Make the Relic and Empyrean WSs Questable

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Originally Posted by Denabond

If the quest required you to get the WoE or Emp weapon to begin with, there really isnt a easy mode to begin with, since they will have to put in the time and effort to get those weapons. While the WoE weapons aren't as hard to get as Emp weapons, they are still superior to everything else cause they will still have the stat bonuses and AM. And as for why I want to quest instead of just using the weapon, its to even out the difference in power between the relic and emp weapons, and so if they release a weapon later on that's is like relic/mythic/emp (in which they will probably do) I can still use the WS i worked so hard for on another weapon.

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if you went this route, you would totally rid of the use of woe weapons to begin with. they have a niche right now because they provide exactly what you are asking for. if you could use ukkos with a widowmaker, we would have a problem, since widowmaker >>>>> maschu+2.

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Originally Posted by Andylynn

if you went this route, you would totally rid of the use of woe weapons to begin with. they have a niche right now because they provide exactly what you are asking for. if you could use ukkos with a widowmaker, we would have a problem, since widowmaker >>>>> maschu+2.

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I don't think SE has a problem outdating weapons.. or putting useless weapons into the game for that matter..

like take say Horrent Mace... why in the world is that even in the game >_>

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Originally Posted by Flunklesnarkin

I don't think SE has a problem outdating weapons.. or putting useless weapons into the game for that matter..

like take say Horrent Mace... why in the world is that even in the game >_>

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if they did, they wouldn't have made the announcement theyre beefing relics and mythics. they apparently care about the end game content enough to not funk it up without repairing it.

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Originally Posted by Andylynn

if you went this route, you would totally rid of the use of woe weapons to begin with. they have a niche right now because they provide exactly what you are asking for. if you could use ukkos with a widowmaker, we would have a problem, since widowmaker >>>>> maschu+2.

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But in order to use Ukkos with a Widowmaker, they would still have to get a Maschu to begin with (or a emp Great Axe). The time invested into Maschu isn't wasted. After getting the Maschu+2, have then do some crazy hard quest so they can learn it permanently. But if you feel that strongly about it, SE can just simply make it so that you NEED to get the emp weapon to learn it then. That way, Maschu+2 would still be used by the ppl who don't want to invest in the time and effort into getting both the emp and the quest.

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Originally Posted by Denabond

But in order to use Ukkos with a Widowmaker, they would still have to get a Maschu to begin with (or a emp Great Axe). The time invested into Maschu isn't wasted. After getting the Maschu+2, have then do some crazy hard quest so they can learn it permanently. But if you feel that strongly about it, SE can just simply make it so that you NEED to get the emp weapon to learn it then. That way, Maschu+2 would still be used by the ppl who don't want to invest in the time and effort into getting both the emp and the quest.

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Why would I want to use Victory Smite with anything but my Verethragna? As has already been mentioned a few dozen times, the quest for the Empyrean WS already exists. It's the WoE path. All in all the damn thing's easier to build than a STR weapon, so as far as I can tell the only people who ought to be complaining are the ones who built the wrong path and don't want to go redo a superior weapon.

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Originally Posted by Seriha

Not everyone has dual-boxes or people they can reliably weasel into spending hours upon hours for an individual person's benefit. [.....]

It is, by no means, an insinuation that the Empyrean weapons themselves should fall behind so all the cool kids can still keep their snowflake status.

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I will never understand the rampant hostility towards players who get things done. I have an Empyrean Weapon, heck my trio is finishing its third weapon (after helping another friend get his Masamune), and then I'll be on my second Empyrean weapon. That's not because I dualboxed or weaseled people into helping me with shit. I just have friends. You know, friends. Those things that people seem to think are exclusive to casual players. I have friends who I've known for over half a decade, who I've been in multiple shells with, some of which I've gone out to lunch with, who are actually fairly good at FFXI.

That's pretty much all it takes to get multiple Empyreans. I don't need to pay them, or barter things with them, or con them into coming out. We took turns getting weapons because we're friends, not because we need to be under contract in order to work for someone else's gain. This is how it works for most people I know with Empyreans. I'm really tired of this dead-wrong perception of Endgame players. We are people too, we play video games too, we have friends too, and we don't need to bot, cheat, hack, lie, or steal to be good at FFXI.

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Originally Posted by Greatguardian

Why would I want to use Victory Smite with anything but my Verethragna? As has already been mentioned a few dozen times, the quest for the Empyrean WS already exists. It's the WoE path. All in all the damn thing's easier to build than a STR weapon, so as far as I can tell the only people who ought to be complaining are the ones who built the wrong path and don't want to go redo a superior weapon.

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Lets say you spent the time to get both the Relic and Emp weapons (in this case both Spharai and Verethragna). You technically have both WSs, but your limited to using that weapon to use that WS. Id like to be able to use both Final Heaven and Victory Smite on either of those weapons, not limited to being forced to use a certain one. Of course this isn't exactly a good comparison since nobody cares for Final Heaven. But what if in the future they release a 4th set of weapons? I'd like to be able to use Emp WSs with those weapons if at all possible, even if I lose out on the aftermath effect. Emp weapons will be outclassed eventually. Id just like to be able to carry over some of its usefulness to the next set of weapons instead of just tossing it.

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Originally Posted by Denabond

Lets say you spent the time to get both the Relic and Emp weapons (in this case both Spharai and Verethragna). You technically have both WSs, but your limited to using that weapon to use that WS. Id like to be able to use both Final Heaven and Victory Smite on either of those weapons, not limited to being forced to use a certain one. Of course this isn't exactly a good comparison since nobody cares for Final Heaven. But what if in the future they release a 4th set of weapons? I'd like to be able to use Emp WSs with those weapons if at all possible, even if I lose out on the aftermath effect. Emp weapons will be outclassed eventually. Id just like to be able to carry over some of its usefulness to the next set of weapons instead of just tossing it.

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I can't think of a single Relic WS worth using with an Empyrean on-hand. Even then, so what if you have both weapons? Unique weapons have unique skills attached. When you use that weapon, you get that weapon's skill. I don't need Victory Smite on Spharai or Final Heaven on Verethragna.

If they release a new set of weapons, they'll either have a new weapon skill on them which trumps Smite, or they won't. I highly doubt Verethragna (99) will lose so badly to FalconPunch (99) that it would be worth ditching Aftermath bonuses and using FalconPunch (99) with Victory Smite. Either way, it's a huge "What if" anyways. As the game stands right now, there is no need to make Empyrean WS native to their applicable jobs. There is already a quest to obtain the WS in the game, and it's not hard.

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Originally Posted by Denabond

Lets say you spent the time to get both the Relic and Emp weapons (in this case both Spharai and Verethragna). You technically have both WSs, but your limited to using that weapon to use that WS. Id like to be able to use both Final Heaven and Victory Smite on either of those weapons, not limited to being forced to use a certain one. Of course this isn't exactly a good comparison since nobody cares for Final Heaven. But what if in the future they release a 4th set of weapons? I'd like to be able to use Emp WSs with those weapons if at all possible, even if I lose out on the aftermath effect. Emp weapons will be outclassed eventually. Id just like to be able to carry over some of its usefulness to the next set of weapons instead of just tossing it.

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what i'd like to know is, why would you want the ws to be unlocked for any weapon after getting the original empy/woe/relic weapon. empyrean/relic weapons base damage and aftermath transcend most other weapons to begin with.

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Originally Posted by Denabond

Quite possibly the easiest way to stop all of the problems Relic/Mythic/Empyrean weapons is to simply make both Relic and Empyrean WSs questable, but leaveing the Aftermath linked to the specific weapon. In all the threads that have ppl complain about fixing these 3 weapons, this idea was never mentioned. Mythic is already questable, so why not the other 2 as well? Honestly, the only real weapons that need a buff is Mythic since most are seen as useless.

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The easiest method is often the worst.

The problem with this idea is that many easily obtained 'vanilla' version of the respective weapons example bow, gun, great axe, are comparable to relics in damage and often have other plusses like higher tp gain. Letting them get relic WS simply makes the value of the relics drop even further. Yoichi and Anni have no purpose and the effort to get them is worthless. Amano, Apoc similarly.

Your answer is "give everything" to everyone to solve the problem. The problem is NOT that everyone dioes not have these. It's that the relics and mythics too tremendous effort that has been devalued by empyreans.

What needs to happen is to do something like this:

1) drastically upgrade relic/mythics damage and /or bonuses OR
2) give empyrean WS to relics/mythics owners OR
3) improve relic/mythics exclusive WS to make them on PAR with empyreans (in some cases the WS will need drastic improvement like Final Heaven or Metsu, to mention only 2)

Depending on how these are done any one of these three might be a strong step forward.

Giving everything to everyone is simply a way of saying: all the work you did is next to worthless now.

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Originally Posted by Greatguardian

I will never understand the rampant hostility towards players who get things done. I have an Empyrean Weapon, heck my trio is finishing its third weapon (after helping another friend get his Masamune), and then I'll be on my second Empyrean weapon. That's not because I dualboxed or weaseled people into helping me with shit. I just have friends. You know, friends. Those things that people seem to think are exclusive to casual players. I have friends who I've known for over half a decade, who I've been in multiple shells with, some of which I've gone out to lunch with, who are actually fairly good at FFXI.

That's pretty much all it takes to get multiple Empyreans. I don't need to pay them, or barter things with them, or con them into coming out. We took turns getting weapons because we're friends, not because we need to be under contract in order to work for someone else's gain. This is how it works for most people I know with Empyreans. I'm really tired of this dead-wrong perception of Endgame players. We are people too, we play video games too, we have friends too, and we don't need to bot, cheat, hack, lie, or steal to be good at FFXI.

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This is completely correct.