do or how much damage the nukes do because magic damage is almost completely worthless in the game right now. BLMs are in the same boat; they exist for procs and only procs. You've got wildfire if you absolutely need magic damage.

SCH is an amazing stunner however, so if you're going to argue that SCH is a useful job, you might as well support your argument with the sole reason it should be used outside of embrava.

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Pretty much this. SCH > BLM for single target magic damage, but it's still inferior to the damage output melee jobs can do and aren't nearly as squishy when they pull hate. However, you missed one other aspect that SCH excels at: crowd control. Though, with the obliteration of the original Dynamis system and how trivial Einherjar is now, there's no reason to be good at it anymore.

LOL still do not get this notion that scholar is only good for embrava and nothing else.... I mean who are dumb enough to fill the whole alliance with one trick pony jobs such as whm and blm only. There are over 20 jobs in FFXI, 18 alliance spots, you surely can mix and match the jobs and have close 10-15 jobs at least with a few duplicates easily. You do not need 5 blms in alliance, 2 blms + sch is more than enough. Generally in abyssea people will go for jobs that are small party friendly, and mostly proc jobs if possible since that is the aim. But other endgame events DO EXIST, and those events you will be smart to vary your party set up. At the end of the day, players who understand how the job can be played and their role in the party trump these so called cookie cutter job set up. You do need job xyz to win, but you do must have players who are not idiot and understand how to play well together as a group and strategize.

Hi there!

We do not have any plans for updating the atma selection system beyond what is currently available. The reason is because by utilizing the last used set and the the recent history feature, these should provide enough options to be quickly utilized for multiple jobs and scenarios.

Would you reconsider if I mailed you a cookie? I made it myself :o

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Originally Posted by Mirage

Would you reconsider if I mailed you a cookie? I made it myself :o

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This reminded me of a funny photo/comic strip from a {Long Time} ago. Took me a while to find it on the interwebz lol.

http://i425.photobucket.com/albums/p.../0-comic14.jpg

I dunno but i find that somehow with the recent history feature atmas i use all the time keep gettin pushed off and ones i havent used in 3 months will somehow be on the list. I cant remember how the history thing works but i think somethin should be done if what i use all the time (apocalpyse) is removed in favor for calamity or whatever i might have used to check something one time.

The newest atma you manually set up will always come on the top list, pushing down the list of all the other atmas on your recently used atma list. Basically if your favorite atmas are being pushed down at the very end - you will have to manually select all 3 to bring them all back to the top of the list of recently used.

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Originally Posted by Zeargi

If you honestly think that those spells are what makes that job special, then you need to reevaluate how you play it. They're not even 'Proc' spells and only really good when teamed with Klimaform (Which has a long recast) for weather boosts or activating equipment pieces.

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Originally Posted by Rezeak

They already have 5/8 of them and stormspell are part of what makes SCH it's own job

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Highlighted just cause it seems you didn't read it either i ment part as in 1 part of many
thing that makes SCH it's own job.

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Originally Posted by Zeargi

They're not even 'Proc' spells and only really good when teamed with Klimaform (Which has a long recast) for weather boosts or activating equipment pieces

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So there good all the time then :P

As for proc arguement may as well give SCH nukeaja, Alexander, Refresh II cause there not proc spell /sarcasm.

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Originally Posted by Okipuit

Hi there!

We do not have any plans for updating the atma selection system beyond what is currently available. The reason is because by utilizing the last used set and the the recent history feature, these should provide enough options to be quickly utilized for multiple jobs and scenarios.

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Sorry. You are wrong.
I only play about 4 jobs and I use about 12 different Atmas, obviously in multiple sets.
The currently system is garbage for this reason.
Honestly, making it not-suck is NOT that difficult. If you could save a few "recent sets", it'd be already much improved.

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Originally Posted by Kari

Sorry. You are wrong.
I only play about 4 jobs and I use about 12 different Atmas, obviously in multiple sets.
The currently system is garbage for this reason.
Honestly, making it not-suck is NOT that difficult. If you could save a few "recent sets", it'd be already much improved.

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I loled at the idea of straight up telling Okipuit your wrong, not that your wrong, because you arnt, but it was still funny.

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Originally Posted by Okipuit

Hi there!

We do not have any plans for updating the atma selection system beyond what is currently available. The reason is because by utilizing the last used set and the the recent history feature, these should provide enough options to be quickly utilized for multiple jobs and scenarios.

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It was a step up from the way it was originally, but with 145 different atmas out there, it still wasn't enough.

Honestly, all that's really needed is what should be a simple change, similar to what was done with Nyzul temps -- allow people to customize their own atma list, so that they can choose from a list of the maybe 15-20% useful atmas while cutting out the 80-85% junk atmas. Additionally, make it so that the "last atma set used" will still be saved if you select atma from this customized list, instead of only being saved when you pick an atma from the full list.

The way things are now, I'm reluctant to use any other situational atma even when I know it would be an ideal situation to use it in, because doing so will start bumping my more commonly-used atma off the "recent history" list, meaning I will eventually have to go through the full list for EACH one of those atmas to find it again and put it back on the recent history list. This is an enormous pain, particularly for those who have all the atma or close to it.

tl;dr :
Scrap the "recent history" thing, replace it with customizable list ala Nyzul temps.
Make "last atma set used" also take into account atma selected from customized list, rather than only the full atma list.

I think the current atma system works fine. This is one of those cases where I think that the dev's time could be spent doing more important things, especially since they already tried to appease the players by adding 2 new ways to infuse atma.

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Originally Posted by Okipuit

these should provide enough options to be quickly utilized for multiple jobs and scenarios.

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I'm telling you now, it dose not.

To be fair to SE for once, they did ask what people would prefer, they chose a list of recently used ATMA.

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Originally Posted by Okipuit

Hi there!

We do not have any plans for updating the atma selection system beyond what is currently available. The reason is because by utilizing the last used set and the the recent history feature, these should provide enough options to be quickly utilized for multiple jobs and scenarios.

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When this was added we were told this was a temporary solution and we were initially promised the ability to set up multiple sets of atma.
Please go back to your Devs and remind them of this, as your current answer is not acceptable.

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Originally Posted by Rezeak

So there good all the time then :P

As for proc arguement may as well give SCH nukeaja, Alexander, Refresh II cause there not proc spell /sarcasm.

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I'll sarcasm you!!! D:< No but in seriousness, I'd love for SCH's Manifestation ability to work like that, It's over all limited use with the number of statagems is fine, but that's not my call. As for the other 2, not really a fair trade. Again, SCH is still better than both SMN and RDM. A SMN must 2hr and must be 75 to even use Alexander, which then cancels the effect. While Embrava and Kaustra are gained at lvl. 5 and can continued to be used until the effect wears off. SMNs only really 'unique' skill is Hastega which can also be done by BLU (Though it has an super long recast) and is still a better haste than that. Even Subbed, SCH accession Stoneskin is still better than a SMN's Earthen Ward at 99. And as mention before: SCH still ranks higher in DEF than SMN. SMN can't command their Spirits to do things beyond attack so even though the can Proc an Abys. NM.. It's a shot in the dark to even get it done. RDM lacks in sword techs and tier 5 spells, the lost the over all functionality with the SCH's power to AoE both Phalanx and Refresh. Almost all of the spells that could help RDM are self target, which can be again bypassed by SCH accession, but a RDM in most cases won't sub SCH. (I mean, I wouldn't.) RDM doesn't even get Reraise :/. While I haven't messed with the changes to the enfeebling thing... I can't imagine that it's actually much of a change. I'd personally would rather have them push for a change in the Helix spells to be boosted back up in levels if I could exchange it for the storm spells to be subbed.