New SCH 2 Hour

So we know SE is working on brand new 2 hour abilities for each job. We've had a host of ideas here on SCH abilities, but I didn't see any suggestions for SCH in the merit third tier thread. Has anyone given much thought to what a new 2 hour could be for SCH?

It's very uncreative I admit, but I keep thinking of a mage/light element counterpart to Tabula Rasa's melee/dark element spells. Faith and Ultima have been mentioned before but given the recent adjustments to TR, the new 2 hour seems like the perfect place to put these spells. I can't believe I'm advocating more nice SCH spells being strapped by time like this, but I guess I'm learning to have more SE-istic expectations.

Whereas Embrava provides regen, regain and attack speed (primarily for melee although mages benefit nicely from recast reduction), Faith would provide a potent refresh, fast cast and conserve MP bonus? What else would work better here I wonder? I'd suggest MACC/MAB but MACC will be available via Klimaform all the time (new duration, albeit just for one weather effect) and neither fits the "over time" and speed theme of Embrava.

I kind of like the tug of war over who should get Ultima if it were ever introduced. Naturally I think it should go to SCH :p but I'll refrain from all the supposedly objective arguments based on a scorecard of past games and just say I want it for my favorite job. People insist it would be non-elemental but I don't see that happening with a FFXI nuke, so I'd like to see it as a light based counterpart to Kaustra. There have been too many times when I really wanted to Kaustra something to death but then it's strong to dark element :/

So who has the ultimate suggestion for SCH's new 2 hour?

I personally would not like any more 2hr spells (unless the spell was ultima for reasons i stated in the job adjustment thread). Embrava and Kaustra are nice additions but I want to be useful outside my 2hr. They should give SCH faith and bravery natively imo (maybe as tier III merits?, meh). As for the 2hr, it would have to be something amazing to use it instead of tabula rasa. I think SE said they would be on shared timers or something. Because embravaing an 18 man alliance is kind of hard to pass up.

Haven't you guys received enough buffs???

Yeah, when is Kaustra going to be nerfed? Seriously SE is going to let scholars solo shin and voidwatch?

While new spells are possible merits for scholar, I forsee many of the merits not so much adding two hours and spells (except maybe for BLM) but moreso things that will augment the abilities further. For example, meriting so stratagem charges are not used up on cast, or embrava/kaustra simultaneous potency bonus, duration bonus, or accuracy bonus, etc.

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Originally Posted by Cljader1

Haven't you guys received enough buffs???

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Quantity =/= Quality

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Originally Posted by Siiri

Yeah, when is Kaustra going to be nerfed? Seriously SE is going to let scholars solo shin and voidwatch?

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LOL

How is that LOL? SE nerfed souleater when drks were killing AV, but yet Sch can solo vw NMs and Shin without a brew? WTF?

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Originally Posted by Delvish

While new spells are possible merits for scholar, I forsee many of the merits not so much adding two hours and spells (except maybe for BLM) but moreso things that will augment the abilities further. For example, meriting so stratagem charges are not used up on cast, or embrava/kaustra simultaneous potency bonus, duration bonus, or accuracy bonus, etc.

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IIRC there are supposed to be tier 3 merits that enhance current 2-hour performance, but also additional 2-hour abilities that are different from the current 2-hour. I like your ideas for merits that enhance the current 2-hour spells but I'm wondering what people are thinking about the all-new 2-hour for SCH.

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Originally Posted by Siiri

Yeah, when is Kaustra going to be nerfed?

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I'd honestly prefer WHM be nerfed.

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Originally Posted by Siiri

Seriously SE is going to let scholars solo shin and voidwatch?

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I'm looking forward to doing it myself! IMO if SE is going to let brews rain from the sky I wouldn't be surprised if the next step were to let multiple jobs solo tougher battles with proper skill.

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Originally Posted by Cljader1

Haven't you guys received enough buffs???

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Not for my taste. WHM has received too many useful buffs. SCH received a bowl of rotten lemons until someone accidentally made two useful spells and hid them behind an enormous timer. Plus, that really isn't the point. It's been announced that all jobs will be receiving new 2-hours. I don't think SCH will be an exception because other jobs are jealous.

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Originally Posted by Pebe

I personally would not like any more 2hr spells (unless the spell was ultima for reasons i stated in the job adjustment thread). Embrava and Kaustra are nice additions but I want to be useful outside my 2hr. They should give SCH faith and bravery natively imo (maybe as tier III merits?, meh). As for the 2hr, it would have to be something amazing to use it instead of tabula rasa. I think SE said they would be on shared timers or something. Because embravaing an 18 man alliance is kind of hard to pass up.

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I agree it's becoming annoying to gear up SCH for 12.5 minutes at a time. I do still enjoy it but I also would prefer that new spells not be limited in this way. Unfortunately what we've seen is if they are not limited as such, they end up laughably weak. As far as choosing a new 2-hour over Tabula Rasa, I agree it would have to be very potent. That's why sticking Ultima in there comes to mind as a light counterpart to Kaustra. Make it work the same way and be as powerful, just light based. I don't know about Embrava and Faith being available all the time though. Embrava is a little too good. I'd expect a big nerf if it weren't limited to 2-hour.

I pointed this out before...

Job Ability: Mix
Duration: lasts for 1 min or until you mix 2 (can be 3 if SE wants) spells
The input spells: The input spells could be whatever spells that character knows with sub job. For example your on SCH but you've got /BLU spells on your character.
The Output spell: The output spell would be a ??? spell that the SCH creates. Some mixes may be offensive, some may be defensive, some could give the party an edge, some could hurt the PT or SCH w/ a side effect.

To make things fair the ??? spell can not be enhanced by stratagems. These spells have their own effect incorporated in them. For example "Barthundra" + "shockspikes" would be a positive Mix to create "lightningeater." Being that its a WHM aoe bar spell it makes it AoE however, the duration of the spell will be cut in halve. If the spell was RDM's "barthunder" spell it would have a longer duration but single target.

And to answer the question "Will the spell be castable on others even though its not AoE?" Yes, but some spells will be, some will not.

This would give SCH a vast amount of new unique spells. The only problem is it would be a 2hr still.

Conforto Ars (latin for: drasticly Improved Strategems)
5 Minute Duration
2 Hour Recast

Unlocks the full potential of all of your stratagems.

Dark arts:

Parsimony:
Reduces MP costs by an additional 25% (-100% mp costs when used with AF3 armor)

Alacrity:
Reduces casting and Recasting speed by an additional 25%

Manifestation:
allows any spell matching your current art to be cast as an area of effect spell.

Ebulience:
Increases damage bonus by another 20% (50% total with AF3 Bonus)

Immanence:
Increases Skill chain tier by 1 (Liquefaction > fusion, Fusion > light, ect ect)

the same thing would pretty much happen to the light arts, with the exception of perpetuance

Perpetuance:
Increases Duration by 50% (300% with +2 Hands)

kaustra and embrava would be castable under this 2HR as well.

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Originally Posted by Katalsar

I pointed this out before...

Job Ability: Mix
Duration: lasts for 1 min or until you mix 2 (can be 3 if SE wants) spells
The input spells: The input spells could be whatever spells that character knows with sub job. For example your on SCH but you've got /BLU spells on your character.
The Output spell: The output spell would be a ??? spell that the SCH creates. Some mixes may be offensive, some may be defensive, some could give the party an edge, some could hurt the PT or SCH w/ a side effect.

To make things fair the ??? spell can not be enhanced by stratagems. These spells have their own effect incorporated in them. For example "Barthundra" + "shockspikes" would be a positive Mix to create "lightningeater." Being that its a WHM aoe bar spell it makes it AoE however, the duration of the spell will be cut in halve. If the spell was RDM's "barthunder" spell it would have a longer duration but single target.

And to answer the question "Will the spell be castable on others even though its not AoE?" Yes, but some spells will be, some will not.

This would give SCH a vast amount of new unique spells. The only problem is it would be a 2hr still.

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I always wondered how the concept of Mix from other FF games would fit in the FFXI world. The problem is what I liked about it in those games I fear would be lost here. First, it was the discoverability factor if you didn't have a strategy guide open. With wiki at my fingertips I'm afraid I'd just look up the best combos in XI. Second was the reliance on having the items to do the best combinations. If we were just combining spells we already had of course you'd always have them, dependant on your sub of course. And that's what might make this interesting in the end - is if combinations offered via /WHM or /BLU made those subs attractive. But then you'd have to live with those subs outside the 2 hour as well.

In the end we'd have to have a reason to "mix" spells rather than just giving SCH the combinations as regular spells only available under 2 hour. For example, would we really be doing anything different if SE said you have to "mix" Thunder and Blizzard to create Kaustra? I'd think I would just be annoyed that I couldn't just cast Kaustra. Especially since the Mix command and the extra spell would take up two more macro lines. But maybe it's the sub job choice that would do it in the end. For example, you can't get Ultima without subbing DRK ... lol.

Is anyone else thinking Red Grimoire for secondary 2 hour? It fits the flavor and back story of SCH. While quite weak, it would be funny if it were like the DRG's old Call Wyvern 2 hr with a book following you around casting spells and biting people. (SE PLEASE DON'T DO THIS! IT'S A JOKE!)

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Originally Posted by Einalem

Is anyone else thinking Red Grimoire for secondary 2 hour? It fits the flavor and back story of SCH. While quite weak, it would be funny if it were like the DRG's old Call Wyvern 2 hr with a book following you around casting spells and biting people. (SE PLEASE DON'T DO THIS! IT'S A JOKE!)

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Joke? This is brilliant.

Scholars would get a 2 hour Crimson Grimoire. The Grimoire would share the player's health while out until it is killed or the player dies (or a few minutes pass, I suppose... but is this really neccisary?). It would do whatever the Scholar does, and have the same stats and everything. When hit, the player would take the damage however (but stuff like the book duplicating strats or spells wouldn't cost extra MP or strats, and it would also not feed TP or generate extra aggro, however it would always be the target rather then the Scholar itself). Mostly though, it would encourage the Scholar to do stupid things like melee unnecessarily in order to see the book bite things, which would piss off Puppetmasters everywhere who are now mad that Scholars now get a pet that is not only cuter then theirs, but has better AI too.

i wholeheartedly love Crimson Grimoire idea, but i dont think se would make it so it stays out i believe if they considered it it would probably be spawned like when you use light arts or dark arts and open a red book and maybe have it mirror the things you do like enfeebling nuking healing enhancing etc and have it be spawned for a certain period of time id say probably 5-10 minutes

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Originally Posted by Economizer

Joke? This is brilliant.

Scholars would get a 2 hour Crimson Grimoire. The Grimoire would share the player's health while out until it is killed or the player dies (or a few minutes pass, I suppose... but is this really neccisary?). It would do whatever the Scholar does, and have the same stats and everything. When hit, the player would take the damage however (but stuff like the book duplicating strats or spells wouldn't cost extra MP or strats, and it would also not feed TP or generate extra aggro, however it would always be the target rather then the Scholar itself). Mostly though, it would encourage the Scholar to do stupid things like melee unnecessarily in order to see the book bite things, which would piss off Puppetmasters everywhere who are now mad that Scholars now get a pet that is not only cuter then theirs, but has better AI too.

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This sounds both amazing and hilarious. It would also go with the theme of many Scholars summoning some kind of tube or book to help them out, which hasn't been applied to players at all.

Ever since new 2-hour abilities and Tier-3 merits were mentioned, I've been wondering how jobs that already kinda sorta have multiple 2-hour abilities such as Summoner and Scholar are going to fair. Also, I wonder if the newer 2-hour abilities of Scholar and Summoner are good examples of what every job can expect.

If Embrava and Perfect Defense can be seen as the standard for what any new defensive or supportive 2-hour abilities will add, that stuff is going to be awesome.

what about if new 2hr being a whole new book? ill use the above crimson grimora. It will have both white black spells in it with a benefit to all <less then when under dark or light arts> and it will incorporate some unique stratagems such as those traps/tubes the sch npc in campg uses? a rough outline im thinking would be:

30min duration<or until you switch back to light/dark arts or die>
5%mp/recast/cast reductions
all skills @ B or B-
some spells that maintain the bonuses:
cures
nukes
regens
buffs(prot/shell)
sch specific spells(regain helix etc>

other spells will still get the negative -5% bonuses

stratagems under this book:
- a 50%? potency boost to next spell doubles recast and casting
- plant a trap (aoe status effects, player chooses from a list)
- plant ruin-something (much like the traps except these provide AoE buffs they are stationary where used..player chooses from list not sure what buffs but thinking some standard stuff like acc atk regen refresh etc, they last 3min?)
- next spell is cast instantly, recast is doubled<tripled?>
- next spell cost 0 mp casting time is double and potency receives penalty <10%? or something>
- next storm will be doubled (as in double weather, retains cap of 2 weather effects if a 3rd natural one is present)


some notes:
- under this 2hr regain gains a potency boost, animus spells will gradually lose and gain hate respectively while it is active on a player.
- regen, and helix all receive bonus<helix and regen bonus from respective arts work under this book>

disclaimer: this is all just rough idea so ya im sure most of it needs reworking or dropping altogether, the point is just to get the idea across.

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Originally Posted by brayen

what about if new 2hr being a whole new book? ill use the above crimson grimora. It will have both white black spells in it with a benefit to all <less then when under dark or light arts> and it will incorporate some unique stratagems such as those traps/tubes the sch npc in campg uses? a rough outline im thinking would be:

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Well... if y'all want to be buzz killingtons and say that a summonable book that bites people isn't a good idea, you could just make a Crimson Grimoire effect. It would last X time (being semi-lengthy at least) and what it would do is boost all magic skills to B+, all spells would cost 10% less and cast 10% faster, and you'd have access to all stratagems. The downside? If you use Add. White or Add. Black you lose the Crimson Grimoire (or if you zone or die).

I still say a summonable book that duplicates everything you do is the best idea.

a duplicate of whatever you do is sorta overpowered lol and very fragile 2hr. I mean you would be doing double bliz 5s on every cast as well as double cure 4s? and if it lacks duplicate gear bonus then it will be severely underpowered.

But ya can call me buzzkillington ;p i want to hear some more probable ideas that can be useful. My idea is just basically a way to buff up our overall magics while adding unique features to still make it a strong 2hr where kasutra/embrave would not be used(as they said the new 2hr will share timer with original 2hr)

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I still say a summonable book that duplicates everything you do is the best idea.

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Have it cost your hp when it casts spells and give it fangs like this || and I'm sold!

I wish I could tolerate playing pet jobs because the live Crimson Grimoire chomping people like that one rabid Harry Potter book is too good of an image to say no to. In fact I'd take a pet for 3 minutes every 2 hours if this was it.

Schultz' Monster Book of Monsters, {yes, please}.