6 hit Cala vs 7 Hit Cala.

6 hit Cala vs 7 hit Cala

Mathy part.

To loss in tp gain on 6 Cala is around

15 accish so it's a 7.5%-8% loss in tp speed where acc matters.

Therefore for
6 hit || 5 X 430 / (0.9-0.08) = 2621 delay (on avg per WS)
7 Hit || 6 X 430 / 0.9 = 2866 delay

2866/2621 = 1.09

Meaning 6 hit Cala when acc matter
WSes 9% faster
20% when acc doesn't matter

Loss in DMG from inferiour WS build

We'll consider feet waist neck Ring X 2 and ammo

Feet 5 STR 5 VIT
Waist 5 STR 5 VIT
Rings x 2 12 VIT and 4 STR
Neck 9 VIT
Ammo 4 VIT

Total loss = 35 VIT and 14 STR = 35*0.6 + 14*0.25 = +24.5 Base DMG in WS


The base for 6 hit is around 127 VIT in gear + stats
(i'll ignore fstr here since it's the same on both and mob vary so much it's not worth considering for this comparison)

127*0.6 = 76 Base DMG

120 + 76 = 196 Base DMG for 6 hit
196 + 25 = 221 Base DMG for 7 hit

221/196 = +12% Torclever DMG for 7 hit.

Therefore

If acc is a issue 7 hit > 6 hit by 3-6% DMG ((1/1.09)*1.12 = 1.03)
If acc isn't an issue 6 hit > 7 hit by 7-10% DMG ((1.20*(1/1.12 = 1.10)

Either way alot of this is rough (but easily accurate enough to prove this) and i gave +3% to 7 hit cause of Da and things which i didn't fully account for but to the point.

In cases outside VW and Abyssea 6 hit is the way to go unless you have acc issues.

Inside VW Save tp atma makes only 1 hit build suitible (5 Hit) for cala
Inside Abyssea it's not worth thinking about too much since theres more to consider b/cause of atmas and varied sititations.

Small edit :
w/ capped magic haste i can use Adaman body (3 Stp ) which allow me to use remove another 15 store tp for WS (inc body)

w/ Amada 5 Stp you could remove 29 store tp meaning almost no loss in WS DMG

Which also means in capped haste situation 6 Hit > 7 hit (if ya have adaman/Amada body)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Rezeak

6 hit Cala vs 7 hit Cala

Mathy part.

To loss in tp gain on 6 Cala is around

15 accish so it's a 7.5%-8% loss in tp speed where acc matters.

Therefore for
6 hit || 5 X 430 / (0.9-0.08) = 2621 delay (on avg per WS)
7 Hit || 6 X 430 / 0.9 = 2866 delay

2866/2621 = 1.09

Meaning 6 hit Cala when acc matter
WSes 9% faster
20% when acc doesn't matter

Loss in DMG from inferiour WS build

We'll consider feet waist neck Ring X 2 and ammo

Feet 5 STR 5 VIT
Waist 5 STR 5 VIT
Rings x 2 12 VIT and 4 STR
Neck 9 VIT
Ammo 4 VIT

Total loss = 35 VIT and 14 STR = 35*0.6 + 14*0.25 = +24.5 Base DMG in WS


The base for 6 hit is around 127 VIT in gear + stats
(i'll ignore fstr here since it's the same on both and mob vary so much it's not worth considering for this comparison)

127*0.6 = 76 Base DMG

120 + 76 = 196 Base DMG for 6 hit
196 + 25 = 221 Base DMG for 7 hit

221/196 = +12% Torclever DMG for 7 hit.

Therefore

If acc is a issue 7 hit > 6 hit by 3-6% DMG ((1/1.09)*1.12 = 1.03)
If acc isn't an issue 6 hit > 7 hit by 7-10% DMG ((1.20*(1/1.12 = 1.10)

Either way alot of this is rough (but easily accurate enough to prove this) and i gave +3% to 7 hit cause of Da and things which i didn't fully account for but to the point.

In cases outside VW and Abyssea 6 hit is the way to go unless you have acc issues.

Inside VW Save tp atma makes only 1 hit build suitible (5 Hit) for cala
Inside Abyssea it's not worth thinking about too much since theres more to consider b/cause of atmas and varied sititations.

Small edit :
w/ capped magic haste i can use Adaman body (3 Stp ) which allow me to use remove another 15 store tp for WS (inc body)

w/ Amada 5 Stp you could remove 29 store tp meaning almost no loss in WS DMG

Which also means in capped haste situation 6 Hit > 7 hit (if ya have adaman/Amada body)

---

if you really want an answer for this kind of Question here ill show you where to ask... http://www.bluegartr.com/index.php

WS delay also favors the 7hit, esp at capped haste.

What are the 2 gear sets you are comparing?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Taint2

What are the 2 gear sets you are comparing?

---

Also interested in the answer to this question.

Obviously he's only wearing Caladbolg if it takes 43 seconds to get TP.

http://www.ffxiah.com/item-sets/235603

is the tp set which gives +52 Store tp w/food

For the + VIT/STR difference i just worked out the best WS gear for the store tp slots
(if ya want me to put out an entire WS set i will when i get time )
To work out roughly what the difference in DMG is.

Either way the conculsion i found is ;
When accuracy is an issue it's prolly close enough not to care if ya have a 6/7 hit w/ varibles like WS delay, meditate and Absorb-tp ect ect ) but by no means 6 hit is behide like some would try to point out unless i missed something.

When accuracy isn't a issue 6 hit pretty much wins (unless i missed something pretty big)

When haste is capped and you have Adaman body 6 hit always wins.

Anyway i have 6 and a 7 hit so either way i'm ready until i get a apoc lol.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Rezeak

http://www.ffxiah.com/item-sets/235603

is the tp set which gives +52 Store tp w/food

For the + VIT/STR difference i just worked out the best WS gear for the store tp slots
(if ya want me to put out an entire WS set i will when i get time )
To work out roughly what the difference in DMG is.

Either way the conculsion i found is ;
When accuracy is an issue it's prolly close enough not to care if ya have a 6/7 hit w/ varibles like WS delay, meditate and Absorb-tp ect ect ) but by no means 6 hit is behide like some would try to point out unless i missed something.

When accuracy isn't a issue 6 hit pretty much wins (unless i missed something pretty big)

When haste is capped and you have Adaman body 6 hit always wins.

Anyway i have 6 and a 7 hit so either way i'm ready until i get a apoc lol.

---

Thats a 7hit.... 11x1.46= 16.06x5 = 80 so unless you are WSing in 81stp its a 7hit.

edit: thats with carbonara which is a big damage loss over RCB, it also requires you WS in 52stp which again wouldn't make sense.

I don't think you'll find a 6hit that makes sense for Cala and even when you get to capped haste WS delay,multihit rounds and human error will strongly favor a 7hit.

Probably forgot that FFXIAH adds 20 STP for Rose Strap.

The strongest 6hit I found outside full buffs + LR up was:

Caladbolg/Rose/---/Hagneia
Zelus/Houyi's/Bale/Brutal
Armada/Bale +2/Tyrant's/Rajas
Tactical/Goading/Calmecac/Ace's

and WSing in Rajas, Brutal, and Hagneia Stone. Those without a 6 STP Armadaberk will have to give up a little more; Aurum, 5 STP Adaberk + Attila's, or Askar Korazin + Attila's are basically your only gear options. I've yet to find a situation in which this beats an equally strong 7-hit. Food is an option but will not completely close the gap, especially if cRatio is not capped fulltime.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Nightfyre

Probably forgot that FFXIAH adds 20 STP for Rose Strap.

The strongest 6hit I found outside full buffs + LR up was:

Caladbolg/Rose/---/Hagneia
Zelus/Houyi's/Bale/Brutal
Armada/Bale +2/Tyrant's/Rajas
Tactical/Goading/Calmecac/Ace's

and WSing in Rajas, Brutal, and Hagneia Stone. Those without a 6 STP Armadaberk will have to give up a little more; Aurum, 5 STP Adaberk + Attila's, or Askar Korazin + Attila's are basically your only gear options. I've yet to find a situation in which this beats an equally strong 7-hit. Food is an option but will not completely close the gap, especially if cRatio is not capped fulltime.

---

Yeah a 7hit + swordstrap should completely own that set and allow flexibility where ever you need it.

Quote:

---

The strongest 6hit I found outside full buffs + LR up was:

Caladbolg/Rose/---/Hagneia
Zelus/Houyi's/Bale/Brutal
Armada/Bale +2/Tyrant's/Rajas
Tactical/Goading/Calmecac/Ace's

---

I am curious about your set Taint that "owns" his 6 hit. Could you quite possibly list the gear so I do a little figuring of my own. Thank you sir.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Chriscoffey

I am curious about your set Taint that "owns" his 6 hit. Could you quite possibly list the gear so I do a little figuring of my own. Thank you sir.

---

Set 1
http://www.ffxiah.com/item-sets/235057

Set 2
http://www.ffxiah.com/item-sets/235052
DA3 stp6 armada

One of Cala's/DRKs biggest flaws is the gear needed to cap haste lacks ACC.

I still get that 6hit is better when you have accuracy capped even w/ sword strap factored in.

Ofc sword strap has no effect when haste is capped as well so it's basically pole grip over rose there.

Unless I'm missing something, those are 8-hits. A 7-hit with Sword Strap would be something like Rajas/Brutal/Hagneia/Goading/Ace's, which is less flexible than a Pole Grip 7-hit and likely slightly behind it as well.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Rezeak

I still get that 6hit is better when you have accuracy capped even w/ sword strap factored in.

Ofc sword strap has no effect when haste is capped as well so it's basically pole grip over rose there.

---

Post all sets you're comparing.

EDIT: Ideal 7-hit is probably

Calad/Pole/---/Hagneia
Bale/Ganesha's/Bale/Brutal
Bale +2*/Bale +2/Strigoi/Rajas
Atheling/Goading/Calmecac/Ace's

*=Ace's is potentially slightly better, how you feel about the Subtle Blow -15 and inv-1 will probably have more of an impact on your decision than the <1% change in DPS.

Suggestions welcome, if I don't find any improvements I'll write out some math on this vs the 6-hit I posted vs Taint's set later.

EDIT2: Unless Taint corrects me on his sets, I'll also compare an optimized Sword Strap 8-hit. This should be a fairly easy set to optimize since you need very little STP... Possibly too easy, you only need 2 STP in your TP build so slots where you'd normally see STP (Rajas) may instead see marginal gains from something like Pyrosoul in a capped hitrate set since Brutal + Ace's would be your best option.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Nightfyre

Post all sets you're comparing.

EDIT: Ideal 7-hit is probably

Calad/Pole/---/Hagneia
Bale/Ganesha's/Bale/Brutal
Bale +2*/Bale +2/Strigoi/Rajas
Atheling/Goading/Calmecac/Ace's

*=Ace's is potentially slightly better, how you feel about the Subtle Blow -15 and inv-1 will probably have more of an impact on your decision than the <1% change in DPS.

Suggestions welcome, if I don't find any improvements I'll write out some math on this vs the 6-hit I posted vs Taint's set later.

EDIT2: Unless Taint corrects me on his sets, I'll also compare an optimized Sword Strap 8-hit. This should be a fairly easy set to optimize since you need very little STP... Possibly too easy, you only need 2 STP in your TP build so slots where you'd normally see STP (Rajas) may instead see marginal gains from something like Pyrosoul in a capped hitrate set since Brutal + Ace's would be your best option.

---

You know whats funny is I took rose, tyrants and Hag out of my sets and never put them back. They should be in there.

At capped haste a 6hit won't beat a 7hit. Pretty sure I already said it, but at 80% haste WS delay plays a bigger factor (adv. 7hit) and human error not WSs at exactly 100tp. (adv 7hit) DA/TA always favor a 7hit as well. As we've found out a simple change from Tactical > Atheling is enough to warrant the extra hit.


Edit: Just mathed it in the DPC calc.

Fodder mob (capped acc/att)

Inside Abyssea 7hit set 1 > 7hit set 2 > 6hit

Outside Capped 6hit > 7hit set 2 > 7hit set 1
Outside not capped (LRdown,no marches) 7hit set 2 > 6hit > 7 hit set 1

The stp6/da3 Armadaberk makes a big difference for the 6hit.

The second you aren't capped on Att or are under the haste cap the 7hit pulls ahead rapidly.

Good to know, thanks for the heads up.

Also I realize I keep talking in terms of "ideal" or very strong builds. This is because 6-hit Calad requires a lot of gear to even be feasible, and even then you lose a lot unless you have very strong gear for it. Since you have to go out of your way to get said gear, it makes sense to compare other sets that also use strong gear.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Taint2

You know whats funny is I took rose, tyrants and Hag out of my sets and never put them back. They should be in there.

At capped haste a 6hit won't beat a 7hit. Pretty sure I already said it, but at 80% haste WS delay plays a bigger factor (adv. 7hit) and human error not WSs at exactly 100tp. (adv 7hit) DA/TA always favor a 7hit as well. As we've found out a simple change from Tactical > Atheling is enough to warrant the extra hit.


Edit: Just mathed it in the DPC calc.

Fodder mob (capped acc/att)

Inside Abyssea 7hit set 1 > 7hit set 2 > 6hit

Outside Capped 6hit > 7hit set 2 > 7hit set 1
Outside not capped (LRdown,no marches) 7hit set 2 > 6hit > 7 hit set 1

The stp6/da3 Armadaberk makes a big difference for the 6hit.

The second you aren't capped on Att or are under the haste cap the 7hit pulls ahead rapidly.

---

Thanks. I like to see sets that actually can be compared rather than DO AS I SAY routine. I was wondering is it possible to get the stp 6 on a NQ Ebody or 5 is the highest that anyone has gotten?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Taint2

One of Cala's/DRKs biggest flaws is the gear needed to cap haste lacks ACC.

---

Oh god this. It's one of the few reasons I was happy to get a Mars's Ring so cheap

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Chriscoffey

Thanks. I like to see sets that actually can be compared rather than DO AS I SAY routine. I was wondering is it possible to get the stp 6 on a NQ Ebody or 5 is the highest that anyone has gotten?

---

5stp 2da is cap on NQ
6stp 3da is cap on HQ

Btw i don't use tactical mantle i use Carbonara + Atheling for that last 6 stp

Ofc Red curry pushes 7 hit higher which is why i use 7 hit w/ Red curry but in standand beat the crap out of mobs i use carbonara.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Rezeak

Btw i don't use tactical mantle i use Carbonara + Atheling for that last 6 stp

Ofc Red curry pushes 7 hit higher which is why i use 7 hit w/ Red curry but in standand beat the crap out of mobs i use carbonara.

---

On fodder thats probably not a big deal. Personally I'd 7hit with no food on craptastic mobs. And be ready with the same 7hit and RCB for mobs that matter. Personal preference on XP mobs though, cause it won't matter.