New 2-hour Abilities

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Originally Posted by Kari

Are the devs really ignoring us this hard, that this is making it to testing?
This job ability is WORTHLESS.
It would still be worthless on a 1 minute timer.
It would still be worthless if it DIDN'T kill your pet.

There is no BST anywhere that cares for a heal + stoneskin at ANY POINT when they have a PET.
BST needs an entirely different 2 hour, as well as DNC.

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Just so you know, the JP forum thinks it should be revised as well so hopefully something will happen with all regions against it .

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Originally Posted by Ophannus

Are you trolling? The DRK 2hr is probably the best of the new 2hrs and is potentially one of the stongest 2hrs in the game in terms of how it increases your damage and how it inhibits the enemy. Testing shows it drains 30-50 TP per hit which means now only are you gonna be WSing a lot more, but the mob's TP moves will be completely inhibited. Throw on Tactician's Roll/Adoloquiem/Embrava and this new 2hr and you're gonna basically be spamming weapon skills. Now imagine 5 DRKs in an alliance using this move during perfect defense embrava. Normally during perfect defense the mob only had TP moves to really hurt an alliance, now the alliance will be impervious for those 30 seconds while the DRK's plunders all the TP the mob has been getting from being hit by zerging DDs. Now compare that to the DRG 2hr which just enhances the wyvern and heals it to full(Spirit Link heals 90% of its HP) and it gives stronger breaths(breaths that were resisted like nuts for 10-90 damage will do 200ish for 60 seconds..whooo and healing breaths heal a bit more which is moot outside of solo or failwhms.)

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People said the same sh*t when drks was SE, BW, Krakken Clubbing AV into the grave, until that was nerfed. The moment this 2hr hit some resistance it was it will start to suck hard. Drk 2hrs are too short 30secs in not enough time for a high delay weapon like a scythe. You need 2-3 scythe swings just to get a ws, and how much time does that take??? Sam original 2hr (Meikyo Shisui) is better than this crap, you dont have to swing your great katana at all to get your ws's. Absorb tp spell do not stop mobs from doing wss, even when you use the regular old absorb-tp spell on fodder mobs they still use tp moves at low health. Sam's (meikyo Shisui) is better than this and its not even close

A Proposed Fix
Double the duration of drk's new 2hr, and remove the HP penalty for souleater.

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Originally Posted by Okipuit

(We understand the feedback about the enmity cap, but we would like to look into and address this separately from the 2-hour abilities.)

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Is it safe to read far too much into this now?

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Originally Posted by Okipuit

Greetings!

During this week’s Test Server update we will be making the below changes and additions to the new 2-hour abilities.

New 2-hours will be added to the below jobs:[list]

Bard/Samurai/Blue Mage/Corsair/Scholar

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Are you kidding me? Jeastmasters's 2hour JA has gotten way more negative feedback than all jobs combined! Is willy wanka in charge there hello! This JA will never met the par of a 2 hour, just merge it with Wild Run and start over!

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Originally Posted by Demon6324236

I'm sorry Oki but you need to tell the devs this is a bad idea. They can not move forward with any enmity based abilities without first establishing that enmity in itself is worth paying attention to. As of right now as you said you have feedback about the enmity cap, I would suggest that be focused on rather than making abilities based around enmity itself because so long as more things are made for enmity its just more things that will need to be changed and tweaked again in the future if enmity itself is fixed.

If this ability is released before changes to enmity I fear the ability will be pointless until such a change is made, at which point the ability may function under a new law of order and not work properly or in a balanced nature. So while I am happy to hear you have heard the feedback players have given on the subject of enmity, I regret to say the 2-hour should probably be held back a bit until this issue is resolved, or it could have problems following the update that fixes enmity.

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are you saying that fixing enmity outside of under 2H is a bad idea or are you saying that every job update should be delayed after enmity is fixed?( = 0job update for next few month)

them working on fixing it is good news no matter when we get it.

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Originally Posted by hiko

are you saying that fixing enmity outside of under 2H is a bad idea or are you saying that every job update should be delayed after enmity is fixed?( = 0job update for next few month)

them working on fixing it is good news no matter when we get it.

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Neither. He is saying that it is pointless (and counter productive) to introduce a job ability that focuses on enmity when the enmity system needs work. If the devs are aware that the enmity cap needs to be addressed, then why add enmity based 2hr abilities for multiple jobs? They will be ignored by the player base and will end up being adjusted after the enmity system changes anyway.

This is obviously a large undertaking and I hope it is toward the top of the list of priorities. I think adding the element of enmity management/manipulation to the flow of battle would really spice up combat and give some jobs a new role to play. Obviously they don't want to make it so that DD's and BLM's can go crazy while the mob always stays locked on the Paladin, so they will have to tread carefully.

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People said the same sh*t when drks was SE, BW, Krakken Clubbing AV into the grave, until that was nerfed. The moment this 2hr hit some resistance it was it will start to suck hard. Drk 2hrs are too short 30secs in not enough time for a high delay weapon like a scythe. You need 2-3 scythe swings just to get a ws, and how much time does that take??? Sam original 2hr (Meikyo Shisui) is better than this crap, you dont have to swing your great katana at all to get your ws's. Absorb tp spell do not stop mobs from doing wss, even when you use the regular old absorb-tp spell on fodder mobs they still use tp moves at low health. Sam's (meikyo Shisui) is better than this and its not even close

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Wrong. This 2hr hasn't shown to get resisted. Also it drains all the mob's TP with a cap of 55ish so in a few hits the mob is TPless. Absorb TP only takes 50% of the mob's current TP and subject to magic resistances so thats why mobs can TP at low HP, it'll never take more than 50% of its current TP.

Also if you're using Last Resort, have embrava and using a greatsword like you should(LOLSCYTHE) you're hitting a great deal in 30 seconds.

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Originally Posted by Sasaraixx

Neither. He is saying that it is pointless (and counter productive) to introduce a job ability that focuses on enmity when the enmity system needs work. If the devs are aware that the enmity cap needs to be addressed, then why add enmity based 2hr abilities for multiple jobs? They will be ignored by the player base and will end up being adjusted after the enmity system changes anyway.

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Exactly. Basically if they release the new 2-hour for PLD now it will have little to no use. Even if they fix enmity, the ability will likely need adjusted to work properly, which will take even more time. Thats not to mention other jobs like THF which get enmity based 2-hours as well, making even more abilities just worthless. Releasing them now would be nice but some either need reworked to not rely on enmity or they are just adding abilities that will likely have next to no use for months until they do fix enmity, and fix the 2-hours afterwords.

Wait a minute. If BRD is getting a new-new 2-hour, can RDM have BRD's old-new 2-hour? It's certainly better than what we have applied at the moment.

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Originally Posted by Tamarsamar

Wait a minute. If BRD is getting a new-new 2-hour, can RDM have BRD's old-new 2-hour? It's certainly better than what we have applied at the moment.

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I think you guys are largely confused.
There is no new-new 2 hour, those jobs didn't have their new 2 hours on the test server previously. Only a select few 2 hours are being added to the test server at a time.
All they're doing is adding those abilities you saw before for testing.

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Originally Posted by Demon6324236

I'm sorry Oki but you need to tell the devs this is a bad idea. They can not move forward with any enmity based abilities without first establishing that enmity in itself is worth paying attention to. As of right now as you said you have feedback about the enmity cap, I would suggest that be focused on rather than making abilities based around enmity itself because so long as more things are made for enmity its just more things that will need to be changed and tweaked again in the future if enmity itself is fixed.

If this ability is released before changes to enmity I fear the ability will be pointless until such a change is made, at which point the ability may function under a new law of order and not work properly or in a balanced nature. So while I am happy to hear you have heard the feedback players have given on the subject of enmity, I regret to say the 2-hour should probably be held back a bit until this issue is resolved, or it could have problems following the update that fixes enmity.

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I forgot to say, I am not saying that adding Enmity to the new 2-hour is bad. I am saying treating them as separate problems is bad. I would like to see the enmity added to it still, but please treat them as the same problem at the same time, otherwise even if the Enmity is added it will not matter much if at all.

This saying comes to mind:

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If you don't have time to do it right the first time, how are you going to find the time to do it twice?

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Basically they can either:

fix enmity > add new abilities
or
add new abilities > fix enmity > fix abilities

I think some prioritizing is desperately needed. Changing the abilities once people have gotten used to them can piss a lot of people off, if done wrong. Not only that, but doing the 2hrs before the larger enmity fix creates more work on the back end. To be honest, most of the enmity based 2hrs suck and should be changed to 5 - 15 minute recast J/A to make room for an ability deserving of a 2hr recast.

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Originally Posted by Ophannus

Wrong. This 2hr hasn't shown to get resisted. Also it drains all the mob's TP with a cap of 55ish so in a few hits the mob is TPless. Absorb TP only takes 50% of the mob's current TP and subject to magic resistances so thats why mobs can TP at low HP, it'll never take more than 50% of its current TP.

Also if you're using Last Resort, have embrava and using a greatsword like you should(LOLSCYTHE) you're hitting a great deal in 30 seconds.

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This 2hr is not that good especially when you compare it to sam's 2hr, you only get 30-50 tp per hit and with that being said it takes 2-3 attack round to get a ws. Moreover if the mob have no tp the 2hr is basically a glorified subtle blow. I heard alot of people talking about how this is a great Zerg 2hr, which is not true if the mob has no more tp there is no more zerg. Sam old 2hr greatly out zerg drk's 2hr, and I dont even want to talk about the hate spike. Blood Weapon is better adleast you can rock SE for free, and it adds more HP absorption which allows you to recover more quickly from those SE Ws's. Moreover, why should drks have to rely on another job's 2hr (embrava) to make our 2hr any good? Increase the duration please! Sam old 2hr > Drk new 2hr

I realize I'm a few dayslate to the party, but;

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Originally Posted by Camate

[*]Beastmaster
We will be keeping the HP recovery and status ailment recovery as is, but we will be changing the reraise effect to a stoneskin effect. The strength of the stoneskin effect will vary depending on the pet. The idea is that Familiar will increase the pet’s offensive capabilities, while the new 2-hour ability will enhance the master’s defensive capability.

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For a bst, who's pet is their primary line of defense, I don't really understand how "killing your pet" is a logical defensive ability, no matter how much damage that stoneskin absorbs.

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Originally Posted by Camate

[*]Puppetmaster
The same enmity properties for the player version of Invincible and Benediction will be added.
(In cases where the head’s respective 2-hour ability will not work due to the combination of head and frame, such as a sharpshot head with a frame other than a sharpshot frame or a stormwaker head with a valoredge frame, we will be making it so Mighty Strikes is used.)

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That doesn't fix the issue with mighty strikes not being worthwhile, it just spreads it around. I don't have any issue with the enmity if you insist on keeping those two, but honestly, well, see my next response.

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Originally Posted by Camate

Finally, I have one request when submitting feedback. We have been seeing comments stating that “we don’t want this” and “totally remake it.” Your feedback is something we wish to utilize in our efforts to make the game better, so instead please try to be as specific as you can with how you’d like it aspects to change.

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I can only speak for the jobs I regularly play, so I'm not going to suggest new ideas for every job, but the ones I play, I can. Also, please keep in mind that at this point in time, 2hours are really only worth using against NMs. Giving us an awesome 2hour that only works against regular mobs defeats the purpose of the ability, because by level 99, we no longer have any need for 2hours against regular EXP fodder.

WAR: Consider what war already has, and what this ability has to compete with. War is a heavy DD with very little in terms of innate defensive ability (defender is laughable). Mighty Strikes is a very powerful offensive buff. It's understandable that creating an equal offensive buff is not really easy. I admit, I can't really think of another ability to replace war's current new 2hour with; at least not one that another job doesn't already have (seriously, rehashing job abilities doesn't give us "new" abilities). The only effect that could compete with mighty strikes would be "Greatly increases the rate of double attacks" but given the weapons warrior uses, that could very easily be overpowered.

Perhaps, rather than a directly offensive, or directly defensive ability, you could give use something like a super-sized Break WS (ie: greataxe's shield/armor/weapon/full break); but rather than low damage and simple stat debuffs, it would basically be like enhanced Eagle Eye Shot for warrior. By this I mean, it would be one, big hit (about the same damage as a decent ws, like raging rush if using a gaxe), instant use JA (and no missing, please, a 2hour that can miss is functionally stupid) that would inflict a short duration, potent, by which I mean that it can land on anything, no matter how brokenly powerful the NM is otherwise, amnesia effect. Essentially, a real weapon breaking ability; hit the enemy so hard that it jars them and prevents them from using TP moves for 15~30 seconds. Of course, to be properly balanced, it could be set so that it only works once per fight, after which the enemy would resist the amnesia effect, so that it can't be used to lock monsters and take the challenge out of the fight. This would essentially force the war to choose between their own damage, or everyone's survival.

Of course, you could always give this ability to one of the less desired jobs, instead, to at least give them something to be more desired for.

MNK: The problem here lies mostly in how counters work. This ability, while nice on paper, only really defends from melee attacks. Lately, anything this would be worth using against only poses a threat through it's constant spam of TP attacks and Ga/Ja spells. The only NMs where this ability would really be worthwhile are those that use hundred fists, any other time, the monk using hundred fists themselves is going to be more useful. Honestly, I like this ability on paper, but I know that it won't be worth using in practice, because it won't have any relation to TP moves. Perhaps simply adjusting it, so that while the ability is active, each successful counter reduces the enemy's TP rather than increasing it, or giving it some way to at least partially negate enemy TP moves, such as reducing their damage by some amount and having counter proc when hit by a damaging TP move. Not really sure.

PUP (And a little love for bst): This is the big one for me. If you translate nothing else from my post, because I realize I have a tendency to write novels, translate this portion. Puppetmaster, though a pet job, is a job that favors the PLAYER, not the PET. BST is the reverse of pup, favoring the pet over the player. Giving BST an ability that favors the master, and pup a second ability that favors the pet, is completely backwards. BSTs want a new 2hour that does something for their pet. PUPs want a new 2hour that does something for the player.

Pup already has to deal with having an absolutely terrible 2hour (I could go in to great detail with just how many things are wrong with overdrive, but this is not the thread for it). It's cute that the devs want to give us this little copycat 2hour gimmick, but after testing them to find that, point for point, 4 of them were functionally weakened versions of the 2hour they were supposed to be.
Manafont gives us nothing because we never run out of mp anyway.
Chainspell is heavily hindered by the 4 second global recast, and also costs our puppet's ability to not cast the same failed spell over and over.
Eagle Eye Shot's damage formula was flat out reduced (changing it is understandable, to account for the difference in pet and player ranged attacks, but the amount it was reduced is just silly).
Mighty Strikes cannot be used by the only puppet with any real ability to melee, without noticeably hindering that puppet's ability to function and the damage it deals.
Invincible was entirely unnecessary for valoredge, because of all the puppet's, it's the only one that doesn't have significant problems staying alive against most things, and it's really not even that good of a tank.
Benediction, while nice, is also limited by how rare it is we actually have need to use soulsoother in a party situation.

Instead of 6 cloned 2hours given to a pet at reduced effect, pup's new 2hour should openly benefit the player. I've already lined out one idea, I think in this thread, though it may be elsewhere, that would essentially be similar to a spiritsurge effect; sacrificing the pet to buff the master based on the maneuvers they had active or the puppet they were using. Using that as a basis, I came up with this idea:

An ability that augments maneuver effects, and either allows the pup to temporarily use maneuvers without their pet (and consumes the puppet inthe process) or temporarily grants the puppet immunity to damage while also revoking their ability to be deployed (and thus, do anything at all, other than stand there). The augmented maneuvers would give the pup either an Aura effect, a Sphere effect, or both, depending on how that all works, but basically, each maneuver would buff the party members near by in some way, with the potency depending on the number of maneuvers active
- Fire Maneuvers: Regain and/or a Sizeable chunk of attack bonus that stacks with others
- Thunder Maneuvers: Crit Hit Rate and/or Damage, or Double/Triple attack rate
- Wind Maneuvers: Job Ability Haste (It would -have- to be JA haste. Gear haste and Magic haste would completely defeat the benefit, because they're already easily gained from multiple other sources)
- Earth Maneuvers: Physical Damage Taken -
- Water Maneuvers: Magical Damage Taken -
- Ice Maneuvers: Either MAB, Fast Cast, or some other magically inclined effect
- Light Maneuvers: Regen
- Dark Maneuvers: Refresh or outright MP cost reduction (NOT conserve MP)

Ideally, these effects would impact the master as well, but even if they didn't, they (primarily the fire/thunder/wind effects, earth/water/light to a lesser extent) allow pup to negate the rather significant amount it trails in terms of damage output relative to other heavy DD jobs in endgame events simply by the nature of increasing everyone's damage. The buffs would have to be strong enough to negate the loss in damage of using an effectively pet-less pup in place of a different melee job, but that's really not too difficult to do.

I would offer a suggestion: Enhance the new BLU 2hr.

It's literally worthless. None of the Unbridled Learning spells are powerful enough to warrant multiple casts, nor are they worth chaining together. Several reasons:

1) They aren't powerful enough to call for it. This ability does not alleviate the issue at all as it does not enhance or augment Unbridled Learning spells in any way whatsoever.

2) The new 2hr does not cut the MP cost of the spells, thus you'd run out of MP incredibly quickly

3) The new 2hr does not cut the recast times of the spells, thus you wouldn't be able to cast the same spell more than twice.


So effectively, we've gotten a 60 second duration ability that we can use every 2 hours to cast 1 or 2 spells that leave minimal impact on myself, my party, and the monster instead of using Azure Lore to enhance the power of my other spells that don't suck. Great, thanks.

To precede my complaining with some positivity, the adjusted Paladin ability is going to be solid in the few places it will ever be used. All signs point to it doing a ton of damage...as far as Paladin job abilities go.

The new Bard two-hour is actually stronger than I expected. I can't imagine when it will ever be used rather than Soul Voice, but if it ever is, no one will be disappointed!

I feel like I just gave a bottle-cap medal to the tallest midget at the state fair.

Now, moving onto some real pessimism and bitterness!

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Originally Posted by Prothscar

I would offer a suggestion: Enhance the new BLU 2hr.

It's literally worthless. None of the Unbridled Learning spells are powerful enough to warrant multiple casts, nor are they worth chaining together. Several reasons:

1) They aren't powerful enough to call for it. This ability does not alleviate the issue at all as it does not enhance or augment Unbridled Learning spells in any way whatsoever.

2) The new 2hr does not cut the MP cost of the spells, thus you'd run out of MP incredibly quickly

3) The new 2hr does not cut the recast times of the spells, thus you wouldn't be able to cast the same spell more than twice.


So effectively, we've gotten a 60 second duration ability that we can use every 2 hours to cast 1 or 2 spells that leave minimal impact on myself, my party, and the monster instead of using Azure Lore to enhance the power of my other spells that don't suck. Great, thanks.

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This. I want to reiterate all of this.

Also, the stuff under Unbridled Learning is just too niche to want to use it all at once.

I don't want to raise my own defense using Harden Shell while I lower a monster's INT with Gates of Hades. I don't need the Defense Down from Bilgestorm if I can cast a working Tourbillion directly after. I don't want or need to use Absolute Terror if I just used Thunderbolt, because Absolute Terror is single target and doesn't work on Notorious Monsters!

The real life analogue of this magical ability would be a magic ability that let a me simultaneously park my car in a tree, learn what Lady Gaga's favorite date ever would be, refill my cat's food dish, trigger a gas leak somewhere in New Jersey, perfectly cook an order of French Fries, learn what Anthony Bourdain's favorite date ever would be, dump four gallons of boiling oil on a random person somewhere in Arkansas, and change into my cleanest and most visually appealing pair of underpants.

In case it isn't clear, I'm saying that the effects of various Unbridled Learning spells are situational at best and even the good ones very rarely work together.

It would help the new Two-Hour and Unbridled Learning in general to add a few spells simply meant to deal damage to Unbridled Learning. Having something unique to fill the dead air between two, at most, niche spells that work well together in a given situation would go a long way towards making me ever use this new Two-Hour.

If changes should be specific to the Two-Hour itself, anything and everything that makes the Unbridled Learning spells better in a general sense while the Two-Hour is active would help. The spells are all over the board, so damage boosts or recast reductions or MP cost reductions or duration boosts or even accuracy/magic accuracy boosts would help.

Honestly, the real challenge at this point would be making it worse.

Some brief feed-back on a few other new two-hour abilities, separated from the other post because it was long and meant to be about one thing in detail:

The new Red Mage two-hour is good on a conceptual level, but it falls short in execution. It functions similar to Soul Voice, and it seems meant to accomplish something similar to Soul Voice or Embrava, so it should be similar to those abilities in terms of power and duration.

The new Dragoon two-hour would be a lot more impressive if it could bypass the innate Breath Damage Taken -% that every Notorious Monster added recently seems to have. I don't know if this would make the ability good, but I know it would become a lot better.

A 2 hour ability that consumes your pet on a job that relies on having a pet is silly.

Why couldn't new BST 2hour be something like: Your pet will use a 2 hour ability based on pet's job (WAR uses Mighty Strikes, THF uses Perfect Dodge, MNK uses Hundred Fists, PLD uses Invincible)

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Originally Posted by Keinn

A 2 hour ability that consumes your pet on a job that relies on having a pet is silly.

Why couldn't new BST 2hour be something like: Your pet will use a 2 hour ability based on pet's job (WAR uses Mighty Strikes, THF uses Perfect Dodge, MNK uses Hundred Fists, PLD uses Invincible)

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"Why didn't BST get PUP's 2-hour!?" Not that I disagree, just what it sounded like.

The "!?" aside, pretty much. :3

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Originally Posted by Demon6324236

"Why didn't BST get PUP's 2-hour!?" Not that I disagree, just what it sounded like.

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Yeah, I asked for that on page 2.

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Originally Posted by SpankWustler

Also, the stuff under Unbridled Learning is just too niche to want to use it all at once.

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An idea for the Blue Mage 2hour if it hasn't been said already... let Blue Mage use ALL of their spells during the duration, not just the ones set and the Unbridled Learning abilities. This would instantly make it more useful without having to wait for new Unbridled Learning spells in the future to get to use.

Maybe this wouldn't be right, but I think it should be considered as an option.

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Originally Posted by Economizer

An idea for the Blue Mage 2hour if it hasn't been said already... let Blue Mage use ALL of their spells during the duration, not just the ones set and the Unbridled Learning abilities. This would instantly make it more useful without having to wait for new Unbridled Learning spells in the future to get to use.

Maybe this wouldn't be right, but I think it should be considered as an option.

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I would agree, SE showed themselves to be real lazy with the construction of these new 2hrs. Wasn't the purpose of the new 2hrs to make up for the lack of power and usefulness of the old 2hrs. Didn't the SE player base come to a consensus that the game has passed the old 2hrs by, thf cant PD ranged atts, pld invincible useless against magic, Drk BW ineffective against all undead, pup 2hr is just sad, blm manafront shouldn't even be a 2hr. These 2hrs was suppose to be replaced, because the old 2hrs were outdated. The new 2hrs are all basically disappointing, lackluster and void of any creativity. Only a select few is good..

SE you can't let these new 2hrs go live they are embarrassing, add some more creativity and usefulness to these 2hr built and based on the thematic of the given job.

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Originally Posted by Cljader1

Didn't the SE player base come to a consensus that the game has passed the old 2hrs by

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I thought SE wanted more options for players. Many of the old 2hours are quite good actually. Perfect Dodge allows a Thief to pull melee mobs in for a group without getting hurt (and pulling ranged attackers isn't really possible, even if this issue should be fixed). Invincible grabs hate and allows a Paladin to take extreme melee damage without nary a scratch. Dark Knight's 2hour allows them to use Souleatter the way it was meant to be used, and the majority of the time their 2hour is lacking is from nerfs to Souleatter rather then problems with undead. Manafont eliminates the chance for a Black Mage to have their spells interrupted by melee strikes, which is incredibly useful.

Obviously not every current 2hour is good, but many are (even ones that could use a fix or two are for the most part OK), which is part of the problem with releasing new ones, especially if they're not so hot - they have to compare to the good ones. And for bad 2hours replacing bad 2hours, it leaves the job without a good 2hour in general.

Astral Flow is incredibly good, and the new 2hour option Summoner will get is incredibly good (from what I've seen so far anyways). I think that Summoner's 2hours should be a model for what the rest should be with options.

Many of the old 2hours could use some work too, but saying they're all bad isn't exactly the truth. Not all of the new 2hours are bad either, which is why when one isn't up to par it stands out.

Most of the old 2hrs are better than the new ones, from reading these job forums there are a considerable amount of people dissatisfy with there job's 2hr.

Good morning!

We just wanted to give a brief update regarding monk’s new 2-hour ability and apologies that it is taking a bit to implement it onto the Test Server.
We are currently making adjustments for how AoE damage will be handled while this new ability is active. We performed various tests to see if we could make it possible to counter AoE attacks, but there were some difficulties with log recognition, so we decided to look into an alternative effect. Our objective is to implement this with the next Test Server update and we are working very hard so everyone can try it out!

Good morning!

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Originally Posted by Okipuit

We are currently making adjustments for how AoE damage will be handled while this new ability is active. We performed various tests to see if we could make it possible to counter AoE attacks, but there were some difficulties with log recognition, so we decided to look into an alternative effect. Our objective is to implement this with the next Test Server update and we are working very hard so everyone can try it out!

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Just put the guy who did most of the work on Voidwatch in charge of it, and it'll be done within a day. He has more experience with AoE's and logs than anyone in the universe.

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Ow! Stop hitting me! The joke wasn't that bad!

^Best response.

Also, discussion is about how bad these 2 hours are, rep posts about 2 hour that nobody cares about. AWW YEAH.

If you're the one who designed the game, how is it possible to not be able to implement something based on your design? I could care less about the 2-hour; it just makes me wonder what other job abilities/spells/etc. suffer because the dev team is unable to program certain features.

I honestly have been feeling that a lot of things were tossed in for the heck of it/vague reasoning instead of any consideration of actual gameplay with these 2 hours. Especially with these additional/bonus effects.

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Originally Posted by Okipuit

Good morning!

We just wanted to give a brief update regarding monk’s new 2-hour ability and apologies that it is taking a bit to implement it onto the Test Server.
We are currently making adjustments for how AoE damage will be handled while this new ability is active. We performed various tests to see if we could make it possible to counter AoE attacks, but there were some difficulties with log recognition, so we decided to look into an alternative effect. Our objective is to implement this with the next Test Server update and we are working very hard so everyone can try it out!

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Question to clarify: Do you mean a new effect in response to AoE attacks, or a completely new effect for the two hour. Given precedence, I'm assuming the former, because my gut tells me that getting any of these abilities scrapped and a completely different effect granted is unlikely at this point.

100% counter rate is not a bad 2 hour anyway and doesn't need scrapping... well, it's situationally good anyway, like when fighting a mob that's going to hundred fists you^^

I'm just waiting for when this 2 hour doesn't work vs machines since their melee attacks count as TP moves >.>

A 100% Counter-rate isn't that great, either, considering it is not hard to approach or hit the 80% cap on Counter-rate already.

Any additional effects the Development Bros can add to this ability would be welcome, just to make it a more potent improvement.

Also, I'm hoping against hope that the stuff the Development Bros learn from messing with this will help them adjust things so AoE "auto-attacks" can be treated more like normal auto-attacks rather than the abilities they technically are.

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Originally Posted by Theytak

Instead of 6 cloned 2hours given to a pet at reduced effect, pup's new 2hour should openly benefit the player. I've already lined out one idea, I think in this thread, though it may be elsewhere, that would essentially be similar to a spiritsurge effect; sacrificing the pet to buff the master based on the maneuvers they had active or the puppet they were using.

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I wouldn't mind boosting the automaton with a 2hr, as long as it actually was worth using it. I'm not even using Overdrive, the effects are too short and too small to consider it for those ohshyte moments.

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Originally Posted by SpankWustler

Good morning!



Just put the guy who did most of the work on Voidwatch in charge of it, and it'll be done within a day. He has more experience with AoE's and logs than anyone in the universe.

...

Ow! Stop hitting me! The joke wasn't that bad!

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Best post ever. I don't even care about the MNK 2-hour.

Hey everyone,

The new 2-hours were developed based on the idea that they would share the existing 2-hour ability's recast timer and players would be selecting which ability to use based on the situation. Instead of these being a higher-tier or universal abilities that can be used for any situation, they are abilities that are designed to be used for specialized conditions.

Below are the envisioned applications of some abilities as well as planned adjustments.

• Warrior
  While Mighty Strikes offers a lot of physical damage through critical hits for a period of time, the idea was to add a way to attack enemies that have strong resistances to physical damage.
  
  Based on testing and feedback, we are planning to make adjustments to extend the effect duration to 60 seconds. (Planning to make this change during this week’s Test Server update.)
  
  
• Paladin
  The new 2-hour ability can be used for cases where just turtling up with Invincible and letting an enemy wail on you will not turn the tides of the fight, since you can enhance your defenses while reducing an enemy’s HP with the reflected damage.
  
  *As mentioned previously in the post about adding an enmity boost effect to this ability, we understand the problems with the enmity cap. We plan on considering this for paladin in general and not limiting it only to the new 2-hour ability effect.
  
  
• Bard
  In addition to INT and MND, we will also be adding CHR to the stats that are lowered.
  
  
• Samurai
  Meikyo Shisui excels in instantaneous power. On the other hand, the new 2-hour ability is for cases where an enemy's AoE damage is too strong and getting close is dangerous. It will allow you to evade special attacks while dealing damage.
  
  *Magical attacks will not be evaded, but will be made so that the damage received is 0. This will not have any effect on breath attacks, though.
  
  With this ability we are aiming to make it possible to have a stable way of fighting by increasing defensive capabilities and diverting your time in battle towards enhancing offense capabilities.
  
  
• Dancer
  Trance is an ability that allows the player to take advantage of Waltzes and Steps, while the new 2-hour ability makes it possible to utilize Flourishes to the maximum. The advantage of this ability is that it makes it possible to always use the maximum effect for Building Flourish, Reverse Flourish, Climatic Flourish, etc., as you are granted 5 finishing moves.
  
  There have been requests asking for the recast times for Flourishes to be reduced or removed. The reason we did not do this is as you can expect, due to consideration for Reverse Flourish.
  While it's not our intention to allow for weapon skills to be used continuously without limitations, it would be nice to be able to utilize Flourish II and Flourish III continuously, so we will be changing the effects as outlined below to allow for instantaneous damage.
  
  • Reduce effect duration from 60 seconds to 30 seconds
  • In addition to the Flourish recast timer being reset, it will be possible to use Flourish continuously up to a total of 3 times.
  • The effect will wear off when either 30 seconds elapses or Flourish is used 3 times.

During this week's Test Server update, we will be adding white mage's 2-hour ability as well the warrior adjustment listed above and fixing related bugs.

We are planning to address the bard and dancer adjustments in the following Test Server update.

Amongst the feedback we have been receiving, there have been a lot of comments about changing the effects, reducing the 2-hour recast time, removing the shared recast timer aspect, and other ideas for largely changing the concept. It may take a bit of time to discuss and look into all of these, but we are planning to spend time on this without rushing implementation so that these are abilities that everyone is satisfied with.

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Originally Posted by Okipuit

[*]Bard
In addition to INT and MND, we will also be adding CHR to the stats that are lowered.

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What's the effect of lowering CHR anyway? I would have thought lowering AGI or VIT would be a more practical stat to affect.

It makes it easier to land BRD debuffs. It's actually pretty amusing that it wasn't part of the original 2-hour.

WAR: The 2-hour still doesn't affect WS damage, so it still isn't worthwhile. Warriors have about a 50/50 WS/TP damage split. Assuming Crits double damage (which they will against any enemy that is worth 2-houring), then the monster would need to have more than 75% PDT for the new 2-hour to be worth using.

Not only that, but you've already given us the necessary tool to invalidate this 2-hour entirely, Tomahawk. If a monster has 100% PDT and you Tomahawk it, for a little while it has 70% PDT. If 75% PDT is the cut-off, then Tomahawk + Mighty Strikes (30% with AF2+2 feet and 5/5 merits) is better than using this 2-hour.

You need to make this 2-hour apply to weapon skills too.

PLD: You aren't proposing a change, but I'm interested in hearing about potential changes to the enmity system. Please don't make them Paladin specific.

BRD: Okay, that was a pretty obvious change considering it's the only way to make the 2-hour give BRD an equal advantage. I approve!

SAM: I don't know if this avoids Tera Slash's additional effect (WSs received during 2-hour still hit for 0), but if it does then the 2-hour is entirely justified.

DNC: I'm not really sure what you're saying here. We can use 3 Flourishes back to back? Okay, that's nice I guess. It's pretty much a gimp Meikyo Shisui then? Definitely better than what we had. I would recommend extending the duration back to 60 seconds and reducing all flourish recasts, but you've already clearly decided not to do that.

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Originally Posted by ThaiChi

What's the effect of lowering CHR anyway? I would have thought lowering AGI or VIT would be a more practical stat to affect.

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Lowering the target's resistance to BRD spells. It would seem really odd if after using BRD's big 2 hour weakening ability on a target, it became more susceptible to every type of magic except BRD songs.

The development team needs to make sure that players will use these abilities. There would be nothing more insulting to players than adding new 2 hours that we'll never use.