Trials of the Magians and casual players.

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Originally Posted by Sarick

Advice or what? You said everything quoted above just click the little blue icons beside your name in the quotes they links to the exact post where the quotes where taken from. You can see I did reread everything. I know exactly what your disposition is.

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Herp-a-derp I'll play along.

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Originally Posted by Zagen

I'm sorry are you all the way up to date on the previous stuff already? I mean if you are then how aren't you able to clear the new stuff. Did you miss the part where I mentioned the group I did the matamata with was compromised of people who are far from "well geared" (far from caught up). It really just takes some research, planning, and getting people together to get the new content done it isn't actually that hard. Everyday it gets less hard as those hardcore players figure out how exactly the new gimmicks work and they aren't even jerks about it they make their knowledge free for all to read.

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Read the bold, that's advice on how to complete literally everything in the game when you aren't trying to be a trail blazer. Here's some links to help with the research:
BG-Wiki - Most up to date confirmed data on monsters.
Gamer Escape FFXI Wiki - Not as up to date as BG Wiki but still has a lot of good info in a different layout.
FFXI Wikia - Too many ads for my personal taste and needless redirects but again filled with good info, sometimes more up to date than Gamer Escape but still behind BG Wiki.

Let's actually look at the whole quote for the next 2 you chose to pick apart:

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Originally Posted by Zagen

Ok new set of steps for those who don't believe in "the ends justify the means" type of logic.

Step 1: Stay on whatever job you want.
Step 2: Research T4/5 Delve NMs (lots of info already out there about the gimmicks and setups on how to take them down).
Step 3: Shout for a group based on research done in Step 2.
Step 4: Go fight said monster for the relevant KI.
Step 5: Research Delve Fracture farming (not much to learn pretty much merit style fighting with a PLD or 2 holding NMs.
Step 6: Build your Delve Weapons.

Congrats you now have the new time sink weapons that are even easier to make than TotM because you don't have to wait for NMs to spawn/respawn (yay pop/instance NMs for the KIs), you don't have to wait for the right time of day (in game), and you definitely don't have to wait for the right of the year (in game) to ensure plentiful weather you want. Don't even have to kill hundreds to thousands of monsters as you could in theory just by all your airlixirs/plasm (via eating pop items).

Repeat the steps above with T1,2, or 3 Delve NMs and you'll also unlock the Delve armors.

The game is broken because people who don't want to conform to the player established "cookie cutter" setups are too damn lazy to lead so they avoid conformity and increase diversity.

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Read the bold.

Another of my posts where advice on alternative ways to get new stuff acquired/done:

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Originally Posted by Zagen

...5 is by far the easiest to do if you're smart about it. What that means is that while a SMN could walk away from a reive with 3-4k Bayld (my lol SMN has done this clearing paths for Delve) it makes more sense to do the Coalition quests. For example Mummer's Coalition starter mission is collect a Lost Article KI from Ceizak Battlegrounds or Yahse Hunting Grounds. All you do is find the Lost Article NPC target (not on wide scan that i recall), touch it, and you have the KI. Then turn it in for 1,500/2,700/3,800 Bayld depending on how many tags you chose when you picked the mission. Also many quests reward you with Bayld for example the 2 quests involving every waypoint in each of the Adoulin zones...

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As you said feel free to click the view post link as there's actually a bit more advice in that post. And post was in response to comments on my original post with a list of progression of how I see it. Not just new content but old content as well, see here:

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Originally Posted by Zagen

Okay so it looks like we are in agreement to a degree when it comes to the progress, now here's how I see it:

1) Abyssea Cruor Gear, TotM Elemental/WS paths, and 75 content gear (sky/sea/af/relic/etc.)
2) Emp armor/weapons
3) VW armor and weapons (I guess imo weapons are too situational)
4) Neo Salvage/Limbus
5) Bayld Peacekeeper gear
6) Neo Nyzul
7) SoA Craftables
8) Wildskeeper armor/weapons
9) Delve Plasm armor/weapons
10) Delve Boss armor/weapons

Now some can be skipped/ignored/done in different order whatever you want to call it but I mean if you as a player see there is an order of progression as existing and you're at step 1 why should you expect to compete with players at step 6-9 before getting closer to that point?

I understand at one point SE said TotM would always remain relevant but they also said BST would get the pet with the most votes when asked about new pets or how SMN were supposed to get new Avatars over a year ago. SE never goes back on their word nope not ever.

As to new players not staying that's simple, the MMORPG model "pay 2 play" is dead. WoW is feeling it and Blizzard has already admitted they expect to keep losing players. I sure hope 14 is prepared to switch models but that's a whole other topic all together.

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Note the bold, I even mention some parts can be skipped or done in different order meaning there isn't a way that must be followed, just more of a suggested route.

Now here's something interesting instead of failing to prove me a liar how about you put some thought into questions I brought as you're one of the "casual" players so you'd be the best to give the answers, here I trimmed down to just the questions but you can read the whole post again by clicking the view post link :)

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Originally Posted by Zagen

How does a system that requires set times when it can be done actually benefit the type of player with limited play time?

If you're expecting or wanting it to just be something lame like collecting X items then why not be up front and say that?

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Originally Posted by Zagen

Now here's something interesting instead of failing to prove me a liar how about you put some thought into questions I brought as you're one of the "casual" players so you'd be the best to give the answers, here I trimmed down to just the questions but you can read the whole post again by clicking the view post link :)

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The only thing you done is re-post "do this content" and followed up with listed a strategies. For the love of god did everything I say go woosh? You're practicing some serious selective reading or just plain ignoring the topic of interest entirely. The whole point is the lack of diversity that trials offered.

The original poster as that trails get updated and rebalanced. Your logic is dead set on trying to get people to conform. People want the trials to be relevant. You're not open supporting this.

You are unconsciously saying "NO, I DON'T WANT THEM TO UPDATE OLD CONTENT PEOPLE NEED TO BE LIKE EVERYONE ELSE AND PLAY NEW CONTENT." It has nothing to do with casual interest or the goals of this topic. I've provided proof of this by linking multiple quotes.

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Originally Posted by Sarick

The only thing you done is re-post "do this content" and followed up with listed a strategies. For the love of god did everything I say go woosh? You're practicing some serious selective reading or just plain ignoring the topic of interest entirely. The whole point is the lack of diversity that trials offered.

The original poster as that trails get updated and rebalanced. Your logic is dead set on trying to get people to conform. People want the trials to be relevant. You're not open supporting this.

You are unconsciously saying "NO, I DON'T WANT THEM TO UPDATE OLD CONTENT PEOPLE NEED TO BE LIKE EVERYONE ELSE AND PLAY NEW CONTENT." It has nothing to do with casual interest or the goals of this topic. I've provided proof of this by linking multiple quotes.

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The thing is that old content is still 100% relevant for it's phase in a player's progression, just like how weapons/armor from 30-75 is still relevant should a player fancy EXPing outside of Abyssea.

So again:

1. How does a system that requires set times when it can be done actually benefit the type of player with limited play time?
2. If you're expecting or wanting it to just be something lame like collecting X items then why not be up front and say that?

These questions pertain to the OP's logic of TotM being great for casual players. Answer them as that's the only way you'd be able to enlighten me. Anyone who finds themselves to fit this "casual" player feel free to answer. I'll even go first even though I don't consider myself casual:

1) It doesn't outside of the Weapon Skill paths or until you get to the current final 3 stages of collecting Geodes/_ites as you can farm to make gil and buy them removing the day/weather requirement from those stages.

2) If these were to be further upgraded to match new weapons then I would expect them to require killing unique monsters in SoA zones. Why? Because there is no reason to facilitate making a player even more over powered when taking on old content that was designed to be taken on without SoA weapons/armor.

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Originally Posted by Zagen

The thing is that old content is still 100% relevant for it's phase in a player's progression, just like how weapons/armor from 30-75 is still relevant should a player fancy EXPing outside of Abyssea.

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So if they're still relevant why is the developer creating new content? Why there was such a big fuss over RME content being made inferior.

Oh I get it. You don't want the developers to update content like trials because it'll take resources from the unfinished content in SoA that was rushed out.

When the game was updated old content was always relevant. In fact as new level cap limit breakers where increased trials followed. Not the case with the SoA expansion yet as trials are going nowhere. New content is isn't for everyone no matter how you spiel your knowledge.

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Originally Posted by Sarick

So if they're still relevant why is the developer creating new content? Why there was such a big fuss over RME content being made inferior.

Oh I get it. You don't want the developers to update content like trials because it'll take resources from the unfinished content in SoA that was rushed out.

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Trial weapons and RMEs are not the same thing, the level of dedication and work to make them is on a completely different level, that is why they are treated differently. If Trial weapons took the same amount of work and time to make then I would be saying the same thing, a lot of jobs are losing very valuable weapons from these being left behind, nuking staves are being outdated, PDT weapons are being outdated, Pet weapons in general are being outdated for the most part. Do I want them enhanced? Yes, personally I would love it if my PDT Sword for RDM did not go in the trash, at the same time, I understand what SE is trying to do and why your argument you just gave is flawed.

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When the game was updated old content was always relevant. In fact as new level cap limit breakers where increased trailed followed. Not the case with the SoA expansion yet as trials are going nowhere. New content is isn't for everyone no matter how you spiel your knowledge.

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Your right, its not for everyone, its for everyone willing to work to get there. Its a latter to climb, SE has made it clear they expect us to climb their latter, some people will skip around, doing things like Delve without touching Adoulin Armors or Skirmish weapons, I myself have done it! Others who are less skilled, have less time, are overall not as well geared or simply can not get a good group together, they have to climb it in a slower manner. The expansion is not meant for everyone to just jump right into, it was made for people to progress into, if you have not done enough other content you will make it nowhere, if you have, you can advance through the easier stuff to get to the harder stuff. He has explained this to you a few times now it seems, but you are refusing to listen, the content was not designed for you to just jump right into Delve, it was made so you did other content to get strong enough to do it. Everything before is still relevant because its all stepping stones to reach Delve and other Adoulin content. Is it the best anymore? No, does some of it take a bit of time? Yes, but the matter of fact is that it is a stepping stone, and comparing trials to RMEs in this case does not work because a trial weapon for a hardcore player takes less than a week, sometimes as low as a couple of days, while a RME will take anywhere between a week(Emp) to 2~3 Months(Relic) or even 6+ Months(Mythic) which is much more time. Weapons that take that long can not be stepping stones, other weapons can be, and something has to be, basic ToM weapons simply fit the spot, and so far as stepping stones go, they are probably the best.

No the content wasn't designed for me it's supposed to be designed for everyone. If everyone can't play it in a way that's enjoyable to them then they've failed in the SoA expansion from the start. There is more then enough support around here that says the original poster made a suggestion worth investment. You don't get it, you never will get it.

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Originally Posted by Sarick

No the content wasn't designed for me it's supposed to be designed for everyone. If everyone can't play it in a way that's enjoyable to them then they've failed in the SoA expansion from the start. There is more then enough support around here that says the original poster made a suggestion worth investment. You don't get it, you never will get it.

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I guess you missed the part when SE announced SoA, that it was intended for end game players...

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Originally Posted by Zagen

I guess you missed the part when SE announced SoA, that it was intended for end game players...

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So then updated trials would be the perfect medicine this game needs. The statement you just made sums up the need for more casual/alternate content. You just admitted this content isn't for everyone by both your standards and SE's. Your comment only solidifies what I said in Post #66

Demonjustin: the first sentence responds to your post as well.

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Originally Posted by Sarick

So then updated trials would be the perfect medicine this game needs. The statement you just made sums up the need for more casual/alternate content. You just admitted this content isn't for everyone by both your standards and SE's. Your comment only solidifies what I said in Post #66

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Actually no it doesn't. Right or wrong that's the way SE decided to make with SoA.

If you aren't ready to take on SoA content why aren't you working on the older content that gives you gear to help make you ready for SoA content? TotM don't need to be updated to take on that content.

You still haven't tried to answer my questions by the way.

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Originally Posted by Zagen

Actually no it doesn't. Right or wrong that's the way SE decided to make with SoA.

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Flawed logic is always flawed. It's still play hardcore for pixels or GTFO. That's why people want alternatives its about keeping all content relevant. In your view the ends justifies the means for one short sided view of only participate SoA content. So How about this maybe the developers should just remove all the old content altogether that's 75+ except SoA content.

If you look recently merits where upgraded. Merits affect all content across the board. Merits where introduced when players capped at 75 think about how they've grown with the game. The Mog bag has grown to 80/80 and more inventory has been added each expansion. Several game play elements have been upgraded al of which where introduced with older content. The game needs to grow as a whole not just the singled out expansion.

Look at the game like grades in school if you have 10 assignments each representing expansion content SOA now amounts to over 90% of the games overall appeal (grade) the other 10% of the content is on the brink of a failing grade. The steps available aren't diverse and most of the content is rotting because poor implementation. It's been like this a while its it's a key factor in a failing project.

It shows that the game is gasping for it's last breath to TRY it's hardest to appeal to whats left of it's dieing content. You know how stocks always rise just before the market crashes. People with inside information sell before the crash. If they wanted to keep people happy they'd make everything as diverse as possible to broaden the interest of everyone across the board not just create one direction. This is how investors protect themselves by diversifying their portfolios.

Again. You don't get it. Read this post the author explains things in a different way.