[dev1024] Job adjustments - RDM

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Originally Posted by cidbahamut

Edit: post I was responding to got edited. Now I has a sad.

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I put Shiyo on my ignore list, right next to Rosina, since they contribute knowledge and discussion about equally. I edited my post because I was falling for another senseless troll attempt.

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Originally Posted by Rayik

EDIT: On second thought, nevermind. It's clear from your posts you have zero knowledge of RDM outside of opening chests and healing, and have zero interest in hearing any other input than your own, so there's really nothing left for either of us to say to each other.

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I remember saying earlier she was just a troll and the best thing for everyone to do was add her to your ignore list. I've done so any multiple "RDM sux your not a melee not shutup and make me a sammich" people, makes browsing the forums MUCH easier.

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Originally Posted by saevel

I remember saying earlier she was just a troll and the best thing for everyone to do was add her to your ignore list. I've done so any multiple "RDM sux your not a melee not shutup and make me a sammich" people, makes browsing the forums MUCH easier.

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Exactly.

I would love to actually make a RDM melee thread and discuss RDM melee; gear, styles, set ups, areas in game that work ell, etc. Sadly, that'd be impossible in the current state of this forum. It would just be more of the same BS and never-ending circles.

The great RDM vs Bluemage debate... Well, I see both jobs in totally different light. Though, a blue Mage has better physical spells(cheaper mp, less casting time)...blues have greater TP gain(mob) and greater enimity gain...plus their magical spells are ridiculously long casted with low damage.

Redmages, have access to slow nukes, but are pretty strong when they hit. With enspells, Redmages hit are the same level as blue ages, on normal melee swings. Chainspell, can drop most mobs by a quick amount. And RDM's aren't tied down by "blue points" and spell selection. Between break and sleep, RDM can do a nifty job of keeping mobs down, just as much as a headbutt can.

Both job are dependent on their sub job selection. Both can increase melee and magical damage based on gear choices. And both can fill in "support" slots.

Blue is more solo orientated, while RDM's take a more direct approach with party aid.

I'm flat out asking a mod why Shiyo hasn't been topic banned yet, even at ffxiah they would have banned them by now. No one can seriously behave like that and be old enough to be on the forums. They don't bring anything to to conversation and they are constantly derailing the thread. Also Shiyo before you open your mouth do some research you obviously have no understanding of what rdm can and can't use or do. Shiyo if you notice 85% RDM pictures SE released has them wielding a sword(from SE) another 9% with dagger and another 6% with a staff, so this should tell you not every time is right to be meleeing; based on your logic. Also in your booklet under job descriptions at least it is in a couple of the ones I have, it says rdm infuses his sword with his magic to better lend his aid in battle. Also they constantly pull the thread off topic. Rdm empy+2 gear allowed us to enhance others, and make it worth the mp cost, strength our enfeebling, and bring our magic attack to new highs they have never been. This also allowed rdm to no longer need Elemental staffs to land slow2, blind2, para2, ect at cap. In other words I can cap slow/para2 on 90% of nms who aren't immune to it while wielding my Almace and C.flueret. The AF+3 has made it easier for rdm to do the job it needs to while using swords like it never has been able to before. I also play blu and a well geared blu's CDC outside abyssea only average 160 more damage then a well geared rdm. inside they aren't much difference blu get's to stay ahead because of it's ability to wear Loki's but the average blu cdc in abyssea is only about 300 stronger. RDM hits hard enough to just give to much tp, if it's a mob where top doesn't matter, then this is void. Temper will have great uses. MY RDM does melee at ls event's and contributes a good amount of damage. Is it game breaking? no is it worth me being on the mob unless he has aoe to watch out, more than.

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Originally Posted by Luces

I'm flat out asking a mod why Shiyo hasn't been topic banned yet, even at ffxiah they would have banned them by now. No one can seriously behave like that and be old enough to be on the forums. They don't bring anything to to conversation and they are constantly derailing the thread. Also Shiyo before you open your mouth do some research you obviously have no understanding of what rdm can and can't use or do. Shiyo if you notice 85% RDM pictures SE released has them wielding a sword(from SE) another 9% with dagger and another 6% with a staff, so this should tell you not every time is right to be meleeing; based on your logic. Also in your booklet under job descriptions at least it is in a couple of the ones I have, it says rdm infuses his sword with his magic to better lend his aid in battle. Also they constantly pull the thread off topic. Rdm empy+2 gear allowed us to enhance others, and make it worth the mp cost, strength our enfeebling, and bring our magic attack to new highs they have never been. This also allowed rdm to no longer need Elemental staffs to land slow2, blind2, para2, ect at cap. In other words I can cap slow/para2 on 90% of nms who aren't immune to it while wielding my Almace and C.flueret. The AF+3 has made it easier for rdm to do the job it needs to while using swords like it never has been able to before. I also play blu and a well geared blu's CDC outside abyssea only average 160 more damage then a well geared rdm. inside they aren't much difference blu get's to stay ahead because of it's ability to wear Loki's but the average blu cdc in abyssea is only about 300 stronger. RDM hits hard enough to just give to much tp, if it's a mob where top doesn't matter, then this is void. Temper will have great uses. MY RDM does melee at ls event's and contributes a good amount of damage. Is it game breaking? no is it worth me being on the mob unless he has aoe to watch out, more than.

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You're not meant to feed them.

PS. Don't forget come lvl. 99 we'll have access to Gain-DEX which if it sticks to the current format will be around +25 DEX. So not too bad.

Well seeing as the skill rate is +7 per level from 91 to 95, we gain 35 skill then another 28 from 96 to 99. That's 63 skill or +6 stat gained from now till then. And I'm spying a new +5 belt I'm gonna be after. So between that 63 and that +5 I'm looking at a +7 gain in my stat spells. I'm enjoy it more and more.

Yeah, after hearing from the brave boys on the shores of the test server, my opinion of the Gain and Boost spells is much higher as well.

Noticed this on the German Forum.

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* Holds an information desk sign over her head *
New to the RDM. It will be nice new spells, but they can not make it to the next version update. The developers will also take care of the Enfeebling / Resistance problem.

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Shame Red Mages can't go all Gandalf... sword&staff ftw. (With staff being held in the sub slot.)
For RDMs in FFXI, that would mean:
* you gain the (magic) bonusses of the staff
* you lose shield bonuses (if any)
* you lose dual wield bonusses (if any)
* you still lose TP if swapping the staff

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Originally Posted by Kristal

Shame Red Mages can't go all Gandalf... sword&staff ftw. (With staff being held in the sub slot.)
For RDMs in FFXI, that would mean:
* you gain the (magic) bonusses of the staff
* you lose shield bonuses (if any)
* you lose dual wield bonusses (if any)
* you still lose TP if swapping the staff

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skyrim is gonna be SOOOOO fun. >.>

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Originally Posted by saevel

Why would you be trying to melee them? That's just asking to die. THF's are insanely hard to hit, MNK's can CS and use Emp WS to nearly one shot you, BLU's will stun lock you the moment your within casting range, PLD's will just laugh at you as your won't scratch their paint. PVP is the one place you want to be pure page, stay as far away from the enemy as possible and wear them down over time. If you stay away your basically invulnerable, if you get close you provide them with a chance to use their abilities and seriously hurt you.

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Well me I melee because the mp cost of elementals is awful even with the damage they deal as well as the long casting/recasting times between them. This combination in it self is why I PREFER to melee RDM more than use magic. Meleeing also allows my Refresh 2 to restore more mp while I wait on recasts for my highest tier spells. I usually RDM/DNC because of sambas which also assist my regen 2/ refresh 2 spells for keeping up hp/mp as well as the steps that lower defense and evasion further than Dia and Gravity can accomplish. Gravity, slow, quick step, and blind2 helps with thieves, paladins arent really all that much of an issue when you have higher tier protect and shell combined with fully merited phalanx 2 and keep them bio ii to reduce thier attack power to lower damage taken. I cant say much about going against a Blu mage as I havent faced many BLU Nm or anything else for that matter but silence, paralyze, and keeping up barthunder I imagine would help reduce to effectiveness of any stun type moves and so would having your own shock spikes up to help stun them.

In any case paralyga, slowga, and any other -ga spell for rdm I was only referring to in terms of soloing and dealing with links a little more effectively. Slowga, paralyga, silencga, sleepga, when used in combination all reduce the overall attack rounds a mob would have to attack you giving you extra "free shots" if you will to damage the mob further than you otherwise would without them. These ga spells would also prove useful in battlefields with multiple mobs that need to be defeated in a time limit. I just always believe in having more than one of anything (healer/nuker/enfeebler etc.) RDM is unique as that it can serve as a stand in to any of those roles with little gear change needed to do so though they are still helpful to have.

based on the descriptions I agree they would be casted on a party member and that party member will receive that effect.

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Originally Posted by CapriciousOne

based on the descriptions I agree they would be casted on a party member and that party member will receive that effect.

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Stop double posting and replying to thin air. It's bad forum etiquette.

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Originally Posted by CapriciousOne

based on the descriptions I agree they would be casted on a party member and that party member will receive that effect.

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Are you on about the JA's? If so they are able to be cast on others.

What's the point of our set effect on AF3? Enhances composure so that our enhancing magic lasts longer on others. That's pure crap seeing as RDM has maybe 3 spells that we can cast on others despite having the highest enhancing skill not counting Phalanx II, a merit spell. Regen/Refresh/Haste is about all we can cast on others. RDM nukes are as bad on Voidwatch NMs as they were at 75 on Kings/Sky Gods. RDM has nothing to contribute to anything in FFXI outside of our merit spells. Our nukes are second-rate, our cures are third rate, our debuffs are nice but not even by a wide margin. We have Slow II which is still only 75% as good as Carnage Elegy, WHM is getting Addle but we can't get Cure V. Boost-Spells are nice at 95, can get +20ish STR with good enhancing magic but guess what WHM gets the AoE version.

Seriously everyone says RDM contributes with good enfeebles but our enfeebles don't make much of a difference. Blind/Blind 2 are a joke. Poison is insignificant. Paralyze has trouble landing and is random. Slow 2 is decent but TP moves are what kill alliances. Dia III is great but it's a merit spell. All of our good enhancing spells are self-only except for Refresh II which isn't even useful anymore since everyone can Convert and Refresh themselves, making Refresh II a novelty. Our barspells are stronger than WHM but we don't have the gear to augment them and can't aoe them either. RDM is a bad, bad job.

I hate how SE has made almost every NM immune to Sleep/Gravity/Bind/Silence since Rise of Zilart came out. Our primary task as a RDM is to debuff. If you make NMs that are immune to debuffs, then let's start making NMs that are immune to Great Katana damage or Great Axe damage.

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Originally Posted by Ophannus

WHM is getting Addle

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I'm sorry, I agree with most of what you're saying but I don't understand this. Why is this such a sticking point for everybody? Addle isn't even that spectacular.

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Originally Posted by Stylin

I'm sorry, I agree with most of what you're saying but I don't understand this. Why is this such a sticking point for everybody? Addle isn't even that spectacular.

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Not to mention that people knew that WHM was getting Addle for months now, since October of last year.

It's a sticking point because they keep saying it'll upset game balance if other jobs get stronger cures and will ruin WHM's uniqueness yet at the same time give away everything that makes RDM unique like Refresh/Dispel/FULL STRENGTH CONVERT and now Addle. At 99 BLM/RDM will get Haste too.

Right, it's a sticking point because pretty much the only unique spells in RDM's line right now are Refresh II, the Merit spell line, our lolEnspell-IIs And soon to be Temper.

All other spells are hashed out to other players sometimes before we even get them. This especially stings in the debuff department as it's supposed to be our specality, where the only thing that seperates us is the merit spells and Saboteur.

Like I said, just give us Cure 5 but remove the low enmity factor and remove the part of the formula that adds in VIT and maybe even reduce the amount that Healing Skill is factored in. In the end it'd be a Cure 4.5 with more enmity but it's still something. My DRG makes a better healer than my RDM.

SE doesn't want to give RDMs Cure V.. fine. Give us Curasa : Restores HP to a party member. The lower the HP is, the more it will recover.

It's THAT simple. It's not Cure V, unless the target is below 25% HP.

WHMs can get the aoe version, Curaja.

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Originally Posted by Kristal

SE doesn't want to give RDMs Cure V.. fine. Give us Curasa : Restores HP to a party member. The lower the HP is, the more it will recover.

It's THAT simple. It's not Cure V, unless the target is below 25% HP.

WHMs can get the aoe version, Curaja.

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RDM is not SCH, they never said they wouldn't give it to RDM, they did so for SCH.

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Originally Posted by Ophannus

It's a sticking point because they keep saying it'll upset game balance if other jobs get stronger cures and will ruin WHM's uniqueness yet at the same time give away everything that makes RDM unique like Refresh/Dispel/FULL STRENGTH CONVERT and now Addle. At 99 BLM/RDM will get Haste too.

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What does any of that have to do with anything? Addle is not that special to warrant such fervor. It's more or less a Plan B for mobs that can't be silenced. The fact that a majority of new NMs can't be silenced is not something to be proud that we have Addle for. Rayik already pointed out that it was never meant to be a spell unique to RDM. Considering how WHM already shares the other White Magic enfeebles it surprises me how people were blind-sided by this update.

No, they never said that they would not give SCH Cure V. They specifically said that they would look into other methods to improve healing, but that it does not mean they will not add Cure V at a later date.

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Originally Posted by Stylin

What does any of that have to do with anything? Addle is not that special to warrant such fervor. It's more or less a Plan B for mobs that can't be silenced. The fact that a majority of new NMs can't be silenced is not something to be proud that we have Addle for. Rayik already pointed out that it was never meant to be a spell unique to RDM. Considering how WHM already shares the other White Magic enfeebles it surprises me how people were blind-sided by this update.

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To be fair just because it's White Magic doesn't mean it will always go to WHM. Gravity, and soon to be Gravity II is Black Magic and no one else got them but RDM. (not including /rdm)

We knew Addle was going to WHM, but just saying just because it's their type doesn't mean they will always get it.

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Originally Posted by Daniel_Hatcher

We knew Addle was going to WHM, but just saying just because it's their type doesn't mean they will always get it.

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Of course not. I'm just saying freaking out over it is uncalled for, no matter what your stance is.

RDM's specialty is enfeebling and enhancing yet 95% of our most potent enfeeble and enhancing spells go to other jobs. WHM specializes in healing but they have a monopoly on the potent healing spells and regens. Gravity II is probably going to be really dumb as almost nothing is susceptible to Gravity anymore unless they make it like Flash or something and have it give a super potent evasion down effect also.

Para2/Slow2 are nice but our job's usefulness shouldn't be dictated solely based on merits. That's like making Cure5/Cure6/Esuna and Auspice merit spells. Most jobs fare pretty much the same without merits. Take away BLMS AM2 and they're more or less the same. Take away NIN's Sange or San spells, they're the same. Take away Feint or Aura Steal from a THF, they're the same. Take away Chivalry or Fealty from a PLD they're the same. But take away Para2/Slow2 from a RDM and you cripple literally the only things that make a RDM it's own class. A RDM90 is basically a BLM75/37RDM in almost every way except without AoEs.

Everything useful that RDM has or has ever gotten is from level 1-49 which soon anyone can gain from subbing.

My dreams/hopes for RDM:
-Nerf Convert to be 50% as potent when subbed.
-Make Refresh1 give 2mp/tick(makes RDM main more appealing)
-Remove immunities to Bind/Sleep/Break/Silence/Gravity on NMs.
-Vastly increase the potency of Paralyze 2 and Slow 2.
-Increase the potency of Phalanx/Phalanx 2.
-Make Enhancing Skill affect enhancing spells more.
-Nerf Haste/Hastega spells for /WHM /RDM and upcoming /SMN.
-Give RDM a specialist at Fencer traits. No job deserves Fencer more than RDM --the job that's actually a Fencer and has Fencing related equipment including equipment with the word Fencer in the name.
-Add a job ability or spell(Temper maybe) that allows use of EX Sword Weapon Skills i.e Red Lotus Blade/Vorpal Blade.
-Add an enfeeble strictly for RDM that lowers the target's Magic Defense and Magic Evasion.
-Poison III
-Regen III and/or Refresh III(WHM can get Regen IV and Regen merits/gear, but we're stuck on Refresh II)
-Dispel should remove more buffs relative to enfeebling skill(RDM and SCH ONLY)
-Increase Healing and Elemental skill to B- or B+.
-Increase Sword skill to A-, leave Dagger at B+.
-Increase Shield Skill to B-.
-Increase Parrying Skill to B-.
-Increase Enhancing Skill to A+.
-Allow Gain-Stat spells to not only be able to be casted on self, but also single target as well like Regen/Refresh.
-Haste 2 at 99.(This should only happen if Haste for /WHM40 and /RDM48 is not weakened, why should /NIN's Utsusemi Ni be reduced to 3 shadows and /THF's Sneak Attack reduced but /RDM and /WHM's Haste are full strength?)
-Scale Blink to grant more shadows every 100 enhancing skill or something. It could be 4-5 Blink Shadows at around 400 skill making it not a completely worthless spell at higher levels.
-Increase base for Stoneskin, nobody wants to carry around 4 pieces of gear to enhance Stoneskin. Some of these pieces are hard to obtain because nobody does Campaign Ops.
-Make Spontaneity a 5 minute recast. 10 minutes doesn't make it a useful tool, it makes it a novelty like Circles/Breakers for SAM/DRK/DRG/PLD. Sekkanoki is a miniature Meikyo Sishui and is a 5min recast but Spontaneity, a miniature Chainspell is a 10 minute recast. Which is the stronger ability? The one that can be used to make a 4,000 damage light skillchain with 200% TP every 5 minutes or the one that lets you instant cast a Cure 4 or a Sleep 2 once every 10 minutes?

In summation, the only reason anyone would allow a RDM into an alliance at 99 would be for Paralyze2/Slow2 and Dia 3 only. At 99 BRD/SMNs will be able to March 3/March2 along with Hastega'ing the alliance. Even BLM/RDMs can haste. Refresh II won't matter because all mages are /RDM for their own Refresh and Convert. Along with their AF3 which gives +2 Refresh, Refresh II spell on RDM is superfluous. RDM's can't heal or nuke anything important without Cruor buffs and Atmas outside of Abyssea. We have C- Elemental magic and second-rate access to MAB gear outside of our Empyrean armor. We can hardly heal, we can barely nuke, our enfeebles are tepid and lackluster, our melee/swordsmanship is extremely underpowered for anything outside of casual soloing. Despite having the highest enhancing skill in the entire game, none of the spells we can cast on others is affected by enhancing skill(Refresh/Regen/Haste) aside from a merit spell, which even with 5/5 merits is equal to a SCH's Phalanx+Accession and WHM gets AoEs of all of our good enhancing skills (Boost-Stats/Bar-Spells).

RDM is a Paralyze 2/Slow 2/Dia 3 machine at 90, and that's all. Our entire job's usefulness is based on 3 merit spells and nothing else.

No on Gains to others, Haste II, Cure V, and just trying to nerf shit because you're unhappy. I'll be one of the first to point out the pending homogenization between RDM and SCH come 99, especially with the insistence that RDM should never draw a sword according to some, but that's more or less justification for RDM to grow its own way instead of cutting everyone off from nearing what it was.

There are still a lot of potential enfeebles SE could tap into, some existing on other jobs like BLU, while others we've mulled over here and elsewhere. I see this path as being far more feasible than the spiel about being demi-god buffers, but it all hinges on SE actually trying to make enfeebling be worth something, or dare I say, required. Whatever comes of it, I want the possibility of multiple RDMs being present to be considered, so new enfeebles could be built up to an ultimate potency with multiple casts like DNC steps instead of lamely having no effect.

I don't see why we can't Gain on others even if it's single target and in party like Etudes. What's even the point of giving us Gain-AGI/Gain-CHR anyway if not for completion's sake? Would be nice in low man to cast AGI on a THF or maybe CHR on a BRD or something but we'll realistically never use those spells because they're no important for RDM 99.9999% of the time! I normally wouldn't care but since SE said the Game's Spell-list is reaching maximum capacity, why bother adding superfluous spells like Gain-CHR for RDM if we can't even cast on others. That's a total waste of a potential spell for another job or ours that will now never come to be because it's taking up a space with its miserable existence. It would be nice if enfeebls from different sorts all stacked the way Slow II and Elegy stack. Maybe give Jubaku and Hojo their own Icons and let them stack with Slow/Paralyze also? Could be nice to have cumulative Slow/Paralyze/Gravity enfeebles the way Dia/Box Step/Angon all stack.

dAGI buff. CHR... I still don't have, and probably never will have, it's just continuing in the line of gain spells for each stat.

just ftr, rdms current dagger skill is B, not B+

then, as far as a ja/spell to gain access to ex ws's... i'm sorta hoping we just GET those with the coming proficiency update. rather than atatching them to a spell.

as for fencer.. i don't think it would really outweigh DW. i'd be equally happy if SE just stopped trolling rdm's everywhere and changed the damn name..

healing is a tough one.... not only do we not wanna step on whms toes... but you also need to figure in scholar.. should scholar be a better or worse healer than rdm? because that effects where rdm needs to land, since you may need to leave room between rdm and whm for sch.
for rdm anyway..
1) i'd like to see composure changed, so it effects all members. then give regen3/4 to rdm. with composures duration buff, that becomes a LOT of hp recovered for the mp spent.. it doesn't really solve the "holy shit!" problem but it's a step in the right direction. think about it... regen4 fulltimed?

or

2)alternately, i'd like to see the enmity reductions for cure 5 (and maybe 6) removed, then give whm a significantly stronger tranquil heart trait. make it so they break even (may even buff them when you consider cure4) while making room for rdm or sch to cure5 if it's really critical. it needs to be limited somehow.. regardless of how much "better" whm can cure, if rdm/whm could FREELY cast cure5.. that would be "good enough" and we'd likely be right back to toau.

or

3) lets just get way more fast cast? like a crazy amount. to the point where we can fire off 2 cure4's in the time it takes a whm to do 1 cure5. there is an issue here with that being crazy overpowered when you consider stuff like utsusemi or sleep, but it's something to toy with. maybe just lower the recast on cures?

While Gains on others can be useful, sure, it's not another cycle I'd welcome.

I'm really curious about this "WS adjustment" portion of the update. In that Dev response we got earlier(can't remember if it was in this thread) Camate noted RDM specifically, so my big question is are we getting access to other EX WS's(Vorpal, Sanguine, etc), or are they just fixing the numbers on the ones we already have(Savage Blade, etc)?

SCH can get Cure 5 just make it require Addendum White. RDM should have gotten Cure 5 this update as we've always gained Cure Spells about 5-6 levels before SCH and PLD. THey keep saying they don't want to overpower RDM by giving us Cure 5 but they said they had a similar stance to not letting BLU equip KC/Joyeuse/Ridill, and now BLU can use OAT and OA2-4 swords.

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they said they had a similar stance to not letting BLU equip KC/Joyeuse/Ridill, and now BLU can use OAT and OA2-4 swords.

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Two different dynamics.

Dealing Damage with multi-attack weapons is offset by the fact that the damage values of these weapons are low and the fact that both you and the monster are gaining TP at an enhanced rate.

Curing, however, does not come with that balance factor, Cure V in particular being even more-so with this as it does not come with the potentially dangerous hate spike Cure IV can provide. Furthermore, the additional traits and abilities White Mage get to make it a superior healer is not always necessary for a number of situations. Giving Red Mage and Scholar Cure V puts them in direct competition for a slot that the developers pretty much perceive as designated for the White Mage to fill, as curing and status removal is the root selling point of the job, offering little else.

Keeping the healing performance so widely differentiated helps White Mages keep the position they have, one that the developers had to piratically redesign the job to wrest from the hands of Pink Mages.

If White Mage were to receive just 1~5% more "Converts % of 'Cure' amount to MP" effect some some new source, the job would have a HUGE lead in cure MP efficiency when properly equipped. Maybe I'm nuts, but I assume the effect will be on another piece of equipment or a level 99 merit.

Something along those lines would pretty well blot out the main reason Scholar or Red Mage could overtake White Mage for marathon events, and maybe the jobs could finally get some new and much needed tools for keeping folks less dead.

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Originally Posted by SpankWustler

Something along those lines would pretty well blot out the main reason Scholar or Red Mage could overtake White Mage for marathon events, and maybe the jobs could finally get some new and much needed tools for keeping folks less dead.

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You're seriously mistaking the reason why RDM and SCH would best out WHM .

It's not that they would beat out WHM's curing in the long haul, that may have been part of the reason during the ToAU era.

The issue now is what the job offers ASIDE from curing. IF SCH and RDM can handle main healing on their own as a 'viable healer', they could likely do so and provide some of their other important support functions as well, reducing the amount of support slots players need in a party so more DD's can join in. WHM get's bumped out because they offer very little else to the group.

This gets even moreso for Scholar in fights as they could 2hr Embrava up for a specific section of the fight, and they've already got an AoE stat increase like the Boost spells. With /RDM giving hast at 99 that lack of curing power is going to be all it lacks to overpower WHM's position for all but the most hecktic fights.

RDM's higher Debuff Line, and longer duration buffs make it superior at dolling out Haste to the needed Melees, and Refresh II out paces Martyr. /SCH or /WHM provides the status removal needed and Stratagems /SCH can provide some elemental resistance needed. Pair that off with the highest fast cast of any job.

Then you have Saboter. Need a stronger Slow II? A better Dia III? RDM can flex it's debuffs to whatever the party desires while being the original self-sustained for support.

These are pretty compelling reasons for keeping RDM's and SCH's healing potential in check. Unless they start giving some other means of support on WHM more than what they have to support the party, WHM is going to start looking like overkill on everything but the toughest mobs/events in which both consistently high damage, and nasty status effects are a frequently recurring problem.

I might not like being able to cure bomb my allies anymore, but I fully understand the reasoning. And I'd much rather have more unique spells and have less raw curing potential, then have the curing potential and be shoved in the WHM corner for general use.

Oh no! Jobs meant to do multiple things would be desired due to their ability to do multiple things, particular when a lot of one thing isn't needed!