Interim Report – Sorry to keep you all waiting!

I determined a while back that thats basically the case with everyone on the same side of this as Eye.

Probably but endgame in FFXI is just too time consuming and not even that exciting.
I liked FFXI back in the days where u was forced to grind and visit areas like boyada tree to work on ure character progress.
If i want endgame i go to wow, lots of better mechanics, honestly.

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Originally Posted by Ceinwyn

Probably but endgame in FFXI is just too time consuming and not even that exciting.

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Originally Posted by Ceinwyn

I liked FFXI back in the days where u was forced to grind and visit areas like boyada tree to work on ure character progress.

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10char....

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Originally Posted by Ceinwyn

Probably but endgame in FFXI is just too time consuming and not even that exciting.
I liked FFXI back in the days where u was forced to grind and visit areas like boyada tree to work on ure character progress.
If i want endgame i go to wow, lots of better mechanics, honestly.

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http://static.guim.co.uk/sys-images/...roning-007.jpg

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Originally Posted by Eyeballed

And funnily enough, you go on to add that it's not only these strict requirements that inhibit progression, but also the community of mongoloids you're forced to play with.

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If your only argument is "Mommy, Carth is being a bully! ;-;" , I'm just wasting my time.

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Edit: Why did you ever play this game again, either of you? I'm seriously at a loss for understanding.

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Because EXP is not 100% of this game.

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Originally Posted by Carth

If your only argument is "Mommy, Carth is being a bully! ;-;" , I'm just wasting my time.


Because EXP is not 100% of this game.

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That's not my only argument, and if you'd bothered to read and soak in all that I've said in this thread you'd know that my issue is not 100% EXP, nor endgame, nor anything in between. It's finding the reason MMO's on the whole suck so badly when, at one time, they were good with all the things both you and I liked within. Everyone concedes the genre is changing and "moving on", and I'd really like to see how you can prove this evolution has done any service to these games. I'm honestly astounded nobody has fallen back on the everlasting "If you don't like this game then go play something else!" quip.

And in case you missed it, endgame is not 100% of a game either. And don't give me that horseshit claim that it's still around. It is in its most superficial sense, and that's being generous.

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Originally Posted by Rustic

Till Geomancer/Rune Fencer show up, anyway. But hey, you're hardcore. Grats on the Maat's Cap++ level of dedication. You're effectively done with the game at this point until a new expansion shows up. Everything's old hat to you, you've likely run CoP missions till your eyes bled, fought Alexander enough times that you have your name on the list, could draw Lilith from memory with your off hand, and the words "Shadow Lord" on your screen trigger migraines and the only thing of interest to you at this point is whatever new comes along in the next expansion plus the next iteration of L99 gear.

In other words, you're done with 99% of the content. Now, tell me why it's a good thing that the current system renders a similar amount of the game meaningless to new players, and why new players would even come into a game like that- and in fact, how the game sustains itself without them.

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First of all, I never said any of that applied to me, and it doesn't. If I didn't have anything left to experience in this game, I'd quit. Second, every item you mentioned except for EXP I love and I would do again, and I help everyone out with. You are completely off base listing all of that, because none of it I have a problem with, and none of it I want to keep from others (again, EXP being the sole exception).

And even back when I never did any of it at all, I still hated EXP. I already said a few posts ago, there is only one thing I dislike about EXP. I can deal with grinds. I can deal with time sinks. I can deal with slow (or even no) rewards. The only thing I cannot deal with is boredom, and that's what defines EXP to me. You're trying to make it out to be a lot more than it is.

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Originally Posted by Eyeballed

Edit: Why did you ever play this game again, either of you? I'm seriously at a loss for understanding.

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I'm not surprised, you don't seem to understand much. If you read and understood any of what we said you wouldn't even be asking that, because we enjoyed the game for the same reasons we still enjoy it now, namely endgame.

You know what, I hate that term. Because it invariably makes people with an IQ lower than their shoe size think that the game is somehow at its end once it gets there, and sadly, as any internet forum, this place abounds with those people. That kind of reasoning is complete bullshit. The game does not end at endgame. Endgame simply refers to the end of the leveling system. The game branches out in a myriad of directions once there. It has tons of events, not just for hardcore players but also for very casual players. Everyone can find some fun in endgame except for the people who think the game only consists of EXP, and more importantly, who think that the game should only consist of EXP. Because those are the people who refuse to be proven wrong and go on and on against the rest of the world thinking they have it all figured out.

And those people I ask: Why are you still playing? You are the one discontent with everything the game is about right now. You are the one bitching at every turn, complaining about the state of the game, the state of all MMOGs, the community, the developers, and every aspect related to FFXI I can think of. I honestly see no reason for why you would still be playing.

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Originally Posted by Ceinwyn

Probably but endgame in FFXI is just too time consuming and not even that exciting.

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You are aware that you are defending old EXP, right? Because you saying that is absurd in every conceivable way.

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Originally Posted by Eyeballed

That's not my only argument, and if you'd bothered to read and soak in all that I've said in this thread you'd know that my issue is not 100% EXP, nor endgame, nor anything in between. It's finding the reason MMO's on the whole suck so badly when, at one time, they were good with all the things both you and I liked within.

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If MMOGs suck so badly, why are they one of the most profitable and still heavily growing markets in the entire world, whereas ten years ago they were almost unknown, during a time you proclaimed everything was awesome in?

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Originally Posted by Eyeballed

And in case you missed it, endgame is not 100% of a game either.

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Aside from crafting, it very much is.

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Originally Posted by Eyeballed

they were good with all the things both you and I liked within.

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The thing is... Back then I had to do the things that you liked, but you did not have to do the things that I like. I am no longer forced to do things your way and it saddens you because it turns out that most of the people who were doing the things you like, didn't actually like them. They were just a means to an end.


I don't want to go back to doing mid-level material on my maxed out character and even if I had to start over for some terrible reason, I would not want more mid-level crap placed in my path back to where I am now. I feel like a large portion of the population would agree with that statement for a large variety of reasons.

You're like one of those old hippies who became a cut throat yuppie lawyer and then had a midlife crisis and is now trying to recapture the spirit of wood stock by forcing all his friends to do LSD. You just can't recreate the place and time that once existed and you would do better for yourself if you left it the fond memory it is instead of ruining the present trying to bring it back.

Honestly not everything is Endgame at 99 either, Abyssea isn't endgame, leveling in Abyssea, and parties such as worms or Dom Ops are what I would say are earlyish, seals, as well as all of the old 75 content are kinda midgame now, and VW/Prov/NeoLimbus/NeoSalvage/Legion/NeoOdin are all basically Endgame. Not all 99 content is endgame, Abyssea is proof of that.

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Originally Posted by Arcon

I'm not surprised, you don't seem to understand much.

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Trust me, the feeling's mutual. And the whole point in having a debate/conversation is to gain understanding and unfortunately all I've gathered is exactly what you've said in that the grind is boring and therefore unnecessary. I'm sorry, "It's boring and I hate it because it's boring." will never be a good reason to not do anything.

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If MMOGs suck so badly, why are they one of the most profitable and still heavily growing markets in the entire world, whereas ten years ago they were almost unknown, during a time you proclaimed everything was awesome in?

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Excuse me sir, what planet do you live on? Because it sure as hell isn't Earth.

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Aside from crafting, it very much is.

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Yes, and we all learned back in 1985 with Super Mario Bros. that we didn't need to repeatedly jump, evade, get fire flower, shoot fireballs for 85% of the game in order to find it fun and amusing. All we needed was 8 Bowsers to have a complete game. Gee, I wonder what developers were thinking??!

Of course the boss battles are the most fun and engaging part of the game with their drops/rewards the sweetest of all, but you cannot make a game comprised of entirely that! If you DO, then you have NO REASON for an open world, and at the same time a game full of sidegrade/modest upgrade rewards because tossing out more difficult enemies for which to suffice their existence is not something developers just casually do! So instead of the old grind, what you now have is the new grind and a .001 chance of getting that next sidegrade piece of gear! What about this do you NOT understand?!!

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Originally Posted by FrankReynolds

You would have to be pretty retarded to think that I hadn't already mentioned to my shell / friends that I was attempting to do the quest and I really don't see how having two people shout for the same thing in the same zone (this was before /yell when everyone stayed in one place). I mean you're really just going on about how much better you are at forming groups and that completely goes against your argument that people who want old school style play can't find groups.

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Equating my inability to make classic EXP groups with your inability to organize a mission run would be to say "I couldn't get the mission started because 99% of those who could go with me were already doing it."

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Originally Posted by Arcon

You are aware that you are defending old EXP, right? Because you saying that is absurd in every conceivable way.

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Why? Because u think, just because endgame is as time consuming as the old exp it has to be at the same level of entertainment or that endgame is more exciting than a valkurm dunes party? Sry for me it isn't.
I'm sorry but I can enjoy a decent valkurm dunes party more than a voidwach run as long as it is meaningful, these days it isn't because of abyssea.
However, most people who like the old FFXI won't post here because u need an actice account to do so and when mine is finished I won't look back again either, so nobody should be that suprised that there seems to be a majority on the side of the questionable actual playerbase, just as a kind of note for everyone here thinking he is he majority ~.~

Arcon does not represent the opinions of the community at large. Hell, sometimes he completely abandons his own opinions out of convenience.

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Originally Posted by SpankWustler

http://static.guim.co.uk/sys-images/...roning-007.jpg

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OMG thats me when i'm playing \o/ my bf loves ffxi cause i get all the ironing done

When i first started playing xi the end-game sounded amazing. I was reading about cop and sky. That the fights were tactical and long not some mass zerg and tp spam fest. I started playing slowly leveling never got many parties as my tp feeding mnk was considered sub par. After a long time i made it to end game void watch boy was that a cluster f... If they could sort out tanking and aoe mass death tp, try and make the fights longer less insta death and more like the offline ff bosses i'd be a happy bunny.
Or a decent quest line that would of better prepared me for end-game. I was lucky i was in a good shell that didn't mind dragging me through content.

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Originally Posted by Eyeballed

Yes, and we all learned back in 1985 with Super Mario Bros. that we didn't need to repeatedly jump, evade, get fire flower, shoot fireballs for 85% of the game in order to find it fun and amusing. All we needed was 8 Bowsers to have a complete game. Gee, I wonder what developers were thinking??!

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Salvage pops you at the boss at the start right? Nyzul starts you at floor 100 staring down the boss too? Limbus lets you start fighting Arch-Ultima and Arch-Omega without doing the basement areas too, and lets not forget how Odin lets you jump right to him without bothering with the other areas of Einherjar. VW throws you right in Prov, Legion lets you start at Mul wave 3, don't make you fight the 'mini-bosses' or anything for progression either.

In case you misunderstand the point of this post, I am trying to say that we are not just jumping to bosses, there is a form of progression still. Legion and VW are the worst of examples, as everything is basically a mini-boss of sorts till the end, however Salvage, Nyzul, Limbus, they are all filled with lv99 normal progression mobs, Einherjar got a fail update in its amount of content, and only has level 75 trash mobs I think, but there is still a form of progression.

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Originally Posted by Demon6324236

Salvage pops you at the boss at the start right? Nyzul starts you at floor 100 staring down the boss too? Limbus lets you start fighting Arch-Ultima and Arch-Omega without doing the basement areas too, and lets not forget how Odin lets you jump right to him without bothering with the other areas of Einherjar. VW throws you right in Prov, Legion lets you start at Mul wave 3, don't make you fight the 'mini-bosses' or anything for progression either.

In case you misunderstand the point of this post, I am trying to say that we are not just jumping to bosses, there is a form of progression still. Legion and VW are the worst of examples, as everything is basically a mini-boss of sorts till the end, however Salvage, Nyzul, Limbus, they are all filled with lv99 normal progression mobs, Einherjar got a fail update in its amount of content, and only has level 75 trash mobs I think, but there is still a form of progression.

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Okay, allow me to reiterate that statement: All we needed was stages 1-4, 2-4, 3-4, 4-4, 5-4, 6-4, 7-4 and 8-4. So instead of 32 stages, we get a mere 8. A bit closer, but still no cigar.

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Originally Posted by Eyeballed

Trust me, the feeling's mutual. And the whole point in having a debate/conversation is to gain understanding and unfortunately all I've gathered is exactly what you've said in that the grind is boring and therefore unnecessary. I'm sorry, "It's boring and I hate it because it's boring." will never be a good reason to not do anything.

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Not to do what exactly? What is it you think I want? I wasn't giving reasons not to anything, or to do anything for that matter. People just like to read things into what I say, and all I'm saying is that the sole reason I dislike it is that it is boring.

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Originally Posted by Eyeballed

Excuse me sir, what planet do you live on? Because it sure as hell isn't Earth.

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Excuse me, Sir, read up and shut up.

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Originally Posted by Eyeballed

Yes, and we all learned back in 1985 with Super Mario Bros. that we didn't need to repeatedly jump, evade, get fire flower, shoot fireballs for 85% of the game in order to find it fun and amusing. All we needed was 8 Bowsers to have a complete game. Gee, I wonder what developers were thinking??!

Of course the boss battles are the most fun and engaging part of the game with their drops/rewards the sweetest of all, but you cannot make a game comprised of entirely that! If you DO, then you have NO REASON for an open world, and at the same time a game full of sidegrade/modest upgrade rewards because tossing out more difficult enemies for which to suffice their existence is not something developers just casually do! So instead of the old grind, what you now have is the new grind and a .001 chance of getting that next sidegrade piece of gear! What about this do you NOT understand?!!

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You and I have one single disagreement, just one. We both think the journey is more important than the goal, because once you reach the goal, you're finished and can quit the game. The one thing that just doesn't seem to fit into your mithra head is that endgame is not the goal, it is the journey, and the goal doesn't exist. EXP is not the "jumping, evading, getting fire flowers and shooting fireballs", as you describe it. That is endgame. EXP is blowing the dust out of the cartridge because you can't get the game to start.

Not wanting EXP does not have anything even remotely to do with sidegrades and low drop rates. That's your newest excuse in a long line of absurdly flawed implications with little to no reason provided for why it would actually happen.

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Originally Posted by Ceinwyn

Why? Because u think, just because endgame is as time consuming as the old exp it has to be at the same level of entertainment or that endgame is more exciting than a valkurm dunes party? Sry for me it isn't.

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I don't even know what the hell you're talking about, but what I was referring to was this:

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Originally Posted by Ceinwyn

Probably but endgame in FFXI is just too time consuming and not even that exciting.

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You think endgame is time consuming. You think endgame is not exciting. Hence, you don't like endgame.
EXP is time consuming. EXP is not exciting. Yet, you like EXP?

You make no sense.

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Originally Posted by Eyeballed

Okay, allow me to reiterate that statement: All we needed was stages 1-4, 2-4, 3-4, 4-4, 5-4, 6-4, 7-4 and 8-4. So instead of 32 stages, we get a mere 8. A bit closer, but still no cigar.

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While I replied to that retarded metaphor earlier already, let me phrase it this way: Mario was fun, all the time. EXP is not, ever. Hence your analogy fails as bad as every other argument you ever tried to pull out of your ass.

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Originally Posted by Arcon

Not to do what exactly? What is it you think I want? I wasn't giving reasons not to anything, or to do anything for that matter. People just like to read things into what I say, and all I'm saying is that the sole reason I dislike it is that it is boring.

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Because you find it boring does not, in any way, make it unnecessary. The grind will exist, because it has to, in some shape form or fashion if the MMO is to survive. Your way of thinking will destroy the open world, lock everything in an instance, stagnate the community and wither away most of what real adventure is left in these games today.

You're not going to change my mind, and I'm not going to change yours.

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Originally Posted by Eyeballed

Equating my inability to make classic EXP groups with your inability to organize a mission run would be to say "I couldn't get the mission started because 99% of those who could go with me were already doing it."

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Ummm no. You implied that you were far better than me at forming groups. Although you have yet to disclose exactly what it is that you would have done that would have caused people to join your group. I suspect that is because there is nothing you could have done.

My point was that a person who is super awesome at forming groups shouldn't be on a forum complaining about how hard it is to form groups. You have two options here.

A) you are in fact shitty at forming groups and that is why you cannot complete any of the old school content that you want to do so badly.

or

B) you can't find people to do the content no matter how good you are at organizing groups because there are in fact no peoplle who need / want to do that content.

In case "A" there is no point in changing the game just because you suck at forming groups. In case "B" there is no point in changing the game because no one wants it changed. Take your pick. Do you want to be the guy who sucks at forming groups but loves to tell everyone how awesome he is at it? Or do you want to be the guy who tries to force people to play with him? Personally I think that you are both guys.

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Originally Posted by Eyeballed

The grind will exist

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It still does, people simply seem to prefer a grind for gear rather than a grind for experience points.

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Originally Posted by Eyeballed

Because you find it boring does not, in any way, make it unnecessary. The grind will exist, because it has to, in some shape form or fashion if the MMO is to survive. Your way of thinking will destroy the open world, lock everything in an instance, stagnate the community and wither away most of what real adventure is left in these games today.

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Wrong, because you still think I mind grinds. I don't. I said so several times in this very thread. I liked old Dynamis. I like Salvage. I don't like VW. I like Legion. I don't like new Dynamis. All of them are grinds. Some I like, others I dislike, that's because the grind itself is not involved in that decision.

If you were insane and went back a year to look at the posts about Abyssea, you will see that I argued against it a lot, partly because it removed part of the grind. I made the exact same argument as you, because you're right: a certain balance of grind and reward is required, it cannot be all reward without hurting the game.

But that has nothing at all to do with EXP. EXP is entirely needless in this game. It's not required in any way, shape or form. It's not the only grind, pretty much every single thing in this game is a grind. Empyreans are a grind, relics are a grind, mythics are a grind, Dynamis AF2+2 are a grind, even more so the augmented versions, new Salvage and old Salvage are both still grinds, Voidwatch is a nearly unlimited grind. The game is full of them, you can't look anywhere without finding grinds. Losing EXP will do nothing to remove that aspect of the game at all.

Directx 11, frame less window mode and an option to turn off help bar for those of us who may not want it on would be nice.

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Originally Posted by Carth

The reason why it's so hard to get members in the first place is because the people that actually have CoP done doesn't dare do them again because they don't want to farm the items needed just to simply help out (this is why SE eventually allowed Anima and other "boss rape" items to be buyable on the AH). I can't blame them either. Who wants to waste their time getting items and a proper job and proper equipment(pre-level sync) for someone else, when your chances of success aren't guaranteed?

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After SE made the above changes (minus the removal of the level cap), CoP as very much doable. In the beginning, when the content came out, I'd agree with you, however. The level cap removal was an overkill, however I am in no way stating that players who wish to do it without a level cap on, be forced to have one on. No, I am asking for an option to do it WITH the cap while still allowing other players who wish to breeze through it choose not to. Maybe a nice token of some worth of doing it the without a level cap should given so players who which to go "above any beyond" the current difficultly can be rewarded for doing so.

That way CoP is no longer a barrier to those who wish to finish it to get to higher content quickly, but still be there for those who wish to replay it (or try it for the first time) the way the developers intended. Like I said, it wouldn't be too hard to code.

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Originally Posted by Demon6324236

I determined a while back that thats basically the case with everyone on the same side of this as Eye.

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Why? I want cake for both sides. I side with Eye on many issues but also see that people don't think the same way I or she does. I want an option for both sides and I believe there is room for both playstyles. Does anyone comment on a new interface to finding party members? No. They just sit and complain about the "old days" where finding one was "impossible". Well if it was impossible, make it possible with comments that can FIX the problem instead of posting like bitter old men.

A problem right now is that people are digging in ditches and sitting on sides, not seeing that there is room for compromise. What follows is a civil war war on the forums, dividing the playerbase and forcing a "my way or the highway" mentality that is spreading like poison throughout the community.

What I see mostly here are suggestions made... and instead of a simple agree or disagree post, I see flames coming out of every orifice. I also see posts by a small group of members (that I can count on my hands) that outright intimidate players of opposing view points to post at all. This goes for both sides. I bet you that 100 people read these posts but don't make a single post because they fear to get their heads blown up at the simple fact of poking their heads up and posting. All they say is that this thread is a cluster**** Enough already.

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Originally Posted by Semsenorie

Directx 11, frame less window mode and an option to turn off help bar for those of us who may not want it on would be nice.

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I agree, as it was most people didn't know how to turn off the ? icon next to their name without a lengthly discussion with them. Some form of tutorial (offline) should be added as well, to teach new players the battle dynamics and how to look for a party etc. (that can be flagged off easily as well).

A new player shouldn't have to find a vet player to learn the game's basic features. When I got the game back in 2004. I got a nice large manual. Now that is downloadable, one is needed.

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Originally Posted by Demon6324236

It still does, people simply seem to prefer a grind for gear rather than a grind for experience points.

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Well said. I think the matter at hand is to examine why. Both are progress, both make you more powerful. I think herein lies the answer. The gap. The inability of lower level players able to play with higher ones. Why? Level synch is still there... I think the problem is inherent in the system that enables you to group up with others. I really hope SE sees that the game needs a massive overhaul to its user interface. There should be little to no work in finding a party. It's a simple as that. The clunky old LFP system was a MAJOR complaint the entire length of the of the lifetime of this game and it has not been addressed. The only thing that was added was a little hard to find "comment" area to a player's name on the server list.

What the game needs is an overhauled GUI (like I said many times before) that makes it as easy as point and click, to find players to do the SAME quest with or level with. This feature should not be an inactive/active one but ALWAYS active. A player should always see 24/7 a list of quests I am on (and I am flagging that I need help with). It should always be active and not have to be reset when I log back on. It would allow players to click on their quest they are on, click on "Look for members needing help" and POOF. A list of players should appear. They should be able to click on a player and engage in a /tell. There should also be an option to go /anon so one is not spammed if they are doing something important that needs concentration.

Why oh why was this not added YEARS ago is beyond me. Instead of fixing the problem, they decide that exp is broken and they eliminate the exp ladder (and group events for lower level players... and a vast amount of content) almost altogether. This was the #1 reason why people left the game, it was the #1 reason why people complain about "leveling in the old days". This is why to some, gaining exp was fun, to others a big hassle. I never had problems finding a party, I made one. Maybe this is one reason why I found those good ol' days fun and not others?

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Originally Posted by Prrsha

Email me!

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Prrsha? You going to respond to my email? :o

The LFP system is the way it is for ease of use with a controller, since it was made to be a console MMO. The console having limited memory leads to limits on what info can be stored for flagging which quests you want help on. If the game was PC-only then it would probably be doable, but with consoles in the mix, it's not. Maybe the LSC could allow for that sort of communication...

All of that information can be stored server-side, so none of that is an issue.

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Originally Posted by Arcon

First of all, I never said any of that applied to me, and it doesn't. If I didn't have anything left to experience in this game, I'd quit. Second, every item you mentioned except for EXP I love and I would do again, and I help everyone out with. You are completely off base listing all of that, because none of it I have a problem with, and none of it I want to keep from others (again, EXP being the sole exception).

And even back when I never did any of it at all, I still hated EXP. I already said a few posts ago, there is only one thing I dislike about EXP. I can deal with grinds. I can deal with time sinks. I can deal with slow (or even no) rewards. The only thing I cannot deal with is boredom, and that's what defines EXP to me. You're trying to make it out to be a lot more than it is.

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And in that regard, I'm in the middle. I think oldschool exp rates were mind-numbing. I think Abyssea exp rates are overdone. But I also think that without people having reasons to go out there, you don't have people even thinking about those zones. I don't think we need people going to the same zone for a month straight grinding away in Garbage Sit-adel slapping bats and beetles around- but they should have a reason to go there for a level or two, for a day or two. Not because of some masochistic need for people to grind, but so people actually experience the zone and a feeling of progress that isn't "blink and it's gone".

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Aside from crafting, it very much is.

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And heck, crafting is more of a 100% game in the sense that it takes people all over the game world, from the basics in Zerhun/Saruta/Ronfaure as newbie crafters all the way out to the guy smacking around an HNM and hoping for a crafting drop. Endgame is -not-. Endgame is "doing what's at the end", and it focuses around the stuff that gives you the top-end gear in a limited number of areas at the top levels the game allows. You want the endgame to be a "100% game", start putting endgame HNM's in 100% (or near to it) of the game zones- just not all at once. Kill one? Another one spawns somewhere else. Maybe your alliance takes down an HNM Antican in Quicksand Caves. A Giga Behemoth pops up in Qufim. He dies. Deep in the Outer Horutoto Ruins, a Wild Cardian appears. It goes down. Castle Zvahl gets a new Demon King. Blam. A Gold Hydra in Mamook. Boom. A Great Tauri in the Aqueducts. Bang. A Fomor in Arrapago Reef. Biff. A Golem in Ro'Maeve. They don't have to have a huge unique loot table (indeed, quite the opposite) - but let them have drops that relate to the area they spawn in. Random AF2 pieces and some ancient currency in one case. Some Salvage armors and alexandrite in another. A mixed bag of AF3 seals for a third. Crafting materials. That sorta thing. Things relevant to the care and feeding of L99 players, in other words.

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Originally Posted by Rustic

And in that regard, I'm in the middle. I think oldschool exp rates were mind-numbing. I think Abyssea exp rates are overdone. But I also think that without people having reasons to go out there, you don't have people even thinking about those zones. I don't think we need people going to the same zone for a month straight grinding away in Garbage Sit-adel slapping bats and beetles around- but they should have a reason to go there for a level or two, for a day or two. Not because of some masochistic need for people to grind, but so people actually experience the zone and a feeling of progress that isn't "blink and it's gone".




And heck, crafting is more of a 100% game in the sense that it takes people all over the game world, from the basics in Zerhun/Saruta/Ronfaure as newbie crafters all the way out to the guy smacking around an HNM and hoping for a crafting drop. Endgame is -not-. Endgame is "doing what's at the end", and it focuses around the stuff that gives you the top-end gear in a limited number of areas at the top levels the game allows. You want the endgame to be a "100% game", start putting endgame HNM's in 100% (or near to it) of the game zones- just not all at once. Kill one? Another one spawns somewhere else. Maybe your alliance takes down an HNM Antican in Quicksand Caves. A Giga Behemoth pops up in Qufim. He dies. Deep in the Outer Horutoto Ruins, a Wild Cardian appears. It goes down. Castle Zvahl gets a new Demon King. Blam. A Gold Hydra in Mamook. Boom. A Great Tauri in the Aqueducts. Bang. A Fomor in Arrapago Reef. Biff. A Golem in Ro'Maeve. They don't have to have a huge unique loot table (indeed, quite the opposite) - but let them have drops that relate to the area they spawn in. Random AF2 pieces and some ancient currency in one case. Some Salvage armors and alexandrite in another. A mixed bag of AF3 seals for a third. Crafting materials. That sorta thing. Things relevant to the care and feeding of L99 players, in other words.

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Well said.

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Originally Posted by Arcon

All of that information can be stored server-side, so none of that is an issue.

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Correct as well. Heck FFXIAH can bring up a great deal of information and it hardly needs full access to the servers. It's just laziness on the SE's part (or overlooked) for some reason. Not only would this new interface help with leveling/exp but with endgame events (gear gathering) as well. You could even add a "synth request" option.

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Originally Posted by Eyeballed

Prrsha? You going to respond to my email? :o

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Sorry for the delay, reply sent! :3

Greetings,

I’d like to share a follow-up post from Producer Akihiko Matsui in regards to Perfect Defense/Embrava adjustments as well as content adjustments.

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Originally Posted by Akihiko_Matsui

Hello,

Thank you for all of the feedback since the version update regarding Legion, Neo-Nyzul, the Salvage expansion, and Meeble Burrows.

• Regarding the 600 skill cap mentioned in the explanation for the adjustments to Perfect Defense
  I’d like to apologize that this was conveyed as if it was going to be immediately possible to reach 600 and it also was received like the development team did not understand the current situation. Also, I apologize that this was not followed-up on sooner.
  
  I believe that in future posts there will be cases that we give similar explanations, and we would appreciate it greatly if you could take these to mean that “while it is currently not possible to do this, there is a possibility for growth in the future.”
  
  It’s extremely difficult to have everyone come to the same understanding on the first try no matter how we convey or write it, so we would like to respond to this kind of posts in a shorter time frame by rephrasing the content or through other techniques in order to improve communication.
  
  
• Embrava stats
  I’ve been hearing that the reason for changing the regain effect to refresh was to turn it into a spell that would give a beneficial effect to not only the frontline jobs, but to backline jobs as well.
  
  I’ve been looking over all of the adjustment suggestions that you all have submitted and discussed it with the job lead as well as the content leads, but this is something that needs to be done at this specific time, so we will be proceeding with the original adjustment plan.
  
  
• Content adjustment
  While I won’t be getting into the specifics about which aspects and such, I have been speaking the development team members about adjustments and re-adjustments for Neo-Nyzul, Legion, Odin, and Voidwatch (up to Provenance watcher) based on the adjustments to Perfect Defense and Embrava.
  (Based on the above adjustments, if adjustments to the Salvage expansion are necessary we will look into that as well.)
  
  However, in regards to Arch Dynamis Lord, since this is a monster that drops materials for upgrading relics, we plan on maintaining the current conditions.
  
  Additionally, for Meeble Burrows, with the version update that is scheduled for the beginning of the year, the effect of Embrava will be made to reflect the adjustments similar to the Salvage expansion when we implement the new expeditions.

We will be working hard on development so that Seekers of Adoulin is enjoyable and also to reflect the need and importance of the above adjustments. Thank you very much.

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Fine, keep the nerfed Embrava regain intact but to give us a bone, make Tabula Rasa enhance the potency of Adoloquiem. First make Adoloquiem give a base of 2TP/tick but shorten the duration slightly. Secondly make Adoloquiem under the effect of Tabula Rasa give 3-4TP/tick similar to how Tabula Rasa enhances "Regen" spells. This would be a decent compromise as Adoloquiem is limited to 'party only' unlike Embrava which can be cast on anyone, secondly the effect is weaker than Embrava's 6/tick regain at max skill.

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“while it is currently not possible to do this, there is a possibility for growth in the future.”

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this statement would be fine had there not been previous cases *cough* enhancing pet treasure hunter *cough* where this statement was implied but was later followed up with "we didn't say anything about doing this / we didn't promise this" basically shooting down the idea people had in imagining a "possibility for growth in the future."

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However, in regards to Arch Dynamis Lord, since this is a monster that drops materials for upgrading relics, we plan on maintaining the current conditions.

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more like "However, since ADL already depends on chance even with embrava/perfect defense, we will not nerf ADL despite nerfing the abilities that make him reasonably beatable."

I guess I was wrong. Matsui is doing all he can, just like Yoshida. I really hope they both have time for a break once in a while. They should go on a Producer's vacation! *pictures them drinking sake and complaining about the whiny players*

Bumping to remind the producer the collective hatred the RDM community has for the revised, enfeebling-based 1-hout SP. Everyone liked the Encomium concept better, please enhance and implement it.



No, I don't care about anyone tired of hearing about it, awful ideas shouldn't be allowed to slip through the cracks.

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Originally Posted by Akihiko_Matsui

Embrava stats
I’ve been hearing that the reason for changing the regain effect to refresh was to turn it into a spell that would give a beneficial effect to not only the frontline jobs, but to backline jobs as well.

I’ve been looking over all of the adjustment suggestions that you all have submitted and discussed it with the job lead as well as the content leads, but this is something that needs to be done at this specific time, so we will be proceeding with the original adjustment plan.

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まずい考え

Back line jobs have PLENTY of support. This is nothing more then a "I'm sorry we gave you something too nice, we are taking it back." I'm sorry but that is how most players see it. The corporation has let down to many people with this game and honestly the more you change it the worse off it gets in most cases.

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Originally Posted by Rubicant82

...honestly the more you change it the worse off it gets in most cases.

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If the game never changed, you'd have more Tanaka drop rates. At least the new dev believes in point based system to obtain loot.

Embrava shouldn't have been implemented the way it was in the first point. If it wasn't added, people wouldn't be complaining now because there would be nothing to complain about. In addition, content shouldn't have been tailored to be zerged as well (and as a result embrava was needed to do so). I think the changes are being done one at a time to get away from "zerging" and replace it with a new method of boss fights. Rome wasn't built in a day and I doubt zerging will go away anytime soon. It started with DRK zergs back before the level 75 cap was raised. After that you had a haste nerf. People complained as well then but they managed to adapt.

The problem that differs from the DRK zerg and the current zerging, is the content that has been added that just begs to be done that way. I really really hope Matsui-san takes a good look at how the boss content was designed in his absence and sees it needs major revisions. What seemed like a good idea on paper for a boss for level 75, doesn't work well at 99. When you pass 75, certain flaws in the entire battle system become evident. The small imbalance gaps of the 75 era turn into giant rifts at 99. I really don't think the devs back then really saw what was coming when they removed the level 75 cap and how the math works when you apply it now. It was as if they never planned to ever lift the cap.

What needs done now, is an entire re-work of the battle system from the ground up. Haste needs reworking... enfeebling... subjob combos... and TP gain. Also defense values and DPS. All of this should be fixed before even considering adding new jobs. If 75% of your jobs aren't really needed, why add more? Shouldn't you retool the existing content first before adding say... "play as a monster" to the mix?

I fear it is out of Matsui-san's hands right now. SE has set a release date and I bet his higher-ups are breathing down his neck. I don't envy his job... it must be as hectic as hell. I hope everything can be balanced before the expansion release because the expansion will need constant attention as more and more content is added on. If SE wishes to keep their gold mine going, I hope they devote more staff to FFXI so both can be worked on at once.

I have faith that Matsui-san can set things right (he did design the battle system of the game after all). I just worry on how long it will take with so many issues at once. Here's hoping to a good new year for FFXI! :3

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Originally Posted by Prrsha

If the game never changed, you'd have more Tanaka drop rates.

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Complaining that they often change the game in ways that contradict the written expressed requests of the players is in no way the same as saying that they shouldn't change the game at all.

These guys consistently ask us what we think they should do and then do the opposite.