Nerfing Ukko/Vsmite so lazy players can be more useful?

Are they just trying to get ppl to use the GIMP new WAR/MONK Non-Crit WS?
Or maybe make it so lazy players who don't spend time making empy can have an edge over ppl who spent time to farm them.

This really pisses me off.

Theres more than just what the OP had to say, but I'm getting disgusted so I wont bother. I posted here just so theres another person's comment about how stupid this direction is, especially with the new SAM merited ws being so incredibly insane in power.

Remeber people, if you are really upset dont just read and close the forum, post, that's the only way SE knows this is a bad idea. Even if it goes ignored, you at least tried. Don't complain latter if you didnt complain here first.

They just keep slapping us in the face... They give us one thing out of twenty useless ones. And Then when people get fond of them and start to use them as party of strategy, SE comes in and destroys it... @ Seijuro if they wanted to make the "lazy players" Less weak you would think they would provide a Native WS that doesn't suck past lv 60 any job other then SAM of course. I guess they won't learn until people just flat out quit and stop buying FF products...

@Camate Do you know how disheartening it is for You to level a job that is basically useless for endgame purposes. So you level a job that seems to be over used for it to then be Gimped down for what at times seem to only be for the amusement of GMs and server overseers?

I am setting aside money, now, to purchase a series of offline Games. No sense in Dealing with The Dev Team and Tanaka anymore. 2004-2011.

Restriant > Blood Rage > Uko. Even The Monks are feeling the pain.


Pay heed to this ugly trend. Your job class will be next. I hate to even think about what will happen and how they will go about it, but from what I am seeing We as a whole are being dragged back to pre-level cap 75. VW with thier poor drop rate? I did not like the old content then, and I don't like it now.


My only concern is once I do leave what kind of mess will I have to put it with over the phone from Customer service. I wish Everyone the Best!

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Originally Posted by Seijuro

Are they just trying to get ppl to use the GIMP new WAR/MONK Non-Crit WS?
Or maybe make it so lazy players who don't spend time making empy can have an edge over ppl who spent time to farm them.

This really pisses me off.

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So everyone who doesn't bandwagon onto WAR and MNK is lazy now?

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Originally Posted by Alhanelem

So everyone who doesn't bandwagon onto WAR and MNK is lazy now?

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No people who don't make an empy are lazy.

Except VS and Ukko re stronger than most other empyreans like Scythe Polearm Dagger Bow both in AND outside abyssea. So instead of buffing the majority, it's easier to nerf the minority.

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Originally Posted by Ophannus

Except VS and Ukko re stronger than most other empyreans like Scythe Polearm Dagger Bow both in AND outside abyssea. So instead of buffing the majority, it's easier to nerf the minority.

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The nerfs in the upcoming update don't just affect people with empy/WoE weapons. There are changes that nerf all warriors and the people partied with them.

Also, the easiest solution isn't usually the best. I don't mind seeing something tweaked down slightly if it seems a little OP, but these aren't small changes. Blood Rage is getting nerfed pretty significantly. I realize that it's only in effect at best 10% of the time, but it affects your whole party and eliminating the crit damage bonus is a pretty significant weakening of the ability.

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Originally Posted by Seijuro

Are they just trying to get ppl to use the GIMP new WAR/MONK Non-Crit WS?
Or maybe make it so lazy players who don't spend time making empy can have an edge over ppl who spent time to farm them.

This really pisses me off.

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Shijin was already better than Smite on a Perfect Monk. This just widens the gap and has made me seriously consider putting time into a Spharai.

Only really affects jobs that use crit ws and crit ws aren't even always the best outside of abyssea anyway.

initial testings fro Markove chain show Victory smite got nerfed but not by a lot. It seems there is 15% instead of 20% critical hit rate @100TP, so overall almost nothing, like -5% damage at most.

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Originally Posted by Monchat

initial testings fro Markove chain show Victory smite got nerfed but not by a lot. It seems there is 15% instead of 20% critical hit rate @100TP, so overall almost nothing, like -5% damage at most.

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5% damage is a lot, lol. It takes a 5500 WS down to 5300.

I'm not lazy I just saw it coming, rather stick with DRK and Apoc because I already know not to expect ANYTHING of value or use lol.

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5% damage is a lot, lol. It takes a 5500 WS down to 5300.

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From a dev standpoint, that's not much. Since they think the WS is broken you can guarantee there will be more nerfs to take that number down quite a but more. If not the whole excecise is pointless. Same applikes to war if the nerfs they did don't have the desired effect.

Don't know why this surprises anyone. First it was dragoon then ranger. They actually nerfed ranger twice.

Lazy. If you don't have an Empy, you are Lazy? According to what we all know, Empies are SOOO Easy to get, but how many Empy holders have a Relic/Mythic? IF not, why? Is it too hard to get? Too time consuming? Or are you Lazy?

I am Lazy. When I log in to play my game, I put on some comfy pants, kick my feet up, and become the most laziest useless human being. There's no agenda, no drama, no one telling me what to do, and absolutely no pressure from the world.

The point: Don't make Lazy a bad word. I like that word. Rather, use a word like... hmm... Content? Yeah, Content works, because like me, and a lot of people I know, we aren't really into the whole concept of having the best of the best. I am content with what I have that makes me functional at my jobs. Get what gets the job done and move on with your life.

If you have everything you want, I applaud you, because you worked hard for it and that's respectable. But don't call people's character into question into a negative light because they don't share the same goals as you.

Besides, half the people with the "Epic Win here Win there, Win Win everywhere" gear still don't know how to play the game. they just happened to be at the right place at the right time with the right people.

Hi, I am Avidon. Lazy and Proud. (It's what gaming is all about.) :)

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Originally Posted by Avidon

Lazy. If you don't have an Empy, you are Lazy? According to what we all know, Empies are SOOO Easy to get, but how many Empy holders have a Relic/Mythic? IF not, why? Is it too hard to get? Too time consuming? Or are you Lazy?

I am Lazy. When I log in to play my game, I put on some comfy pants, kick my feet up, and become the most laziest useless human being. There's no agenda, no drama, no one telling me what to do, and absolutely no pressure from the world.

The point: Don't make Lazy a bad word. I like that word. Rather, use a word like... hmm... Content? Yeah, Content works, because like me, and a lot of people I know, we aren't really into the whole concept of having the best of the best. I am content with what I have that makes me functional at my jobs. Get what gets the job done and move on with your life.

If you have everything you want, I applaud you, because you worked hard for it and that's respectable. But don't call people's character into question into a negative light because they don't share the same goals as you.

Besides, half the people with the "Epic Win here Win there, Win Win everywhere" gear still don't know how to play the game. they just happened to be at the right place at the right time with the right people.

Hi, I am Avidon. Lazy and Proud. (It's what gaming is all about.) :)

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Well said!

Each player has different goals and how they want to play this game. I've said many times before, having 'XYZ' gear/weapon doesn't automatically make a player a great or even good player. Not having 'XYZ' gear/weapon also doesn't automatically make a player a bad player. Sure gear is one aspect of this game, but understanding and actually knowing how to play your job(s) is probably a lot more important then getting 'XYZ' gear/weapon but is completely clueless on the job(s).

I'll trade a player that knows how to perform their job with avg gear than clueless player who run around with an relic/emp.

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Originally Posted by Dreamin

Well said!

Each player has different goals and how they want to play this game. I've said many times before, having 'XYZ' gear/weapon doesn't automatically make a player a great or even good player. Not having 'XYZ' gear/weapon also doesn't automatically make a player a bad player. Sure gear is one aspect of this game, but understanding and actually knowing how to play your job(s) is probably a lot more important then getting 'XYZ' gear/weapon but is completely clueless on the job(s).

I'll trade a player that knows how to perform their job with avg gear than clueless player who run around with an relic/emp.

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99 % of being a good player is gearing well, the other 1% is casting knowing when to cancel utsusemi

99% of being a good player is swapping gear well, slight adjustment but otherwise the right sentiment.

I have a few Empyreans, but I'm making a Relic now because I feel like it. Neither are that hard. Mythics are a whole other beast, though.

If you dun like the nerf you can rage quit.




But, I think you won't. No until you find another game to spend your time on.

I don't agree with the nerfs either but i also do not agree with being called lazy because i do not level an empy weapon. real life>then empy weapon, thank you

This thread is so backwards in logic, it's beyond description. I really shouldn't muster any sympathy for WAR & MNK Empyrean users' weapon skills being scaled back but this pattern of reducing players' damage potential overall is getting out of control. This whole situation has NOTHING to do with any form of "laziness", however. If anything, S-E should be condemned for not bringing all other non-Empyrean Weapon Skills close to where the Empyreans were (or not allowing non-Empyrean owners access to the Weapon Skills themselves like Mythics, for that matter).

The laziness you seek to call out lies in the development room of S-E, not in the non-elite players.

I have an emp weapon, so I guess I am not lazy in the OP definition of lazy. Regardless, let me make the opposite argument, that some who pick Ukko/Vsmite are the lazy ones. They bandwagon the latest hot job up, because they don't have the knowledge or skill or passion to pick a job and try to make it great. They need broken game mechanics to ever win a parse. My first DD was mnk back when it wasn't cool, I remember working and gearing my butt off in salvage, etc to outdd the bandwagons sams. The time I beat all the SAMs in an einherjar parse was a great day for me at 75. I actually started to enjoy MNK a lot less during the abyssea era, because it seemed so easy. Took the fun out. Plus my beloved job was now the bandwagon DD I had strived to beat. If you love WAR though for WAR, you will overcome this. You will still be a top DD, probably still the best if you gear/play the job right.

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Originally Posted by Greatguardian

99% of being a good player is swapping gear well, slight adjustment but otherwise the right sentiment.

I have a few Empyreans, but I'm making a Relic now because I feel like it. Neither are that hard. Mythics are a whole other beast, though.

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Swapping gear makes you a good player? LOL I am pretty sure most of you use windower to do those gear swaps. How does having a program swap gear for you make YOU a good player? LOL

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Originally Posted by Sonshou

If you dun like the nerf you can rage quit.




But, I think you won't. No until you find another game to spend your time on.

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Totally off topic. But if you guys want a good story based MMO Star Wars the old republic is pretty good.

The only thing that really pisses me off about this is that this also affects WoE holders. For those of us who did these trials going down the WoE path: the only great thing about those weapons was the Weapon Skill. Now that these weapon skills are going to be nerfed, this will give people even less of a reason to do WoE. I really feel like I wasted so much time on some weapons that will be in a few months time totally useless.

Laziness is never farming gil or <insert something considered "work" aka you DO NOT want to do whatsoever>. Being anti social or lacking the ability to dual box by whatever means is never farming an Empyrean. There's a distinct difference between the two.

Also, maybe they're just nerfing stuff because it's long overdue. If you're really pissed about this and don't get over it fast and stay pissed, it's probably because you know you were overpowered. Jeez, it's not like Ukko's Fury is going to be doing Raging Rush/Rampage damage post nerfs. I'm not pleased that they go back on their word and that PR ends up being just that but whatever. I know this stuff is overpowered when I still destroy things outside Abyssea.

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Originally Posted by Vold

Laziness is never farming gil or <insert something considered "work" aka you DO NOT want to do whatsoever>. Being anti social or lacking the ability to dual box by whatever means is never farming an Empyrean. There's a distinct difference between the two.

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Exactly, don't know why the topic creator felt the need to insult us the player base because SQUARE ENIX decided that Warrior and Monk are too powerful. I wish Square Enix wouldn't nerf jobs. I wish Square Enix would make Monk and Ranger how they were when they were first introduced but life isn't fair. We all can't get what we want. It kills me how SE trys to go for realism in a game where there's flying airships and birds you ride that can't fly.(Again talking about ranger nerf, was so disappointed when I found out what has become of ranger when I restarted last year)

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Originally Posted by svengalis

Swapping gear makes you a good player? LOL I am pretty sure most of you use windower to do those gear swaps. How does having a program swap gear for you make YOU a good player? LOL

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Swapping gear does make you a good player. You must be one of those people that think there's skill involved in a game that's about mashing macros.

I'm more confused by how you think there is something that magically knows what gear to change for you without you having to tell it what to change.

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Originally Posted by svengalis

Swapping gear makes you a good player? LOL I am pretty sure most of you use windower to do those gear swaps. How does having a program swap gear for you make YOU a good player? LOL

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FFXI has macros without having to resort to a third party tool, and I'd do not appreciate being called a cheater for knowing how to use those macros to be a better player.

You may not have been talking to me or any number of the other people who might pile in here to correct your extremely misguided statement, but there is nothing wrong with using the macro system SE gave us as much as possible.

Even something braindead simple like macroing in gear for WS or different staffs isn't that hard and doesn't make you blink like the holiday lighting on an evergreen. Even if you are only doing simple gear swaps only a tiny bit of the time, your effectiveness skyrockets (and swapping all the time has diminishing returns anyways) and you never have to touch a third party tool to do it. I'm quite lazy about playing the game the majority of the time, but it would be quite irresponsible if I only wore my haste or cure potency set 100% of the time.

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Originally Posted by Beathoi

I guess they won't learn until people just flat out quit and stop buying FF products...

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Speaking of people not buying FF games! I just saw this news story about how bad the sales are for FF13-2. Maybe SE will get a clue soon.

http://www.sankakucomplex.com/2011/1...ntasy-is-dead/

Opening paragraph really says it all.
"Final Fantasy XIII-2′s first week sales figures reveal it has been outsold by Tales of Xillia, a fact which is being greeted as a massive humiliation and confirmation that the Final Fantasy brand now lies in ruins."

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Originally Posted by svengalis

Swapping gear makes you a good player? LOL I am pretty sure most of you use windower to do those gear swaps. How does having a program swap gear for you make YOU a good player? LOL

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Obviously doesn't know how spellcast or windower scripts work. They're essentially just macros with more lines. If they were super magic doodads that swapped all our whosits and whatnots with no input from the player, we'd call them bots.

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Originally Posted by wish12oz

Speaking of people not buying FF games! I just saw this news story about how bad the sales are for FF13-2. Maybe SE will get a clue soon.

http://www.sankakucomplex.com/2011/1...ntasy-is-dead/

Opening paragraph really says it all.
"Final Fantasy XIII-2′s first week sales figures reveal it has been outsold by Tales of Xillia, a fact which is being greeted as a massive humiliation and confirmation that the Final Fantasy brand now lies in ruins."

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This really doesnt mean much considering Tales is a freaking HUGE series in Japan.

US hasnt even gotten most of the tales games and doesnt sell as well here at all but their games were always epicly amazing.

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Originally Posted by Kimble

This really doesnt mean much considering Tales is a freaking HUGE series in Japan.

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FF13: 1,516,532
FF13-2: 524,217
FF10: 1,749,737
FF10-2: 1,472,914″
Tales of Xillia sold 525,605 in its first week

First week numbers. It is a big deal. A series that always does over 1mil at launch just did half that. Even FF13 did 1.5. Tales is not that big, FF is suppose to be.

Agreeing with Wish, not just FF13-2 but FFXIII's 8 week sales total was less than X-2, that's astoundingly bad.

I'm not saying the numbers aren't good, but comparing it to a Tales series game which are very big games in JP is really stretching it.

Comparing it to previous FFs XXIII sold less than X-2, and that was the second worse FF in terms of first 8 week sales. There's just no defending that.

FFXIII-2 also happened to sell less than Tales of Xillia's in its opening week when pretty much every other FF's opening sales were almost/greater than double Xillia's.

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Originally Posted by Kimble

I'm not saying the numbers aren't good, but comparing it to a Tales series game which are very big games in JP is really stretching it.

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The problem I have with your statement is that FF games outsell Tales games 3 to 1, and you're saying Tales games are big and its not a big deal. It clearly is a big deal as FF games should outsell Tales games 3 to 1, but instead Tales is outselling FF.

http://www.gamasutra.com/view/news/3..._Franchise.php

It's gotten to the point where I wouldn't even be upset if SE went under. Maybe Wada will panic and clean house and Tanaka will get tossed out with the trash.