99 Empyrean Trials.

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Originally Posted by Nynja

lol? What the fk happened to making 16m per run?

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Did I say 16M per run where ¿ I said "I made 16M today just from dynamis"

what the hell are you talking about expensive then relic and such, empy's are sooo much easier and vw nms are a joke for plates besides people selling 100's from 700k-1mill a pice is way more expensive then a empy will ever be. If anything SE might lower the requirement and Arch DL....fun. He makes VW seem easy.

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Originally Posted by newmonkey

Ls friend has just finished empy 99 stage in one day pfftt hard my arse

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Why is it that so many people seem to either skim through posts, or lack reading comprehension? There is nothing hard about the empyrean trials if you have the gil to spend and the supply is sufficient.


The fact that you are forced to spend millions of gil on both trials to be able to finish within a reasonable amount of time, is utterly ridiculous in itself.

Well Marc was crying on saying its a hard trial because he couldn't find 60 dross and i posted the pic showing Vod got 60 dross in less than a hour from upper jeuno.

It's pretty obvious hes from a fucked up server were apparently there is no supply but on quetz obviously there is, end of the day 60 dross is nothing and its a good solid number.

Sure by all means make the plates drop more often as 1500 is pretty high.

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Originally Posted by newmonkey

Well Marc was crying on saying its a hard trial because he couldn't find 60 dross and i posted the pic showing Vod got 60 dross in less than a hour from upper jeuno.

It's pretty obvious hes from a fucked up server were apparently there is no supply but on quetz oibviously there is, end of the 60 dross is nothing and its a good solid number.

Sure by all means make the plates drop more often as 1500 is pretty high.

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That's the whole point. You're depending on supply to be able to finish, plus the fact that even if you personally spam the 2 vwnms that can drop riftdross/cinder, you might end up with nothing.

As soon as interest in voidwatch drops (i.e. when new events are introduced), chances are the supply of both plates and dross/cinder will dry up. And it doesn't matter how much gil you have, if there's no plates or dross/cinder to buy.

Why would people stop spamming them ? Plates and dross sell for good money, however im pretty sure in the other chapters of vw left to come more plates and dross etc will drop.

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Originally Posted by newmonkey

Why would people stop spamming them ? Plates and dross sell for good money, however im pretty sure in the other chapters of vw left to come more plates and dross etc will drop.

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Yeah and I was pretty sure that Jeuno II chapter would drop heavy metal pouches, it seemed like a logical progression from Jeuno and Zilart paths. Or at the very least singles. But hey guess what, no pouches, and only 2 of them can drop single plates. So I wouldn't hold my breath if I were you, I sure am not.

Well if that happens then by all means give them hell on here or continue to do so now so it doesn't happen.

All that bothers me is the cheap shots between empyrean holders and relic holders each one aruging why the other is more difficult or expensive and it's a bit silly now the trials are the most balanced they have ever been.

Let's also not forget we know the stats for all weapons now and some relics are better than empyreans and some empyreans are better than some relics.

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Originally Posted by MarkovChain

Did I say 16M per run where ¿ I said "I made 16M today just from dynamis"

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Ok, and even if you did 2 runs in 1 day, you just upped your currency count from ~5m per run to ~8m per run, which still makes no sense at all.

With the version update only four days away, I doubt SE has even looked at this thread, more less, even considered making sure the player base knows there will a constant rate of HMP and dross/cinder on the servers. More of us are just asking for this. I will buy HMP and dross/cinder if the price seems right, but on Asura, the prices are going up every day it seems. 130k for HMP and 1mil-1.5mil seem to be the norm on cinder. I have seen dross go for 800k, but still yet that's a little over the top. SE needs to realize the content that supplies HMP and dross/cinder needs an adjustment for these three items alone. I am willing to stay here and voice my opinion on the matter, but I am also going to patiently wait and see if SE fixes this in four days as well. If no go? Then I will be making sure a shit storm comes this way on the forums. I agree we all have seem to have gotten off topic at some points to argue, but now it is time to get on topic or else SE will just scoff at this and continue on their "Merry Bullshit Way" and not even care. Look, I'm sorry your relic trials suck for who has one. Like someone mentioned, prices can range across servers, and on Asura, it sucks. At least the ADL umbral's were reduced to 5 from 20. Yes, argue that it would've been complete bullshit if it wasn't, but can't you all see that's what us Empyrean holders are doing as well? All of us believe it's complete bullshit that HMP and dross/cinder drop rates are less likely to be seen than they should.

I'll be EXTREMELY surprised if there is an adjustment to empyrean 95 trial in the version update next week. I'll be equally as surprised if they have adjusted the drop rate on plates/dross/cinder. No, surprised isn't the right word to use here - I'll be shocked.

But I'm hoping that some day in the not too distant future, SE will realize that they need to increase the supply of these things. Like I said earlier, it doesn't matter if you have billions of gil if there's no plates/dross/cinder for sale.

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Originally Posted by newmonkey

Why would people stop spamming them ? Plates and dross sell for good money, however im pretty sure in the other chapters of vw left to come more plates and dross etc will drop.

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LOL gil really at a high chance of getting jack crap for a couple hours or work. There are far btter ways to make gil that you don't even have to think about. Hay but WoEs drop some gear that could go for a couple mil do you anyone doing it.

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Originally Posted by Ravenmore

LOL gil really at a high chance of getting jack crap for a couple hours or work. There are far btter ways to make gil that you don't even have to think about. Hay but WoEs drop some gear that could go for a couple mil do you anyone doing it.

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Considering the amount of 90 empyreans i'm pretty damn sure people will spam stuff to work towards getting plates for you just compare that to woe is just stupid.

This.

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Originally Posted by newmonkey

Why would people stop spamming them ? Plates and dross sell for good money, however im pretty sure in the other chapters of vw left to come more plates and dross etc will drop.

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And this.

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Originally Posted by newmonkey

Considering the amount of 90 empyreans i'm pretty damn sure people will spam stuff to work towards getting plates for you just compare that to woe is just stupid.

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Mean two different things.. The first quote doesn't agree with the second quote at all. The second would suggest people with 90 empyreans will do plates for themselves. How is that putting plates and cinder/dross on the market? VW is dying out, even if you don't see that or not, it is. Plates and cinder/dross will die out if something isn't done.

What exactly are you poiting out Eric, a shit load of people have 90 empyreans im pretty sure most would like to see them upgraded so these people will want to do vw to get plates, at the same time other people like gil and as vw can be done fast and very easy im sure some people will go along for the chance at some possible gil hell there is one guy on my server sets up nightly runs just to try to get plates to sell.

Point i was making in anycase was there will be a demand for plates so im sure you're just been a tad paranoid thinking vw is going to dry up and let's not forget there is more chapters to come and ive already covered all this in previous posts keep raising hell and ensure se add plates in the future chapters i personally think its a given they will be by all means bump your gums and continue to shout on.

Well I hope you're correct. Because SE would not surprise me if they made very few new VW NMs drop plates or cinder/dross. Also, as far as I can tell, raising hell hasn't even got us a dev response.

Agreed it would be nice to get some kind of responce from the devs it really wouldn't hurt them to confirm there will be more supply in the next update.

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Originally Posted by newmonkey

Point i was making in anycase was there will be a demand for plates so im sure you're just been a tad paranoid thinking vw is going to dry up and let's not forget there is more chapters to come and ive already covered all this in previous posts keep raising hell and ensure se add plates in the future chapters i personally think its a given they will be by all means bump your gums and continue to shout on.

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I don't think there was any question that there will be a demand for plates. The issue and worry for most people is whether there will be a consistent supply in the future. Since it doesn't look like there are any new chapters of VW this update, hopefully that'll give SE enough time to figure out a way to add them to the next update.

I could be wrong but isn't the update next week a kind of mini update and we are due a major update in March ? I may be wrong here but i always thought it was March we got the next major one.

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Originally Posted by newmonkey

What exactly are you poiting out Eric, a shit load of people have 90 empyreans im pretty sure most would like to see them upgraded so these people will want to do vw to get plates, at the same time other people like gil and as vw can be done fast and very easy im sure some people will go along for the chance at some possible gil hell there is one guy on my server sets up nightly runs just to try to get plates to sell.

Point i was making in anycase was there will be a demand for plates so im sure you're just been a tad paranoid thinking vw is going to dry up and let's not forget there is more chapters to come and ive already covered all this in previous posts keep raising hell and ensure se add plates in the future chapters i personally think its a given they will be by all means bump your gums and continue to shout on.

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Then why the hell are they not doing it now. Also why do you think we will get more VWNM or that it will even be worth it to spam. How long would people spam it? Its dying fast right now not much can stop the bleeding. The event is already seeing the masses walk away from it while still need the items. What a chance at what a couple mil for a hour of shouting, getting people to camp spaming it then a high enough chance for all that to be wasted. Why do it when I can go and be sure to make at least a mil in the same time frame solo. You put to much faith in SE.

PW and ADL you can get your ls and kill it at any time, since all you do is go kill it for the items. Doesn't matter how much you lose out helping your LS, it's a LS raid. If you aren't going to help out then why are you even in a LS? You can sure as hell kill more than 1 ADL per day anyways, and it can drop more than 1 umbral. There is no problem with supply since it's guaranteed to drop. We haven't lost to ADL since lvl 99, it's a mob designed for lvl 90's. Who cares if it splits just kill it. If you trying to lowman it with 6 then maybe its not 100%.

Being from an LS that can and does kill everything, I assure you, the order of difficulty is indeed mythic>Relic>Empy. Bard in my ls has finished 99 empy harp, but she will also have 99 relic and mythic soon after the patch as well. Only reason we havent farmed PW is it would be stupid too until the zeni change. She has cinder cause there's tons for sale as only 2-3 people have finished 95s, so cinders are 500k now. She also mass bought them when no one wanted them. Perhaps your server has no 95 empys thus there's supply. I know of at least 2 95s that use dross, prob quite a few more on my server, so they will buy them up for 1m, or some reseller will and try to gouge me on it. There just isn't a supply anymore. Heck my LSmates don't even all trade stones evne though we kill flan/ogres, meaning even less supply. After people get their bodies weapons, which drop like candy, they stop trading stones. Once the strong players stop going, then no one will be able to kill flan/ogre, since these 2 are a bit harder than the normal VW fodder.

People whined about VW low droprates, but when they put out like flan/ogre do, then people get finished and don't kill em no more. Should see how many athos and ogre bodies my LS has, so every time one drops that's one less person using stones anymore. Most my LS has run out of stones long ago, they will only trade when they want something. We've been spamming VW since it's release.

How long before your LS becomes bored with it. You pick up more sheep? Its simple there is not enough sheep to go around for relics.

I don't see us getting bored of it. We've been kililng ADL since it was released. Now there's an actual good reason to kill it instead of hoping for sagasinger to drop. Reason we don't got more umbrals is we only do Ls dyna 2x a week, and we do arch diabolos as well. If we just focus on 2x ADL a week can easily knock out a relic a week or so. We've got 10 people with at least 1 relic, so i'm sure we'll finish for those 10, then see what happens after that.

We also do ogre flan 4x each a week or more at least, yet i've gotten no progress on my 95 ukon. Having a mob that for sure will drop what you need and only need 5, is far far far easier than needing 60 of something that doesn't always drop. Done around 70 flan/ogres, would think I would be done with the trial no? Not even close. Now if ADL only had a 5% chance to drop umbral, then it would be harder than empy lol.

It's going to come down to your sever/ls then Marc because the 99 relics trials are going to be harder for my group, afterall someone got 60 dross yesterday and i see a galka selling 60 dross right now in upper jeuno at 1 mil each mind o.o

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Originally Posted by macross

I don't see us getting bored of it. We've been kililng ADL since it was released. Now there's an actual good reason to kill it instead of hoping for sagasinger to drop. Reason we don't got more umbrals is we only do Ls dyna 2x a week, and we do arch diabolos as well. If we just focus on 2x ADL a week can easily knock out a relic a week or so. We've got 10 people with at least 1 relic, so i'm sure we'll finish for those 10, then see what happens after that.

We also do ogre flan 4x each a week or more at least, yet i've gotten no progress on my 95 ukon. Having a mob that for sure will drop what you need and only need 5, is far far far easier than needing 60 of something that doesn't always drop. Done around 70 flan/ogres, would think I would be done with the trial no? Not even close. Now if ADL only had a 5% chance to drop umbral, then it would be harder than empy lol.

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So you do have a bunch sheep. Only reason they would follow a leader into a event they get nothing out of.

Or that you didn't even read his post and notice that his LS has 10 people with at least 1 relic, which is already nearly all of the people you would need to kill ADL. Also you are neglecting the fact that the LS members who enter Dyna to help on ADL likely want stuff from other events that his LS rotates in.

Cut the ad hominem sheep shit.

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Originally Posted by newmonkey

It's going to come down to your sever/ls then Marc because the 99 relics trials are going to be harder for my group, afterall someone got 60 dross yesterday and i see a galka selling 60 dross right now in upper jeuno at 1 mil each mind o.o

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Buy them all for me before you transfer then.

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Originally Posted by Ravenmore

So you do have a bunch sheep. Only reason they would follow a leader into a event they get nothing out of.

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Maybe you'd have bad experiences with LSs perhaps? First of all, I'm not even a officer, just a peon. My LS has been around since the NA launch. We do almost everything first, get almost all server first kills. ADL AV PW you name it. Even killed ogre and flan within 3days of their release. We work with the mentality of 'even if you don't get it today, we will keep farming it till everyone who wants it gets it". I can honestly say I've killed every HNM in the game, except for one of the arch diabolos, due to the 1/4 chance he will pop, and it being very rape.

I may be a sheep in the sense that the LS leader will plan the event and that's what we'll do. Of course he will get the first 5 umbrals, but that is only because he has the most DKP, plays the most. He may be an asshole and what not, but he is fair and not selfish. And we do get something out of it, the pride of being able to actually kill stuff, and get shit done. Being able to help your shell, making yourselves the best. Why even be in a shell if all you care about is yourself? I'm not the type of person to 'loot and scoot', nor is anyone in my shell.

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Originally Posted by macross

Buy them all for me before you transfer then.

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Send a mule to pick them up and ill glady buy them for you right now.

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Originally Posted by macross

Maybe you'd have bad experiences with LSs perhaps? First of all, I'm not even a officer, just a peon. My LS has been around since the NA launch. We do almost everything first, get almost all server first kills. ADL AV PW you name it. Even killed ogre and flan within 3days of their release. We work with the mentality of 'even if you don't get it today, we will keep farming it till everyone who wants it gets it". I can honestly say I've killed every HNM in the game, except for one of the arch diabolos, due to the 1/4 chance he will pop, and it being very rape.

I may be a sheep in the sense that the LS leader will plan the event and that's what we'll do. Of course he will get the first 5 umbrals, but that is only because he has the most DKP, plays the most. He may be an asshole and what not, but he is fair and not selfish. And we do get something out of it, the pride of being able to actually kill stuff, and get shit done. Being able to help your shell, making yourselves the best. Why even be in a shell if all you care about is yourself? I'm not the type of person to 'loot and scoot', nor is anyone in my shell.

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If there's one thing I know about Lunarians, they stick to their guns and they're a damn good shell. Some of them are cool and some of them are jerks, but that's true of any shell their size.

I'd look into joining you guys seeing as I'm on very often, but I'm afraid I'd wind up burning out fast lol.

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Originally Posted by Finuve

this is a game, take your real life comparisons and gtfo

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Sorry, the analogy was too complex.

Let's try something else then:

Food good, fire bad.

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Originally Posted by DrStrangelove

Food good, fire bad.

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actually if you made it through grade 10 history, you'd know without fire, you'd still be drawing stick figures on your cave wall out of coal, or whatever was used back then, and your food wouldnt even be good.

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Originally Posted by Nynja

actually if you made it through grade 10 history, you'd know without fire, you'd still be drawing stick figures on your cave wall out of coal, or whatever was used back then, and your food wouldnt even be good.

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Umm....okay, I see a 4-word, single-syllable sentence was too complex. Not surprised!!


And just to be clear, fire was discovered by various pre-human ancestors long before modern humans. The development of complex thought in modern humans occurred 700,000 years afterwards.

Cave drawings were made using coal (from their own cooking) or charcoal that was found on the ground from natural fires, so this had zero to do with the discovery of fire. In fact, development of cave drawing was 740,000 years after fire was discovered.

So cave drawings have nothing to do with fire, but complex thought that occurred in modern humans which did not exist until around 70,000 years ago.

If your point was that without fire (which had been discovered 700,000 years before modern humans existed), that we'd still be living in caves, then I'm dieing to hear the theory.


Now getting back to another complex thought:

Empys are not hard to get to 95, nor 99. What is intended is that they will not ALL get to 95 or 99. This is called planned scarcity. Had SE wanted all of them to be 95 or 99, then you would be able to do a quest (kill mobs, get xp). They use drops to reduce the abundance of completed weapons.

If you want to argue this, you have to convince SE that having 32,000 level 99 empys in 12 months is a good thing.

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Originally Posted by DrStrangelove

If you want to argue this, you have to convince SE that having 32,000 level 99 empys in 12 months is a good thing.

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I'd love to see the numbers on relics 12 months after the dynamis revamps. Particularly the CoP zones.

You argue SE doesn't want ALL empyreans to be 95, but relics are basically handed their 95 trial. I'm personally okay with 60 riftdross/cinder as long as their are more fights that supply them in the future. Because Rex/Ig aren't going to be fought consistantly for very long and the supply for those items will eventually dry up otherwise. I'm more likely to get 60 dross/cinder than I am to get 1500 plates.

Yes, I can spend all my in-game time converting massive amounts of cruor into gil, adding too the inflation. But it's not a simple matter of taking my money bags down to the heavy metal plate store. The supply for HMP is dwindling. Voidwatch is losing popularity as more people either get the drops they want or simply give up on this crap. And beyond all that, why pay so much gil for such a minor upgrade? Anyone who does is buying a Rolex but getting a Casio.

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Originally Posted by Kysaiana

I'd love to see the numbers on relics 12 months after the dynamis revamps. Particularly the CoP zones.

You argue SE doesn't want ALL empyreans to be 95, but relics are basically handed their 95 trial. I'm personally okay with 60 riftdross/cinder as long as their are more fights that supply them in the future. Because Rex/Ig aren't going to be fought consistantly for very long and the supply for those items will eventually dry up otherwise. I'm more likely to get 60 dross/cinder than I am to get 1500 plates.

Yes, I can spend all my in-game time converting massive amounts of cruor into gil, adding too the inflation. But it's not a simple matter of taking my money bags down to the heavy metal plate store. The supply for HMP is dwindling. Voidwatch is losing popularity as more people either get the drops they want or simply give up on this crap. And beyond all that, why pay so much gil for such a minor upgrade? Anyone who does is buying a Rolex but getting a Casio.

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I think we have points of agreement:

1) they need to make sure there is some reason to do content for HMP, ADL and PW besides just the completion of weapons. That alone will not create a supply.

2) Relics are 4,000 and will never be 32,000, no matter how easy the 95 or 99 content is. The huge hurdle is the start with 120 million gil. Empys are already 16,000 and the hurdle is at the back. That's where the two differ and it's why SE will restrict empys at the back end.

3) It's unfair to look at each upgrade by itself. Empys are great weapons that are easy to solo / duo / lowman if you will all the way to 90. At 90 they are free and basically the best weapons. Mythics and relics do start to become better depending on the weapon, at 95 or 99. If SE sets a high hurdle AFTER 90 it's because the road up to 90 was fast, free, clear and easy. It's on the whole that you have to compare them.

1) We do agree on this.

2) According to the Census it was 6,640 relics at the time of the Census compared to 3.985 the previous year. http://www.playonline.com/ff11us/gui...nsus/10/4.html I'm not sure where you got the 32,000 empyrean number from. It was 27k ish at the time of the Census so that number is probably right or too low. I wouldn't be surprised if there was 10k+ relics at least by now. Still no where near 32k but give it time, relic popularity has gone up recently especially since 90 and 95 trials made many relics equal to if not better than their empyrean counterparts.

As for the gil hurdle on relics, you can solo farm a relic to 75 in a few months time, there's no gil requirement, and you only need help with the attestation/fragment parts and even those are soloable for some people. People only spend gil because it takes less time to make gil than farm the currency. Empyreans are easy to 90. I don't think anyone would argue against that. Relics are also easy. They only take longer because you're limited to 2hrs of dynamis a day while you can spend as much time in abyssea as you have stones for / get TE's. Both weapons are free if you want them to be and saying "I spent 120 mil on a relic, therefore empyreans should spend 150mil on one trial." doesn't add up to me. It makes no sense to have a huge road block in empyrean weapons two trials after you get the weapon skill/aftermath.

Sorry, that was a bit of a rant.

3) I agree. On the whole, relics are easier to get to 95 than empyreans. They also cost less gil if you chose to go that route. So I guess relics are the easier weapons? The 99 trial remains to be seen. Which is the whole point of this thread. I highly doubt SE is going to ease up on any of the trial requirements than they already have no matter how much we gripe.

Ok Most people stil buy curreny for relics i should know i sell plenty of it each night however that been said you do know that you can go spam dynamis and sell the currency to fund your plates right ?

So technially the 95 empy trial is free if you want to use that silly excuse, oh and by the way its 30 mil for the last ukon stage and its going to be at least 100 mil for the last relic stage, again what are you trying to prove here ?

Tadaaa 2x level 99 for us tomorrow and yeah it's the easiest trial of the 3 by far, though boooring. The relic one is going to fun at least. Hopefully the plates nerf makes PW trial easy too. Now for a 99 daurdabla.

are you going to post this alleged video or what?

we'll have 2x 99 tomorrow too, today's ADL dropped 2 marrows yay. 1x 99 empy harp, my ukon will still be 95 sadly for long time. Should have 3x mythic done in a few days if people spam their zeni too.

its 60m as dross sell for 1m here, and people won't budge. I guess peeps buy them in the hopes they will finish a 95 someday shrug.