Allow purchase of Revitalizer for token points
When it comes to Legion, developers recently often suggest that no one wants to do it or fails trying because we aren’t doing it „properly”. When it comes to new Nyzul, the „proper” way of doing it seems to be SCH SCH DRK DRG BLU WAR ( although damage dealers able to use both W:legs and Powder Boots are vastly preferred, WAR is somewhat tolerated due to Ukko’s Fury/Fell Cleave+Mighty Strikes). Where you are given a degree of freedom when it comes to damage dealer choices, this event requires 2x SCH if you are aiming at F80/F100, which shuns other interchangeable mage jobs from being able to participate. You need Embrava for full event duration, but do you really need to exclude WHM RDM BLM BRD SMN COR from participation? If SCH could use Revitalizer and provide second Embrava, another person could change to a mage they might prefer playing more (in my case RDM, for example) and run around curing/hasting/enfeebling just as a SCH would.
You might say that a second SCH could be replaced with a COR and Wild Card for second Embrava, but, firstly no other mage job gets to participate in this setup either and secondly, you have 50/50 chance of failure in getting V or VI on top of all the luck already needed to succeed in event.
When someone doesn’t show up for event, whilst looking around for replacement in reality I’m restrained to accepting only SCH DRK DRG or BLU (or at least someone extremely good and able to use Powder Boots as minimum) not to compromise group’s (already miniscule) chances for succeeding even more.
I realize developers might be worried that everyone in party having Revitalizer might make this event easier, but truth to be told, noone else NEEDS Revitalizer in Nyzul for anything, as monsters are decent challenge only, and F80/F100 bosses can be killed within 60-90s. If you are concerned about making it too easy mode, make Revitalizer cost 1000 or 2000 tokens, although that heavy price would probably ruin only SCH’s token supply (in my group no one really needs to 2-hour, unless we reach F100 and rush for the win). This also might be a way to promote people doing old Nyzul for Revitalizer tokens, similar to how you will be doing old Limbus to access new Limbus.
Lamps
Developers have asked for feedback about „lamp order” floors – as already suggested by others, the most reasonable approach in my opinion would be to rename ‘Runic Lamp’ into ‘Runic Lamp 01’ etc. Having to figure out runic lamp order when you get 4 or 5 of them is really a run killer, and you might as well warp out, especially since the cooldown between lamp activations is 30 seconds or so. Having order known leaves you still to find all the lamps, and still coordinate to activate them in correct order, but without the middle finger tossed in the mix.
Again, developers might be worried about this change making new Nyzul too easy mode (less insta fails every time you stumble on order floor), but I think with this one you’ve gone too far with copy-pasting old Nyzul rules.
Unable to receive Key Item for killing F20/40/60/80/100 boss when disconnected
You are unable to receive Astrarium key item if your party kills the floor boss and you are not in the party. In developer’s ideal world where they live next door to the server and have top-notch machines for playing this might work perfectly well, but we players sometimes have unstable machines, unstable internet connection or sometimes the power grid decides to flicker and resets your router. Hell, you can have jealous girlfriend or kitty pull the plug just as you warp in to floor 80/100. Does new Nyzul really need to be that hostile towards „DC” people? And before you say such occurrences are rare, it happened to me personally where my power grid went down for a second and my game went off. I managed to log back in just in time for boss killshot, but it was close call. Last week on the other hand another member’s PC fried just as we engaged the boss and he didn’t log back in until much later. Can you imagine his frustration/anger for both frying his graphic card, missing out lotting armor AND not being awarded Astrarium for boss clear? Can something be done about this?
I’d like to remind developers that we pay the price to enter new Nyzul both in Asaault Tag and tokens spent on temporary potions so we should receive ‘clear’ reward as well when the mission is accomplished. When your party manages to clear boss floor designed as final target, you should be awarded astrarium (and tokens, but that’s a lesser issue here) for doing so. It is somewhat similar to voidwatch, where PS2/XBOX players were unable to participate and receive clear from some of the fights (hello Kalasutrax) so adjustment was made that you obtain title even if disconnected and not present during kill.
If, however, for various system reasons it is not possible for unlucky player to receive key item after relogging, could a GM be contacted regarding this and the key item granted? Reaching desired floor in new Nyzul is rare, reaching it AND disconnecting is even rarer, so it wouldn't be too much burden for GMs, but could save unimaginable frustration for the victim.
Destination floor stopper is maliciously disadvantageous to players
When you set a floor destination, say F60 or F100, you are unable to go past that floor, but as you approach it, the Jump ??? works against you. If upon Jump ??? you get jump up number greater than destination floor, instead of being put automatically on destination floor, the game „rerolls’ until it gets a floor lower than destination or equal to boss floor destination.
As it currently stands, if you are on F96, you have 25% chance of landing on F100, if F97->33%, F98->50%. If game instead worked by putting you automatically on boss floor if your Jump??? went past it, the odds would be on your side.
Full probability list (unless I’ve messed up the math):
F100 chance (Assuming Jump ??? is 2 to 9)
Your floor Current system Alternative system
98 100% 100%
97 50.0% 87.5%
96 33.3% 75.0%
95 25.0% 62.5%
94 20.0% 50.0%
93 16.7% 37.5%
92 14.3% 25.0%
91 12.5% 12.5%
Note how the game starts to severely work against your odds the closer you are to F100. It’s sad the developers decided to work against player’s odds with this one to prevent you from reaching destination floor. As if likehood wasn’t against us already from the start :(
Add extra time after destination floor’s boss death to allow for lotting/passing of battle spoils
As suggested already by others, we need to be given extra time (similar to Einherjar) for lotting/passing equipment after killing destination floor boss. Again, in developer’s ideal world they might’ve decided it’s not unnecessary, but again:All of this in a heavily time-restricted event... I realize getting transported into a separate lobby area would be preferred, but I suspect it would be difficult to implement, whereas adding extra 5min time remaining to distribute spoils would not be difficult. Also, I realize transporting party with treasure still in lot pool to the outside area would be impossible as third party people could be invited for lotting, so not suggesting that. Still, after having won the battle everyone should be allowed to celebrate it properly.
- players disconnect from game for various reasons,
- players have disabilities/are physically slow and unable to lot/pass within milliseconds after boss kill
- players’ inventory gets clogged with junk like crystals and geodes during the climb and we need time to toss junk in order to lot,
- players die during fight and need to be raised before lotting.
Embrava wears off after being disconnected from the game
Again, probably in developer’s ideal world things like getting disconnected from the game don’t happen, but for us players it’s not uncommon. If you get disconnected from game, your Embrava is removed upon logging back. I understand it might’ve been set this way to prevent abuse of kill something->logout->wait for repop->kill->logout->wait... but I can not think of any realistic instance where such tactic could be abused. I can, however, think on many instances where getting disconnected in new Nyzul leaves you very vulnerable and unable to fully participate until either event ends or if lucky, Embrava is reapplied ( Tabula Rasa is active ~23% time during Nyzul run, outside of that window you are as good as useless in case of front line job). Can it be changed into something like Protect or Reraise so it stays on even after disconnection (if you really need to keep it balanced, have the spell timer to tick even after logged off)? Being a spell usable only every 2 hours and all...
Thank you for reading.
Nyzul Isle Uncharted Region adjustment suggestions
Printable View
-
06-07-2012, 06:03 AMMilvaNyzul Isle Uncharted Region adjustment suggestions
-
06-12-2012, 11:43 PMKhajit
You still need a person to stand at the lamp for going up. All it would do is result in adding a thf to the group for slightly better fl100 drops
-
06-13-2012, 12:10 AMhikowrong , you count as if random was 1-9 when it's 2-9,Quote:
Originally Posted by Milva
98 is 100% chance to land 100,
97 50 87.5
96 33 75
95 25 62.5
........
without this mistake, I agree -
06-13-2012, 09:40 AMLlana_Virren
How about these for fixes:
Time during lobby no longer counts against your overall time.
Time is paused upon completion of floor requirements. -
06-14-2012, 06:24 AMMilvaMy point stands, you've just replaced a buffer (SCH Embrava) with another buffer (THF Treasure Hunter). Some groups might choose extra TH as their SCH replacement, some might bring a BRD, RDM, WHM, SMN, COR, BLM (each brings their unique boons) etc or an extra DD. I'd just like to have that flexibility. As it is now, you have SCHx2 heavyDDx4 or gtfo, right?Quote:
Originally Posted by Khajit
-
06-14-2012, 06:28 AMDemon6324236Yep~ exactly what it is.Quote:
Originally Posted by Milva
-
06-14-2012, 10:56 AMKhajitbrd is useless thanks to this thing called the haste cap with minuets probably not doing much,rdm useless as a sch could have done that with more aoe and backup embrava in case of the rash of DC happening lately, whm useless as a sch could have done that,smn useless as it's a smn, cor maybe if the roll timers just happen to add up exactly, blm is still useless.Quote:
Originally Posted by Milva
so nope your point basically does almost nothing due to nyzul requiring a person to camp the rune being half useless outside of whatever their main buff is.
At a best case scenario you've added a thf who's job it is to be bored until the boss floor. -
06-14-2012, 11:40 AMDemon6324236RDM can DD and since they are near the other DDs, can heal as well, SMN can AoE Haste/Move speed, BRD can give move speed and attack/defense/eva/blah blah blah buffs, BLM is useless other than sleepga which means you need no sneak/invis you can aggro the area and have the BLM sleep them all easy.Quote:
Originally Posted by Khajit
-
06-14-2012, 12:33 PMRakshaSomeone else is going to rip you for this, so I'll keep going.Quote:
Originally Posted by Demon6324236
SCH more or less negates the need for heals altogether, and even in those situations where you need heals, SCH still does it better.Quote:
and since they are near the other DDs, can heal as well,
SCH single handedly caps magic haste.Quote:
SMN can AoE Haste/Move speed
No one cares about those things. Fodder mobs dont last long enough for attack songs to matter.Quote:
BRD can give move speed and attack/defense/eva/blah blah blah buffs,
SCH can sleepga also, but it's rarely necessary.Quote:
BLM is useless other than sleepga which means you need no sneak/invis you can aggro the area and have the BLM sleep them all easy.
Now don't get me wrong, I think embrava is a bit overpowered to be sure. And I also think that NNI should be reworked to not require double embravas. But until that happens the sad truth is that SCH is clearly superior to all of the other mage options. -
06-14-2012, 12:59 PMDemon6324236
Ok, so can you explain why my RDM cant do the job better again?
If my RDM went in as the 2nd support job I can DD with it very easily, not all to hard to use Gain DEX for a nice +80ish DEX with my unfinished WS set, CDC does nice damage and in all doing more than that SCH standing on the side lines casting cures here and there.
RDM can dual wield using /DNC or /NIN giving it a weapon for cure potency still and so long as your not one of the stupid RDMs runnin around in a hybrid set all the time and you actually use multiple sets (I have 8 sets atm aiming at 12 once I finish my Excalibur and start some specific sets) you should have a cure set, mine has about 40% cure potency if you count a dual wielded Galenus (hopefully soon to be Sanus) which can cure just fine, refresh keeps up my MP effortlessly as I melee as well.
I see 0 problems a RDM instead of a SCH would have, rather the advantage of a front line healer who is also helping to DD, unless your SCH has this set then the RDM is going to be more help I'm sure, even if the SCH has that set the RDM can still best them with this set too...
Simple minded people who think RDM cant DD can say what they will, a healer & DD in 1 is good for what your talking about, a speed reliant event where kill speed can make a difference, and if my RDM kills even 1 mob, saves you a few seconds the SCH would have sat there waiting to cure most likely.
So far as I understood you still needed the spell Haste itself, in which case rather than a SCH cast it on each person 1 by 1 a SMN could do all in 1 go at any time its needed. Also Fenrir can boost all stats if I remember right, and there is still the move speed boost for those without flee feet, so far as I know gear & effect move speed buffs stack, just not gear stack with gear or buff stack with buff. Which is why BRD can use AF3+1/2 feet with their music for very high movement speed+...Quote:
Originally Posted by Raksha
I half expect a Faith spell for its new 2hour, seeing as Tab gives you Brave. Brave=Regen/TP/Haste & Faith=Refresh/MAB/Fast Cast. Then mages would be able to get a use too, idk, just an idea. Either way I will say that you are correct to an extent, SCH is superior but only for its 2hour, otherwise its still over powered, but it wouldn't beat out the others so badly, at this point almost everything requires Embrava, or Perfect Defense. SCH wins NNI with Embrava, so here we are.Quote:
Originally Posted by Raksha
(Sorry I added onto this post 3 times, honestly didn't want to try going off of memory after typing my response to type another, might twist words by accident.) -
06-14-2012, 01:45 PMVortexIt is pretty clear that neo-nyzul is something you should stay away from. i could explain to you in so many ways why RDM is inferior to SCH in nyzul but why should i bother, Raksha already explained it to you but you seem to be in denial, that your precious RDM fails behide. Read the post again, FULLY and you might understand, a DD RDM in an event that requires the fastest kill possible? are you insane??Quote:
Originally Posted by Demon6324236
RDM is a waste of slot, no matter what you do with it. SCH will be a far more better support job for nyzul and pretty much any DD will be more effective. you're bascaily asking for a run with 5 people.
RDM can DD, but nyzul is not the place to use it, cause it's ineffective. -
06-14-2012, 02:17 PMDemon6324236The idea was to add another support job, the list consisting of mages, RDM of which is yes, the best choice, because RDM can hurt mobs, the others can not nearly as much, and also because RDM can still hold up the support being asked of it, where others can just as well. I read the post, SCH can heal better because? Rapture? Ok, so it gets 50% extra potency on a cure, honestly you can cure with Cure IV for over half someones HP by this point so thats not so big, minor time save/MP save, if healing isn't needed, no support probably is, so yes, a DD is the way to go. If you want support, RDM is where you want it, because RDM can do support when needed, and when not needed it can focus on aiding in the objectives in a way a WHM BRD SCH or SMN cant really, which is DDing.Quote:
Originally Posted by Vortex
You want to know something though? I understand more than anyone arguing with me how RDM would fail in NNI, as I said, its highly time based. RDM has to stop every 10~15 minutes to rebuff itself because without buffs, yes, RDM will fail! The only way RDM could work as a DD in NNI is if the lobby didn't count down time, so RDM could buff to full before hand, then RDM would also need a Job ability that refreshes its buff duration timers. I am explaining the view on the options that were given, between those 6 jobs RDM would probably be the most helpful, SCH provides healing and Embrava for NNI, nothing more. Embrava would be done 2 times by 1 SCH in the situation you speak of, thus that is removed, leaving healing, which as I already explained can be done by RDM just as well excluding Rapture. -
06-15-2012, 06:30 AMRaksha
Lets suppose one SCH could cover embrava for the entire run. You still need someone to sit at the rune, so even if you took a rdm it would basically be doing nothing. Assuming you didnt need someone to stay at the rune for whatever reason, you should take a 5th DD (a real one)
-
06-15-2012, 07:57 AMLlana_VirrenAnd this is the strongest justification for why time should pause upon completing the floor objective.Quote:
Originally Posted by Raksha
-
06-15-2012, 08:57 AMdetlefRight so if somebody dies just wait to unweak, heal, rebuff, get a drink, and don't lose any time. Also equip your powder boots for the next floor and wait out its charge time before porting so you can use it immediately on the next floor. For that matter, sneak and invis everybody, then port up. I think you have to come up with something better than that.Quote:
Originally Posted by Llana_Virren
-
06-15-2012, 09:03 AMRakshaThe problem with that is that you're wasting embrava time if you're waiting around for people to unweak. You could have everyone lock on the rune though.Quote:
Originally Posted by detlef
-
06-15-2012, 09:54 AMDemon6324236I am unable to understand why if you have this setup you do not leave this SCH, at the rune, rather than another job... If you honestly need minor healing, then why can RDM not do it? SCH being at the rune is just as good as any other job except its only use is actually Embrava, Regen V and healing, you get the 1st 2 at the rune anyways, healing can be done by a RDM or DNC in the field and provide more damage when you do not need a healer. You make it sound like the SCH must always be with the DDs, its not the case, if your going with only 1 SCH then you still need 1 person at the start, for now we need 2. With 2 you have 1 move with DDs, healing them if needbe, and you have the other at rune, it would be stupid to send the SCH around still if you have 5 people, yes, another HDD is better than RDM or DNC in the damage sense, but if you truly need healing, no, you want to go with a job that can do both, of which are only really RDM & DNC...Quote:
Originally Posted by Raksha
-
06-15-2012, 10:28 AMdetlefThis is a good point. I still think that it might be a good tradeoff to use the free time on every floor to prep for the next floor. For example, it might make COR and BRD useful. Okay now I like the idea.Quote:
Originally Posted by Raksha
-
06-15-2012, 12:17 PMRakshaBecause SCH is a better healer and nuker than RDM.Quote:
Originally Posted by Demon6324236
Given this particular set of circumstances (only need 1 SCH, and for some reason need a 2nd mage instead of a 5th DD), RDM wouldn't be a horrible choice. But SCH would be better.
Let me throw another reason in here: If you only needed 1 SCH for embrava, and if you needed a 2nd mage for some reason instead of a 5th DD, you should bring a 2nd SCH anyway JUST IN CASE people end up dying or d/c'ing and lose Embrava. This is a better reason than at first it may appear because so far our group has on average 1 d/c per qiqirn floor. -
06-15-2012, 03:53 PMLlana_VirrenWhen the player dies, it slows down the actual damage output, meaning you lose time "finishing the floor" but not once the objective is completed. Also, no one said that conditions like "0 Deaths" couldn't be added. The suggestion I made was simply that Floor Completion = Time Pause, which to me makes sense considering each floor has a unique objective.Quote:
Originally Posted by detlef
In reference to s/i, just have the port-up drop s/i effects. I'm not saying you should be able to do -everything- before you port up, but there's no room to vary in the DDx4/SCHx2 configuration because there is no way to mitigate time loss between floors, requiring 1 person to always remain at the lamp and therefore not contribute to the actual objectives. -
06-16-2012, 03:01 AMMilvaI have nothing against SCH, but more against two party slots being locked SCH SCH. DD slots you are more free to fill in with anything that can swing a sharp stick in the general direction of the enemy. One SCH is enough to cover Accession/Perpetuance Embrava and Regen V. For all other nuking/curing/buffing/debuffing duties there are jobs out there as proficient or even more. Hell, if not for Embrava, you could bring even a lolPUP to toss out V.Smites whilts WHM auto does exastly what the second SCH would. Anyways, nuking is hardly needed in NNI, reason being, fodder mobs die too fast (so do the bosses), unless it's a PDT NM pudding, in which case your BLM/RDM (who could normally run around and haste/cure4 people just as a SCH would) can Fanatic-Manawall-Manafont-Thundaja/Thunder5/Thundaga3 it to death more swiftly (for example).Quote:
Originally Posted by Raksha
2xSCH is nice, but for some people SCH+RDM, SCH+SMN, SCH+whatever might be more fun. But in all cases, at the moment, the grave disability is lack of second Embrava. -
06-16-2012, 06:03 AMRaksha
If wishes were fishes we'd all cast nets.
If you took SCH completely out of the equation then you'd probably have a whm and a brd mule to sit at the rune. -
06-16-2012, 07:02 AMNeisan_Quetz
- Reduce maximum floor size
- Remove/adjust Mine Qiqirn like mobs
- Remove Order, Same time isn't that bad, code is easy. -
06-16-2012, 07:09 AMMilvaThis event was built around Embrava. If you ever try it, you'll realise the constant regen topping up DDs is one of the reasons you can get past F50 with everyone alive. One WHM and BRD mule can't cover all DDs running all over the place at flee speed.Quote:
Originally Posted by Raksha
-
06-16-2012, 07:12 AMRaksha
Heh, if I ever try it.
We usually have a mythic DRG and 2 apoc DRKs, all of which are pretty capable of keeping themselves alive. -
06-16-2012, 07:19 AMNeisan_Quetz
Yea with embrava and regen V you can aggro several mobs on War and not even really care while trying to take down a spec enemy.
-
06-19-2012, 07:35 AMTrisscar
Just a question here, why isn't the BLU doing some assist healing? Yeah, I know. I wouldn't rely on a BLU main healer for heavy duty healing situations nor would I offer up to be main healer as BLU either. But you get two BLU together with some healing spells set and they can still DD.
-
06-19-2012, 01:30 PMRaksha
Which BLU?
-
06-20-2012, 04:00 PMFupafighter
Lol demon and rdm DD still. Man get used to the fact that rdm is a solo job now. It is not party friendly, nor is it a proper DD. Seriously a brd could outdamage red mage physically.
-
06-20-2012, 04:20 PMFupafighter
A proper blu is actually amazing for neo nyzle. Long stuns, great weaponskill in CDC, sleep stuff, ect. The problem is alot of blu think that having an almace makes them good. They truly are valued to me more than a 2 hander if done properly.