So after reading all these complaints about Click'N'Buy, I did a little online background check. Short version: will NOT be using Click'n'Buy, so... whats my alternative?
I went to the new square enix account page and selected option to add Crysta, asked for options "Clk'nBy" or "Ultimate" choose 2nd option.
Then it just let me use PayPal to add crysta thru the 2nd "Ultimate" option. Takes about 30 seconds if you already have a PayPal acct.
If you do not wish to use paypal for some reason, they let you pay direct with your credit card at that point also if you want.
For people who want to avoid a 3rd party agreement completely:
Use path: "Add Crysta" > "UltimatePay" > "PayPal" > "PayPal option 2"
The main drawback I see here is having to actually manually add Crysta every so often.
I am in US so not 100% sure if this will work for everyone.
I did not (will not) read through every post in the 1000 post thread of people complaining about clink'n'buy, so If this info is in there somewhere great~ I am just hoping to bring it to the foreground and maybe help someone from making the mistake of thinking they NEED to use Click'N'Buy, and then actually signing up for that additional service.
NON-Clk'N'Buy Alternative route
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08-08-2011, 01:55 AMWo1verineNON-Clk'N'Buy Alternative route
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08-08-2011, 02:10 AMJer
I bought the Ultimate Game card at a Drugstore (seems fitting lol) for $20. Actually, my first stop did not have it, so I had to make two stops. Once I got home entering the info was pretty straightforward, but this all seems like a pathetic way to treat customers who have been customers for YEARS.
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08-08-2011, 02:33 AMWo1verineYeah I am not going to debate that, it is annoying after all this time for sure.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jer
I play this game for leisure, have since Zilart was released, and when I saw that I had to actually spend some of my cherished free time doing something for FFXI other than playing it, I was put off.
Luckily for me I found the process very quick and painless. -
08-08-2011, 02:50 AMSelzakOn a better forum, you would be banned for this thread.Quote:
Originally Posted by Wo1verine
I don't think that there is one single person who was unaware of the information that you just posted. Problem is, Crysta can not be bought in exact amounts and leads to overpaying just like Click and Buy does. -
08-08-2011, 03:29 AMWo1verineIf only this were true.Quote:
Originally Posted by Selzak
I have seen countless complaints and yammering about this, both in game shouts and multiple posts on this forum. People DO actually make the mistake of getting a Click'N'Buy account, or other various 3rd party because they think it is the only option.
Simply trying to clarify that no 3rd party is necessary, just use your credit card.
For example if the 2nd poster on this thread had seen my OP, it would have saved him a 2 trips the drugstore, and taking time to signup for UltimatePay.
Maybe as we get closer to the end of the month this will change, but at the moment I am seeing more uniformed complaints than anything. (except trolling of course)
I made this thread to help people that are frustrated/confused over the new system, not for people who don't need help and just want to troll.
And ontop of it... you quote and BOLDED my disclaimer about that 1000 post thread of basically all trolls that no normal person would read though. Good Job! Way to miss the point completely!
I would be banned? Take it down a notch~ -
08-08-2011, 04:00 AMRAIST
They are upset because C&B is the ONLY way to straight pay with a credit card automatically each cycle. Crysta is a manual process, and requires you to shoot thorugh additional layers for payment as well.
Prior to this, everyone had an option to just enter information with SE and let SE handle it. Now they've injected more points of failure into the system. Before, if there were problems, it was SE billing system or the bank/CC issuer. Now, it is SE biling system, <insert 3rd party>, the bank/CC processor--if going the Crysta route, it can even inject an additional layer as well (SE billing, Crysta account, 3rd party, bank/CC processor).
The REAL issue with this is we were mislead into thinking we would still be able to pay directly with our CC's, which has been extended to ONLY the JP region while everyone else got the shaft. -
08-08-2011, 04:29 AMSelzakYou don't even need to do stuff like read threads or use the search function, just use common sense. Do you really think that, after weeks of uproar, people do not understand their options? They do know the options, and apparently better than you. Did you know that you can't buy Crysta in exact amounts and are therefore overpaying with the excess that you are forced to buy in order to reach (and surpass) the correct amount to pay for your account?Quote:
Originally Posted by Wo1verine
People are upset because they can either do that (if it's available to them), or go through the shady Click and Buy- which we are now beginning to see charges transaction fees as well.
Also, yes, on a well-moderated board people are banned for popping in and shitting threads without taking into consideration the conversation already going on. I'm sorry if I sound a bit harsh, but people have been chiming in with "enlightening" information like clockwork since the issue sprung up and it's gotten to be really aggravating because you read something like, "I figured out a solution!" and it's something that's been brought up and shot down for two weeks straight. In this case, it's just an exceptionally ridiculous piece of information. I mean, really? You can't even pay without knowing this.
Also, yes you do need to use a third party. In the case of Crysta, you also have to use fake currency.
I'm also curious about the "online background check" that you performed to find this information despite not wanting to read what people are actually already saying. Was it the payment information thread stickied at the top of the board, detective Wo1verine? -
08-08-2011, 04:45 AMWo1verineQuote:
Originally Posted by Selzak
Thanks Galka, let me clarify.
If you use the PayPal option they do not make you sign up for anything. As in, no 3rd party, no further steps needed.
Also its fairly easy find out through other web forums how bad of a reputation that particular Click'N'Buy people have.
Crysta sucks, wrong thread for that. Hate elsewhere please. -
08-08-2011, 04:50 AMRAIST
Paying through Paypal is using a third party. Doesn't matter if you are creating accounts with mulitple sites or not--it is still sending your account info to a third party that simply should NOT be required, as evidenced by them not forcing it upon the JP players.
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08-08-2011, 07:02 AMNiyariko
Basically what RAIST said, plus, not treating JP and NA/EU customers equally.
Japanese have the option to use Crysta and Direct Credit Card payment, NA/EU don't. Instead we are forced to use ClickandBuy if decided to use CC. We have been used to pay SE directly with CC for the past 8+ years, then suddenly they took it away except for the JP. At this point, I don't even wanna find out why SE decided to do this, just give us direct Credit Card payment back, please. :rolleyes: -
08-08-2011, 07:22 AMNeonii
I still can't get it to work so at this point I said later for it. All the error messages after following instructions to the T caused me to much stress, I have little patience with stuff that refuse to work. I keep reading forums in case something user friendly comes up but at this point its to much. When they make it easy for me to pay them I will until then It is what it is, i'll play something else.
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08-08-2011, 07:32 AMSelzakFirst of all, I apologize for being rude. I'm used to having to deal with Rosina, I think you've made an honest mistake here.Quote:
Originally Posted by Wo1verine
If you don't use Crysta, you have to use Click and Buy. Click and Buy is the only way to pay the exact amount of your subscription cost with actual currency. Click and Buy also appears to be charging a transaction fee.
If you don't use Click and Buy (and many people don't want to), you have to buy Crysta (which is what you're using Paypal, another third party, for). Crysta is bought in blocks, and you cannot purchase an exact amount of Crysta that correlates to the exact amount of money you owe for your subscription.
If you don't use Crysta (and many people don't want to), you have to go through Click and Buy. Ad infinitum~
So we've got a sort of Catch 22 here, hence why there's not really a solution and people have been complaining for weeks despite fully understanding the options. There's no confusion here, just poor options. -
08-08-2011, 08:24 AMNiyarikoI wanted to add...Quote:
Originally Posted by Selzak
And blocking out many other countries, making it impossible for some region to make payment to continue playing with their account which was working fine for the past 8+ years.
This is one of the crucial reason why some of us hate it so much comparing with the POL direct Credit Card payment. :mad: SE is putting a boundary on the internet! -
08-08-2011, 10:42 AMWo1verine
Its cool Selzack, I completely understand why everyone is so annoyed at this. Also to the other posters, I agree, its incredibly annoying to see such an upsidedown system following one that was, for the most part, working just fine. The whole "don't fix whats not broken" thing just never seems to hit home with SE.
This is why I made this thread:
I'm trying to show people a quick and easy, albeit temporary and somewhat annoying, solution to this. So they can stop fussing around and get back playing the game, if they want. Any person who previously paid with a credit card can go "click click click" through the paypal link and be done in less than 5 minutes, without adding any additional accounts or agreements to a 3rd party. I am seeing alot of people saying that they "are spending hours trying to give SE my money" when in fact there is a very fast and easy way be done.Quote:
Originally Posted by Neonii
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08-08-2011, 10:51 AMRAIST
If they do that though, then SE won't get the message. They will see that everyone aquiesced and migrated to the other system regardless of their disagreement with it.
Everyone who has been hit up by this, and has been coming to the forums already knows that Crysta is an option, but they have specific reasons for not using it.
If you are against it on principle, then you should resist the potentially more risky/costly alternatives they are trying to force you to use.
Money talks.... Bullsh!t walks. -
08-08-2011, 12:02 PMAlhanelem
Was another thread on this topic really necessary? Given the domination of the front page by clickandbuy or payment related topics, it's pretty clear where people stand, and SE has responded to say they hear us.
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08-08-2011, 12:35 PMWo1verineI debated this myself. However the other threads your talking about seem to me to be a giant collection of people's opinions, without and real solid information. I did read through the stuff, for the most part, and found if any good information was hidden in that monolith of a ragefest they have going, it was pretty well hard to find.Quote:
Originally Posted by Alhanelem
Also I did not find anywhere, including in the sticky's, a detailed path to pay w/o a 3rd party agreement.
I know we are all upset about this, but it was not my intention to create another rage thread. I simply am trying to bring this small piece of information to the foreground, where hopefully it will help a frustrated person out, and possibly save people some time.
Also Raist I think I understand you. What you are speaking and others are proposing sounds like a good old American style "walk-out" or "sit-in" protest. I love the fighting spirit I really do. However I dont personally believe that this is well accepted in every culture worldwide. In other words, they probably really dont care as much as we think they should. As for the racism comments, I have no real understanding of international finance, so I cannot even surmise an opinion about that. There is a "petition" thread for these complaints to be posted in, as I am very sure you are aware. -
08-08-2011, 12:37 PMRAIST
apparently you haven't read the threads then...everything in this thread has already been churned over and over again to infinity. Entire pages have been spent over crysta in several threads, as well a C&B and their issues.
The walk-through's SE put up for the transfer clearly show your options as well. You HAVE to make a choice--pay with C&B, or use Crysta. Can't get much clearer than that. -
08-08-2011, 12:47 PMAlhanelemThat's because there isn't one. That being said, I don't see the problem with this. Lots of companies (more than you think) use third party payment processors. I guess you could call them "fourth" parties, even, because technically Visa/Mastercard/etc are a third party as well. The only way to truly eliminate that would be to walk over to the company's offices and hand them cash.Quote:
Also I did not find anywhere, including in the sticky's, a detailed path to pay w/o a 3rd party agreement.
What is it with people and "third parites"? I mean, in many cases it's unnecessary; but really- Unless you have some personal bone to pick with Paypal or Clickandbuy or Playspan (which is now owned by Visa, by the way), I really don't see the big deal. As long as it doesn't mean more costs to you (In most cases it doesn't, though there are some people caught in the middle that can't find a way to pay without incurring some kind of fee), how is that third party hurting or affecting you in any way?
//Paid for Crysta with paypal, Crysta appear on account within a minute, Crysta successfully pays FFXI fee. Where's the problem? Paypal certainly didn't screw me, nor did Playspan. -
08-08-2011, 12:53 PMRAIST
the issue is simple... 1/3 regions has not been forced into it with no justification for doing so. The only answer from SE was the bogus claim it was for improved security--which has already been discredited. Fire walls and encryption provide the same protection for their JP players as it does for everyone else.
Also, injecting a third party into the mix creates another point of failure which makes things more prone to billing errors and complicates things further when there are issues. Cases in point, the past history of overbillings and locked accounts with Warhammer, Blizzard, and iTunes. Communication breakdowns between the multiple parties created errors that might well have been avoided if a more direct path for processing were used. -
08-08-2011, 01:01 PMWo1verineWell actually, as stated in my OP, there is. "Technically" you are using a 3rd party, but no need to actually sign up for PayPal. This is the giant misconception that I am trying to smash.Quote:
Originally Posted by Alhanelem
If you use the PayPal link, they give ALL consumers with a CC the option to pay w/o any agreement whatsoever, instantly. Also they will not store or save your personal information in any way if you choose this route. -
08-08-2011, 01:08 PMRAIST
It is still sluffing you off to a third party either way, as it is not kept within SE's domain.
Even though they are not going to use them for POL billing, SE is still maintianing the CC Processing agreements for each of the 3 main regions (NA, EU, JP) for use with their merchandise sites. Technically, they can process all the subscription payments and Crysta purchases in house if they wanted to.
Unfortunately, they have now only agreed to handle JP subscription payments inhouse, and are forcing everyone else off to third parties for processing subscription payments.
THAT is the issue people have with this. SE has already shown they are capable of maintaining the processing method as they have in the past in ADDITION to the new options, but have chosen only to do so for the JP region. -
08-08-2011, 04:15 PMRizon
In reading these and other post I realize that a large number of people where unaware of the fact that SE has always used a third party ro handle billing outside of Japan. They admitted this when they explained their July billing fiasco. They used companies that were versed in the billing regulations for that particular reagon. The big difference that I see between the new and the old system is that SE decided that they only wanted to deal with 1 company worldwide. As they had already installed C&B as the billing company for FFXIV I must assume that they decided for uniformity sake to use them for FFXI. It was obvious last Sept that they had not done a proper research into C&B and because FFXIV has been free to play from the beginning they still have not. If they had used someone else and kept it quiet we may not have noticed the difference.
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08-08-2011, 04:43 PMNiyarikoThe Auto-Translate function in game is to promote multi-region game play, so charging credit card directly from many different countries are accounted for when making the game and any additional fees for charging different countries' credit cards are within the running cost of the game. If they don't want to accept CC outside of Japan, do not make global-region servers/MMO and bunching up every countries together in one community!Quote:
Originally Posted by Rizon
So SE should not have any excuse about the extra spending on charging credit cards outside of Japan, it is part of the business spendings in running a multi-region MMORPG. -
08-08-2011, 11:12 PMRAIST
The other party you are mentioning was likely their CC processor, not a money trader like C&B (unless they went through some sort of invoicing firm maybe, which would be kind of senseless since they likely have their own internal accunting/billing department(s)). Any regular retail/online business accepting credit cards for payment of goods/services has to use a clearing house to process their credit cards (unless, of course that company is a processor themself, which C&B is not). This is done via a secure connection between the point of sale and that processor. It would be the same whether it's a store at the mall or SE's POL system.
What you are doing now is passing off your CC information to a third party (C&B) who is then running it through a clearing house they use. That is why it referenced a Square Enix regional office before and is now referencing C&B LTD if you go through C&B. Before, it was a request orginating through SE's regional divisions and now it is a request orginating from C&B. -
08-09-2011, 06:33 AMNeika
Can anyone tell me if Canadians have access to the crysta/paypal option. I know the stores in my area don't sell the game cards, and a friend of mine who is also in Canada told me when they transfered their accounts over, the crysta/paypal option didn't show up, only CC payment through C&B. I haven't tried to transfer my accounts over cause I'm hoping SE will bring back direct payments, but crysta was really the only option I thought I had available since my bank advised me not to use C&B. So if any other Canadians have transfered over and was able to use the crysta option, I would like to know :)
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08-09-2011, 06:47 AMNiyarikoI have created my CnB account long ago when 14 first came out, I'm using...Quote:
Originally Posted by Neika
- Canadian (TD Canada Trust.) Visa CreditCard with 3DS, verified by CnB
- NA copy of FFXI (bought in EB games in Ottawa)
- NA SE account
Yet, I get an Origin Error when trying to log in CnB within SEAM (when I was setting up my FF14 payment). :confused: I have yet to transfer my FFXI account to SEAM, not going to do it.
To answer you question, Canadian have both Crysta and CnB available to them, just like the US.
Don't transfer your account, you will regret it. -
08-09-2011, 08:10 AMNeikaYa I'm taking a wait and see approach...I really don't like the idea of handing out my CC info to some third party just to keep playing a game, but I was rather shocked when my friend said the crysta option didn't show for them. Thanks for the info :DQuote:
Originally Posted by Niyariko
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08-09-2011, 10:44 PMWo1verine
Here is another reason I started this thread:
http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/th...from-Click-Buy
As more and more people realize they need to make this switch soon if they dont want to be deactivated, we are going to see alot of this. I encourage anyone with any question to post. Also any person with good tips on how to avoid these kinds of problems please post for the benefit of new people coming to the board for information.
I have no political agenda here, I do not support and am not against these changes. Simply trying to show people this nice little shortcut, if they want to continue to play without a third party agreement. -
08-09-2011, 10:52 PMWo1verineHave your friend make sure that the POL ID is both now "linked" to the new square enix ID account, and also "transferred" to the new square enix ID account.Quote:
Originally Posted by Neika
The "Add Crysta" button should appear in the list of graphic buttons on the left hand side of your square enix ID account page.
From there follow the path "UtimatePay" > "PayPal" > "PayPal Option 2" to avoid a third party agreement. -
08-09-2011, 10:56 PMIamcanadiani have switched my canadian account over and i can use paypal just fine for cc payments to add crrystaQuote:
Originally Posted by Neika
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08-09-2011, 11:34 PMScorpiusMaximus
I have read a couple of pages of this post, but not all, sorry about that but it's 00:30 am and i need some sleep....lol
I have a Q.
I am an Australian player and am unsure of my options here. I (foolishly) signed up for a C&B acc because, like most here, thought it was my only option. On my SE account the only option i have is for C(rap) & B(ait).... and it only mentions "about Crysta".
Can someone help me and the rest of us Aussies out please. Kinda blows living here at times like this... -
08-10-2011, 12:35 AMNeika
They did. All their characters are transfered over. Only option they said they got was C&B. Just had me really freaked out for a min. thinking that the only option we would have here is C&B, since I've heard some countries don't support crysta. Maybe it's because that's the option they had set up for FFXIV already.