[DEV 1009] Kings update, drop rates.

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Originally Posted by MarkovChain

No. The effectiveness of pdt doesn't depend on other gear. You are doing semantic. If a mob hits for 100, -5% pdt always means -5 damage. I don't care if going from 55 to 50 is -8%, it's not more efficient than 100->95.

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If you have 100 delay, 5% haste always means -5 delay. I don't care if going from 50% to 55% is +11.1%, it's not more efficient than 0=>5%.

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So when I ask you for a mob where defending ring would be useful, you link me to a video where a guy proves that you can kill dragua with ZERO defensive gear. LOL.

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You mean the same mob you claimed couldn't be killed without

a. /nin
b. earth resist gear
c. earth resist atma?

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Originally Posted by MarkovChain

No. The effectiveness of pdt doesn't depend on other gear. You are doing semantic. If a mob hits for 100, -5% pdt always means -5 damage. I don't care if going from 55 to 50 is -8%, it's not more efficient than 100->95.

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Actually, it very much is, and that is my point. It reduces the same amount of damage, yes, but when you take 100 and reduce it by 5, you probably won't notice much of a difference (it means you can take 5% more damage). If, however, you only take 55 damage (due to other PDT gear) and reduce it by another 5 damage, you can take 10% more damage than before. It's because the reduction is the same as with the delay reduction from haste, where also more haste means higher benefits. To take an extreme example: pets and their 100% PDT can live infinitely long (on physical only mobs). The final reduction from 5% to 0% PDT is infinitely more efficient than the reduction from 100% to 95%. These are just extremes, but same point.

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Originally Posted by RaenRyong

If you have 100 delay, 5% haste always means -5 delay. I don't care if going from 50% to 55% is +11.1%, it's not more efficient than 0=>5%.

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These are 2 different things. I'll try to explain it to you with simple words. More haste has increasing return on the dps. More pdt has NOT increasing returns on damage taken per second. Lol BG. Take my above exemple with a mob hitting for 100 every 10 seconds. 5% pdt always removes the same damage, aka 5, every 10 seconds. 5% haste doesn't always add the same amount of damage depending on your base haste. It adds a lot more damage if you have already 75% haste than if you have zero%. What's the difference ? Mobs always hit at the same speed regradless of your gear... Isn't this obvious ? I bet you are one of those pseudo-elistist posting in the newb haste threads too.

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Originally Posted by Arcon

Actually, it very much is, and that is my point. It reduces the same amount of damage, yes, but when you take 100 and reduce it by 5, you probably won't notice much of a difference (it means you can take 5% more damage). If, however, you only take 55 damage (due to other PDT gear) and reduce it by another 5 damage, you can take 10% more damage than before. It's because the reduction is the same as with the delay reduction from haste, where also more haste means higher benefits. To take an extreme example: pets and their 100% PDT can live infinitely long (on physical only mobs). The final reduction from 5% to 0% PDT is infinitely more efficient than the reduction from 100% to 95%. These are just extremes, but same point.

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Nope. If your pet takes 1 damage instead of 2 damage you indeed get 50% damage reduction, but your are nowhere clearly more efficient. It's still as broken and your pet can't die. With cure 6 and all the broken things that came with the level cap increase there is no point in reducing damage further when you are getting hit with less than 100 damage.

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Originally Posted by MarkovChain

These are 2 different things. I'll try to explain it to you with simple words. More haste has increasing return on the dps. More pdt has NOT increasing returns on damage taken per second. Lol BG.

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Except it does. Subtracting a set number from a larger number has a lesser effect than subtracting it from a smaller number.

Subtraction is always increasing returns, and addition is always decreasing returns.

You don't know what increasing returns means rog. What you are saying is that it has increasing returns on the % reduction of the damage you are taking, which is ALOT different than saying it has increasing returns on the global of amount of damage you are taking.

Extreme exemple

I'm at 1 damage taken per hit with 40% pdt and I equip defending ring. I'm now getting hit for zero. This equals to -100% damage taken. But I'm still taking -1 damage per second campared to 40% pdt.

I'm at 4 damage taken per hit with 0% pdt and I equip defending ring. I'm now getting hit for 3. This equals to -33% damage taken. But I'm still taking -1 damage per second campared to 0% pdt.

In both cases the aboslue damage taken is a constante increase (1 damg per second)

For haste it's different. Haste increases the amount of damage (not the %) dealt depending on you base haste :

If you deal 100 damage per second with zero% haste, adding 1% haste adds 1.01 damage per second

If you deal 100 damage per second with zero% haste, adding 50% haste adds 100 damage per second

If you deal 100 damage per second with zero% haste, adding 51% haste adds 104.08 damage per second

As you see pdt has constant returns on the global amount of damage taken per second, while haste as increasing returns. 1% hast can add between 1 and 4 damage depending on haste. 1% pdt always removes 1 dmg. It is THAT simple.

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Originally Posted by MarkovChain

You don't know what increasing returns means rog. What you are saying is that it has increasing returns on the % reduction of the damage you are taking, which is ALOT different than saying it has increasing returns on the global of amount of damage you are taking.

Extreme exemple

I'm at 1 damage taken per hit with 40% pdt and I equip defending ring. I'm now getting hit for zero. This equals to -100% damage taken. But I'm still taking -1 damage per second campared to 40% pdt.

I'm at 4 damage taken per hit with 0% pdt and I equip defending ring. I'm now getting hit for 3. This equals to -33% damage taken. But I'm still taking -1 damage per second campared to 0% pdt.

In both cases the aboslue damage taken is a constante increase (1 damg per second)

For haste it's different. Haste increases the amount of damage (not the %) dealt depending on you base haste :

If you deal 100 damage per second with zero% haste, adding 1% haste adds 1.01 damage per second

If you deal 100 damage per second with zero% haste, adding 50% haste adds 100 damage per second

If you deal 100 damage per second with zero% haste, adding 51% haste adds 104.08 damage per second

As you see pdt as constant return on the global amount of damage taken per second, while haste as increasing returns. 1% hast can add between 1 and 4 damage depending on haste. 1% pdt always removes 1 dmg.

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With 0% pdt i take 1000 damage per second.

with 1% pdt i take 990 per second (1% less than with 0%).

With 99% pdt i take 10 damage per second.

With 100% pdt, i take 0 damage per second (INFINITY GODDAMN PERCENT less than with 99%).

Increasing returns. QED.

So guys, does Double Attack have static or decreasing returns?

While we're at it, is Adaman Hauberk Blue or Purple?

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Originally Posted by rog

With 0% pdt i take 1000 damage per second.

with 1% pdt i take 990 per second (1% less than with 0%).

With 99% pdt i take 10 damage per second.

With 100% pdt, i take 0 damage per second (INFINITY GODDAMN PERCENT less than with 99%).

Increasing returns. QED.

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Each time you add 1% pdt you decrease the same amount. It's called "constant" return. www

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Originally Posted by MarkovChain

Each time you add 1% pdt you decrease the same amount. It's called "constant" return. www

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Each time you add 1% haste you decrease delay by the same amount.

Going from 98->99% haste doubles damage.

Going from 98->99% pdt halves damage taken.

Not sure how they are not exactly the same.

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Originally Posted by rog

Each time you add 1% haste you decrease delay by the same amount.

Going from 98->99% haste doubles damage.

Going from 98->99% pdt halves damage taken.

Not sure how they are not exactly the same.

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Correct. It's seems you are progressively understanding what we are talking about. Haste has constant returns on delay but increasing returns on damage per second. Final Fantasy 101.