Hi guys
I wondered what the damage output would be if a Spiritreaver head + Stormwaker body used Blizz V with these atmas/equipment:
Atma:
-Minikin Monstrosity
-Beyond
-Impregnable Tower / Ultimate
Equipment:
Feet:
Pantin babouches >> Automaton: Magick Attack Bonus +5
Cirque Scarpe +2 >> Automaton: INT +13
Legs:
Pantin Churidas +1 >> Automaton: Magic Accuracy +7
I know it wouldn't be groundbreaking since BLM does it best, but any info would be appreciated + if there are any other equipment that enhances any magic related parameters of an automaton please share ^^
Spiritreaver Blizz V Build
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11-16-2011, 06:55 AMKaelthasSpiritreaver Blizz V Build
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11-16-2011, 08:16 AMTheytakYou must be new to pup, lol. Pup nukes have always had the highest per-hit numbers when compared to blms and schs, which makes up for the fact that we can't nuke nearly as fast, or with as much variety/control. With Blizz/Thunder V it's fairly easy for me to break 5k in abyssea with minikin/ultimate (don't have beyond, or other nuking atmas, much to my annoyance). Also, in abyssea, always use relic feet over scarpe+2. 13 int can't beat 5 mab added to the insane amounts of mab we already get. Also, Cirque Pantaloni +2 (+10 skill) typically beat relic legs +1, but you're list of nuking gear is rather small...Quote:
Originally Posted by Kaelthas
proper nuking gear:
Ice path Taipan Fangs +2/3; Pet: MAB+10, and you can do them from no trials to +2 in less than a day
Mirke Wardecors: Pet: MAB+7 Macc+7 (I can understand not having this if you're a cor main given how amazing this body is for quickdraw with different augments, but otherwise not having it for nuking is either lazy, or like me, means you have absolutely terrible luck with getting a group for the ACP final fight)
Pantin Babouches: Pet: MAB+5
Cirque Earring: Pet: MAB+2
And if you feel like tapping your inner masochist, there's a whole slew of pet: MAB gear that you can get from the ACP/AMK/ASA random augment system
also, Loudspeaker, Loudspeaker II, Ice Maker, Mana Channeler, Optic Fiber, no exceptions (I know OF is expensive and MC is to a lesser degree, but they're worth it).
I can't attest to our current max damage since I've been away from the game for a while and am missing a good deal of crap as far as atmas are concerned, but based on what I know of the atmas and our available gear, I can't see it being difficult to break 6k with bliz5, and thunder5 shouldn't be far behind (it'll be ahead if you're not using beyond) -
11-16-2011, 06:31 PMGaelNo. The af 3+2 pwn the relic (+1) in almost all situation where you need to use the blm automaton.Quote:
always use relic feet over scarpe+2. 13 int can't beat 5 mab added to the insane amounts of mab we already get
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About atma :
Impregnable Tower is never a good option, MM too (you dont have a MP issue). Ultimate, Baying Moon and Beyond is usually the best combo for an automaton (unless you have the PW atma). -
11-16-2011, 06:45 PMTheytakI've never once gotten higher damage with the AF3+1, and the difference has always been significant enough that I can't see the extra 5 int being enough to change that...Quote:
Originally Posted by Gael
I do agree on the atmas though. The only reason I typically use MM is because I'm rarely doing something where I use strictly one puppet the entire time, typically I swap back and forth between Spiritreaver and Soulsoother (usually soloing pages, alternating lights). and I also have shit for MAB atmas. -
11-16-2011, 07:36 PMGaelWho talk about af 3+1 ? Yes the af 3+1 and the af 2 (+1) are kinda the same (especially outside). The af 3+2 is a bit better and save you 1 inventory space. So no reason to keep the relic feet ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by Theytak
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11-17-2011, 04:11 AMKaelthas
Thanks very much Theytalk ^_^
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11-17-2011, 05:27 AMAnzaAgreed. Cirque+2 shoes make Pantin something you can leave with the Porter Moogle. Heck, Cirque+1 and Pantin are so close that the inventory-1 of just carrying Cirque+1 sways me.Quote:
Originally Posted by Gael
As for atma, Beyond+Ultimate for sure. Beyond is also still the best for Thunder V, even though you lose Beyond's excellent boost to Ice based spells it's still great just for the MAB+30.
For 3rd atma, Baying Moon or MM are pretty close. MM has nearly as good MAB (INT+50 = MAB+25) as Baying Moon (MAB+30), and the refresh and enmity- don't hurt particularly if you keep the puppet out for a couple nukes. If you have a mage sub on, the refresh is also massively helpful to the master here. Baying Moon does have Atk+30, which doesn't hurt if you're punching something... but if you have 2 other mage atmas on your DD ability is going to be pretty bad anyway.
You might even just use the 3rd atma slot for some other utility. Apoc for auto-RR3, Sea Daughter for big regain (nice for procs)/daytime regen, a pure DD atma to be able to contribute better through master DD, Dread for Treasure Hunter, Ambition for movement speed+, etc.
I was lucky enough to get a Pet MAB+2 Diamond Earring (ACP final fight) and Pet MAB+1 Altius Mantle (MKE final fight) on my first try of each. Haven't seen any more pet MAB augments in the 1-2 additional fights I've done of each, but they're out there.Quote:
Originally Posted by Theytak
You probably want the armor from those fights anyway if you have the mini-expansions, Mirke with pet nuke augments is completely unique and quite strong. MKE head is a great WS piece or pet haste/damage taken- piece. So maybe you get lucky with an earring or back piece while you're there. -
11-17-2011, 05:47 AMTheytak
In regards to the AF3+2 feet, that's definitely something I'll have to keep in mind. I'm only at 2 stones atm because the bulk of the group I play with has been pretty much mia for a while now, and I absolutely despise pugs. There's to much history of headaches and heartaches with them on siren for me to be willing to put up with them, so I generally get limited to shit I can solo, and +2 dropping mobs are very few and far between on that list (more due to my laziness than whether I actually can solo them if I try). also for the the record, Anza, the earring is from the second-to-last ACP fight, in qu'bia arena. The final ACP fight gives the augmented rings, like the +6 acc Pet: +acc angel's ring.
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11-17-2011, 05:10 PMZhronneEhr no?Quote:
Originally Posted by Anza
You're forgetting Atma of the Hell's Guardian.
Unless I'm missing something here...
(which is likely, considering I normally suck! :p)
Also, the augmented earring come from ACP last fight? I thought they came from the Fey'yin BC. -
11-17-2011, 08:24 PMDfoley
Why bother with a blizz 5 build when your auto with cast thunder 5 first now?
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11-17-2011, 09:02 PMesoR
in abyssea i haven't figured out a proper atma setup where thunder V consistently deals more damage than blizzard, unless you did minikin/ultimate/hell's i guess, then they'd be more equal. lion/blinding horn don't really compare to beyond, so i guess gearing for bliz is just simpler. that or OP didn't know pup got thunder V.
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11-17-2011, 10:21 PMZhronneDidn't do the math, but I doubt they'd be equal.Quote:
Originally Posted by esoR
I have no trouble believing Blizzard V would be better.
Problem here is rather that, like someone else said already, your automaton will prioritize Thunder V over Blizzard V, so it doesn't make much sense to focus on the latter one.
It made a lot of sense when the level cap was 90 I guess. -
11-18-2011, 08:46 AMTheytakGiven that Hell's Guardian is obtained by beating Pandemonium Warden, most people ignore its existance.Quote:
Originally Posted by Zhronne
because with atmaof the beyond, blizz 5 will out do thunder 5, and the automaton only prioritizes the spell that will deal the most damage.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dfoley
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11-18-2011, 09:48 AMGaelThe atmas dont affect the choice. If you have the skill for thunder 5 and if the mob doesnt resist to thunder spell, your automaton will cast thunder 5 even with beyond.Quote:
Originally Posted by Theytak
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11-18-2011, 03:25 PMTheytakthat is bizarreQuote:
Originally Posted by Gael
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11-18-2011, 04:20 PMZhronne
It's not bizarre at all, it's bizarre to think it would be any other way. Altough I agree that things *SHOULD* have been the way you said Theytak, but alas they're not.
The AI doesn't consider Atmas, Atmacites or other temp bonuses when it "decides" which spell would be better. TBH I think it makes no calculation/math at all, it just takes the latest spell learned and, as long as the enemy doesn't have a resistance to that element, he will keep prioritizing that.
It also has to be noted that some mobs probably have resistance "coded" in a different way, since the AI doesn't "feel" it, just like it doesn't feel mobs that change resistances or gain immunity mid-fight, at least those I've been able to test PUP on.
Dunno if things will change after the current patch will hit live servers, but I doubt it will. -
11-19-2011, 02:36 AMDfoley
That was exactly my point:-)
You can gear for bliz 5 all you want but you will see:
Thunder 5
Blizz 5
Aspir I
Thunder 5
Apsir II
Aspir I
Thunder 5
If the atma forced it to use blizzard 5, sure, but the only time that happens is when i fight a mob immune to the top tier spell (aka ice immune mobs, it uses fire 5). -
11-19-2011, 05:53 AMAnnahyaForgive me if I am wrong, but I was to understand that MAB is a separate trait that is not modified by stats beyond "Magic Attack Bonus." Granted, +INT will help in the calculation of dINT, but I don't think it impacts MAB in any way.Quote:
Originally Posted by Anza
Wiki Article on MAB
Wiki Article on INT
Wiki Article on Calculating Magic Damage
If I am incorrect, I apologize - but I think MAB is kind of "it's own thing" - I am not stating that +INT is not beneficial, just that I don't think MM's +50 INT adds any actual MAB. -
11-19-2011, 09:01 AMesoR
Mab is related to int as attack is related to str, i believe - in most cases.
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11-20-2011, 02:38 AMZhronne
I don't know if it's different for pets (but why should it?), but as long as I know Annahya is correct.
People usually say 2INT = 1mab as a quick example, to simplify things, because in a wide range of situations the final damage of your spells will be increase by the same amount by 2int as it would by 1mab.
I don't think Anza meant to say that 50 int REALLY give 25mab, it was just a quick example/comparison.
A lot of times 2int roughly corresponds to 1mab, but of course this is very unaccurate and it depends a lot on your gear and your target. Sometimes on the spell too (there are spells who receive higher benefit from INT than mab, for example helixes and Kaustra) -
11-27-2011, 12:32 PMAnnalise
STR to attack is nothing like INT to MAB. They are two completely different things, though they work in the same formula.
When MAB gets really high and INT is lower, INT has a huge effect. Inversely, if INT is high and MAB is low, MAB has a huge effect.
Summoner can see this the most.
When given two atmas, people dropped minikin (+50 int) for baying moon (+30 mab) when using heavenly strike with beyond (30 mab, 30 ice). The numbers were nearly identical, and you lost out on the 10/tick refresh.
Pup is very much the same, since our automaton's don't get cruor buffs or gear buffs. If you're going for max nukes, you will want minikin.
The best damage for nuking as far as atma goes is a combination of:
The highest MAB you can get (50)
The highest +element you can get (30)
The highest INT you can get (50)
If you have too high of MAB and not much int, you're not doing yourself much good. All these things multiply against one another, which is why you want more.
If you had for magic attack bonus, say.. three ice maneuvers up with loud speaker 2 (25), mana channeler (10), ice maker (60), tapian (10), and ACP body (7) that puts your automaton at a base MAB of 112
Adding Ultimate on top of that puts you at 162, which is a 23.58% increase in damage. It's much less than you'd expect from 50 MAB. Add Baying moon onto that, at 192 and you increase damage by 11.45% which really isn't much.
The +element stuff, though, is exactly what it reads. Ice+30 will actually increase your damage by 30% as far as puppetmaster is concerned. Whereas MAB+30 isn't necessarily a 30% increase. Though, stacking them has diminishing returns as well. For example, lone wolf (30 fire) will increase fire by 30%. Adding on smoldering sky (30) is a 23.08% increase.
As far as int is concerned... with your 162 MAB, each int is essentially worth 2.62X what it's worth with no magic attack bonus. Add on top of that a +elemental damage atma, and you can see why int is also essential.
So really... if you're going for damage, choose your spell, and pick a MAB, INT, and the matching element for best results. -
11-27-2011, 02:59 PMLuckycharmss
I could not have said it better myself, I approve your post Annalise nice job on explaining i am terrible at explaining lol
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11-30-2011, 12:24 AMTesahadeThere is a bit of misleading information hereQuote:
Originally Posted by Annalise
1. for a smn what you say about MM vs Baying may be true, but for a pup it is not that cut and dry and that's because of ice maker which brings us to...
2. your using ice maker incorrectly:
Loud speaker II +25
Mana Channler +10
Tapain +10
ACP Body +7
Total = +52MAB(AKA: +52%)
Now you add that to ur base dmg equaling 152% then calculate ice maker which is a +60% magic dmg(Like a non-specific Magic Affinity) not MAB meaning it multiples MAB as well as your base dmg equaling +91.2
Total with Ice Maker= +143.2%(aka: 143.2 MAB)
Ice Maker Info
3. Now in the most ideal situation meaning Auto int > Mob int (by 50 or more) +50 int equates to 114.95 dmg its a nice chunk of dmg, but unless your operating at or more then 360% magic dmg then the 414 dmg(50% of Bliz V base dmg) you get from +50 MAB(+30 MAB + 60% from ice maker) will win out. +260 MAB isn't hard to get in abyssea but just something to keep in mind -
12-02-2011, 03:04 PMAnnaliseOh, my bad on Ice Maker. I always thought it was MAB. It's even better than I had imagined then being what it is.Quote:
Originally Posted by Tesahade