Final Fantasy Vana'Diel Collection 3! (Now with Epic Items~)

This pisses me off as well, if they were going to do this I would rather them do it with when you buy the beret as a physical item much like they did with the Tidal Talisman. That way I could be paying for something (somewhat) cool IRL and get a bonus in game item... rather than have to buy a new set of install discs to get an item to help my lowbie jobs... that is 20 bucks I will *NOT* be wasting

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Originally Posted by erevan

Like maybe those 3 little monsters off the side of the airship?

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I'm cool with that!

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Originally Posted by Pagronith

stuff

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Sure, it's not really unethical, but that doesn't mean existing players can't be dissatisfied when a representative says "you already bought this product, but if you buy it again, you can also get this item!"

It's also worth noting that because this is a virtual item, it doesn't actually cost anything at all for the company to make it available to more people.

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Originally Posted by bungiefan

Except with that example, many retail stores have a return/exchange window. Many stores I shop at have protection against that, where if it goes on sale within 14 days of your purchase, you can exchange the item for itself and they refund you the difference in price.

This, they're telling us, thanks for buying the game at full price, now we're going to give our new customers something extra plus the game at a discount, and you have to pay a total of even more if you want that bonus. They're punishing us for buying the full product early.

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Yes, I'm certain that was their reasoning when they decided to go ahead with this item. Lex Luthor, Sage Sundi, and Snidely Whiplash all sat around a table and spent a whole night trying to figure out how they could make you angry.

Or perhaps it was an item that was designed to lend a helping hand to any new players who happen to see the game in the store and decide to pick it up and give it a try. How old is this game now? Feels like I've been playing it for 20 years now. But starting out as a complete newb, you have nothing to offer to anyone who could actually help you out. The beret helps to bridge the gap to the point where you could at least stand a chance getting lucky and leeching exp out of abyssea.

Myself, I would get nothing out of this hat since a few years back my friend and I duo'd all our jobs above 37, but I could see where it would be useful to people who still have a job below level 30. A job below level 30 that they intend to level still. A job below level 30 that they intend to level still and don't have a friend who could help powerlevel them.

But hey, if you don't want fresh blood joining the game and getting an enjoyable enough experience that they might stick around long enough to reach the endgame, you're completely entitled to your opinion. My opinion is that SE is trying to do the right thing in the wrong way. I forgive them however because they're in too much of a hurry to re-implement all the content in the game designed for level 30 and below. They have lots of endgame content to finish implementing for me to enjoy, so I appreciate they didn't waste too much time on making gameplay feasible for new players.

Oh yeah, they also probably figured they could make a few bucks off the random long-time player who simply buys things to collect. But I really don't see much use for this beret for any serious endgamers. Sure you could argue that they should be giving this item to EVERYONE and they can determine whether or not it's useful or just a waste of space, but there are lots of factors you need to consider. Not only does a newb not have any ingame friends to help them (you probably do), they don't know what a freaking weaponskill is or how they use it. They probably think they have to run all the way back to their mog house to restore their MP. They don't know how to mine for fish. Getting started in abyssea at this point with no atma, no abyssite, none of the gear is a hellish experience for someone who's completely new to the game. They need a leg up, you don't.

As for the money, most wares depreciate in value over time. Expansions are wares.

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Originally Posted by Pagronith

First off, I don't really care about the item and think the whole situation ...customers.

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I actually find this whole issue pretty interesting on an academic level. In undergraduate experimental psych, on of my areas was consumer manipulation. Image and belief plays a large part in the success of any product. Probably my favorite experiment involved getting people to believe advertizing over their own senses. It's fairly easy to manipulate people. Especially those who are loyal to a brand (political parties are the best example).

Anyway, your points are valid and, to an extent, analogous. And, I would assume that S/E contemplated the cost-benefit before they moved forward with this in this fasion. Now, the only difference between the cable company and this promotion is that the premium channels have an ongoing cost. As, opposed to this in-game item which has a one-time cost to S/E, primarily the hours they paid for someone to design and code it. With the premium channels, and perhaps you could enlighten me, for these promotion periods, I'm guessing that somewhere up the food chain, the studios or the channels themselves, may be waiving some or any of the costs to the cable company. Or, the cable company is eating the entire costs of the content in the hopes of people continuing the service after the trial. Thus, the premium content is never free. It is always costing someone in the chain something. As opposed to the item S/E paid for and can replicate as many times as it wishes at no further cost.

Now, for most business, if you had an item that costs you the same for 1 or 100,000, you most likely would give it as an incentive to new customers. And, to current customers as a loyalty builder. However, you figure that this item can generate revenue because it is attractive to old customers and some will want the item enough to pay for it. Even to the point of buying something they already bought from you and really don't need to buy again. Undoubtedly, you know that asking customers to buy something a second time, especially if they don't need the original item a second time, just to get the new item will make some of them angry. You also know that it will lessen loyalty to your brand. However, if that item costs you lots to create the first time, that could be part of your equation in the calculations.

Now S/E has the advantage of being the only provider of FFXI. There is no where else you can get it. Add to that, that some people are literally addicted to the product. There are some customers so addicted that S/E could do just about anything to them and they will still continue to pay S/E to play. They may hate themselves and S/E. But they will still continue to pay to play.

Now, since we know this item is a one time cost to S/E, unless they have a royalty arrangement with the designer (I highly doubt this since most companies have written agreements that anything created on their clock belongs to them), to provide all customers, whether new or old creates no extra expense for S/E. So, it's pretty obvious that S/E went with option two: Attempt to generate revenue from old customers with an item that costs you nothing. And, of course all the benefits and negatives that come along with it.

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Originally Posted by Zyeriis

Pathetic non-related argument about an item I didn't buy, even though it was amazing. Just because you don't value your money highly enough doesn't mean other more sensible people are the same. Like I said, not going to argue with naivety. I'm not trying to convince you, so stop trying to convince me of something that stupid? I have every right to be mad about this obvious ploy to get more money out of people who already purchased everything. This isn't going to change, nor is the fact that they are wronging us.

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Not to belittle your stance, but you're mad at a company from a country where it is common practice to re-release something with one or two extras like stickers or a little model of one of the characters, or maybe an added extra character but little else changed in-game. Granted, they have to get creative for an MMO like FFXI, but the business model is there.

Now whether they're using this as a way to make money to feed FFXIV is another story, and since I can't read their VP of marketing's mind, I can neither confirm or deny that claim.

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Originally Posted by Duelle

Now whether they're using this as a way to make money to feed FFXIV is another story, and since I can't read their VP of marketing's mind, I can neither confirm or deny that claim.

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Yeah, that would pretty much be BS. Now, they may be siphoning off FFXI's profits to help feed FXIV if it's losing money. But, I can't imagine that any business decisions around a single FFXI release would be controlled by the relationship between the two games. Now, it would be realistic if every part of S/E was told to tighten their belts and find extra sources of revenue until XIV becomes profitable. But, again, I have a hard time with the thought someone said "XIV needs money. Put that hat with the collection bundle. Then, send all proceeds from anyone who bought each expansion/add-on separately and then bought the collection to XIV."

I'd like to see what SE's reaction to all this is. The hat is only for looks for someone like me, and yea, I want it but I wouldn't be willing to buy the collection again to do it, especially since I've already bought it for 4 characters.

I knew they would eventually release a cheaper all in one pack for abyssea and that does not bother me in the slightest. It does kinda bother me that they would add an item to it that I would have to repurchase to get.

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Originally Posted by Karbuncle

I See where you're coming from, but i think I'll try to explain this better. I suck with words so bare with me. FFXI isn't an IPOD. The difference between (Using your example) Buying something, and then it going on sale later... Its not a big deal.

However, If that said something went on sale for 5x Cheaper, then suddenly came with a 1-of-a-kind-Exclusive Iphone Ap or something that was the best AP to use for your Iphone, there would be hell and riot. Its kinda how When the Iphone was first released, a bunch of people bought it, the like, 2weeks later it went on sale for like 100$ less, and then a Shit storm, Apple gave people who bought Iphone a gift card or something.

If this was just a "Hey, Everything is cheaper" Sale no one would care, like the other 80 Vana'Collections. But this one comes now with an in-Game item that is the sole greatest item available for 1-30. So its kinda like, Yah... we definitely aren't entitled to it, But it just seems kinda like a kick in the nuts.

To try and make a better Example, Imagine a new game is released, You buy it for 60$, You enjoy the game, a Few Weeks later it goes on sale for 20$, and now it comes with a 1-of-a-kind In-game Weapon/item/armor that you can only get through buying it again. You'd probably think "Well fuck"

I'm sure it'd be less complaining, Or you probably wouldn't care, but as a general practice it'd feel like a kick in the nuts to people who just bought the game.

I Can't really find a way to word my thoughts adequately, :| I hope you don't take this as an attack on you, I'm just trying to show you where these people are coming from. I certainly don't feel entitled to anything, but I feel for the people who are on the side of the argument that want the item.

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The hat isn't an end-all item, though. In your example the app on the iPhone is the "best App" and in this case.. The hat isn't. It's only good up until level 30, and.. well, did you notice how they're removing the exp loss up to level 30? SE is treating 1-30 as the new 1-10 range. (Which makes sense, considering the level cap increase and exp changes.) This is something I think a lot of people are neglecting to realize, or rather it's a transition that isn't easy for people to process. (We're all admittedly very used to the way things have been for a good many years..)

What I'm trying to say here is, the hat isn't that valuable, and it's not really worth losing sleep over. A better comparison would be some kind of exclusive and thorough and initiative tutorial added the iPhone, something that the end-user could benefit from when they start out using their new device - but that which eventually becomes useless. The hat is the same, it's a nice kickstart, helps people get their bearings, but it's utterly worthless after a certain point.

My example of 1-30 being the new 1-10 is also very important to take into consideration here.. It's no coincidence they made the hat in this range and are releasing it just as the exp loss is removed in that range. These were probably planned to go hand and hand together for a long while now. 1-30 with the exp change is also pretty darn fast, it takes longer than 1-10 did in the old days, yea, but it's a lot faster than 1-30 was in the old days..

Also, what does the hat do exactly? Reraise, Refresh, Regen.. Can already get all of these from FoV. The skill bonus is nice, but are you terribly likely not to be capped on your skills pre-30 anyway? That really just leaves the movement speed bonus, which is pretty unique to be certain.. Though we can accomplish this at level 1 already just using something like Sprinter's Shoes. (Albeit, it's not a constant effect and costs charges, but you see where I'm going with this.)

The hat is awesome, this is true. This is why I want it. But it is not the best thing ever, and it's not worth getting upset over in my opinion. Quite a few long-time players (loyal fans playing from day one) probably won't even have jobs low enough (like yourself) to take advantage of it. And even those who can.. So what? 1-30 is the new 1-10 coming next patch, even if you're the worst player ever and die at every turn.. you'll still get 30 without much else in the way of slowing you down.

Also as far as the exclusive items go with games.. This happens all the time these days. Retailers like Amazon and GameStop ship unique DLC with them depending on who you order with. SE themselves did this with FFXIV too, the regular version came with a pair of Goggles, the Collectors Edition had a Helmet. These were mutually exclusive, and you had to buy the game twice if you wanted both. (Likewise, a bonus item came with FFXIII for the game, and ANOTHER item came with having an active FFXI subscription.) This is actually a very common practice.. All of these things are also generally aesthetic or very finite in their usefulness. (They aren't good forever, or they're only visually appealing.)

Anyway.. In the case of exclusive DLC depending on where you buy a game.. In those cases you end up in a situation where you need to buy the game at full retail price more than once for the stuff, or you do without. In this case with the hat, you can buy the full game at an incredible discount and get the hat. I would also add that the CM mentioned the reward code was separate from the registration code.. Meaning you could buy it, get your hat, and then sell the registration code to someone who wanted it. (For an alt account or whatever else.)

Oh and no, I don't take any of this as a personal attack. If anything you are one of the most constructive members on this forum and I respect you for that.

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Originally Posted by Misi

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Originally Posted by erevan

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Originally Posted by Misi

Prishe statue : She better be drop-kicking something.

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Like maybe those 3 little monsters off the side of the airship?

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I'm cool with that!

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Who wouldn't be? They're almost as annoying as Prishe herself. Now we just need a statue of Tenzen cutting Prishe in half and Vana'diel will be a less annoying place again.

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Originally Posted by Yinnyth

Yes, I'm certain that was their reasoning when they decided to go ahead with this item. Lex Luthor, Sage Sundi, and Snidely Whiplash all sat around a table and spent a whole night trying to figure out how they could make you angry.

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Almost. They tried to figure out how to milk you for more money. And they succeeded and are gonna go ahead with it despite an angry crowd. The analogy is quite nice.

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Originally Posted by Krisan

The hat isn't an end-all item, though. [..]

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As I said before, it isn't at all about the value and usefulness of the item. It could be a bag of flaming chocobo poop, the concern would still be valid. It's about making any kind of ingame content, no matter what it is, only available through real money means. Is this immoral? Debatable. People aren't entitled to anything, but they could logically assume, that by paying the monthly fee, they don't get excluded from any game content, which is the case here. Even if it was a standalone item, not coming with a new collection, it would still be immoral in my opinion. How does a new collection that comes with it make it worse? Technically, it doesn't. But it masks SE's attempt at making money by shallowly tying it to something else, and as I said before, that sounds like a scam and is disrespectful to the userbase.

It was the same with the Tidal Talisman. I bought that, along with tons of other people. How many of them do you think still owned it after the first day? Do you think SE really expected that it was so popular and that they'd see FFXI fans walk the streets with their new bling? Why do you even think SE bundled it with a real item in the first place? Because it was always their policy to not make ingame content available through real life means. So they simply said that you aren't paying for the ingame item, but for the actual item, with the ingame item being a bonus. It still went against their policy, they knew it, the players knew it, people were annoyed by that move back then as well. Now they took it one step further, and masked it with a rather useless product, at least to a majority of people who will be buying it.

And to the people saying "other companies do something similar all the time", that is not an argument at all.

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It was the same with the Tidal Talisman. I bought that, along with tons of other people. How many of them do you think still owned it after the first day? Do you think SE really expected that it was so popular and that they'd see FFXI fans walk the streets with their new bling? Why do you even think SE bundled it with a real item in the first place? Because it was always their policy to not make ingame content available through real life means. So they simply said that you aren't paying for the ingame item, but for the actual item, with the ingame item being a bonus. It still went against their policy, they knew it, the players knew it, people were annoyed by that move back then as well. Now they took it one step further, and masked it with a rather useless product, at least to a majority of people who will be buying it.

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All Square truely care about is money, even more so currently. If they know people will buy the whole pack (and they will) just for some "ingame bling" they will do it, and indeed will do it more and more as they see how successfull a means it is to make money. If this bothers you, DO NOT BUY IT. That is the biggest message you can give, if everyone complains but it's a big financial success there will be alot more coming.

This aggravates me to know that an item that i can actually get use out of is something that i have to $20 to get. Even though I got all of the same expansions and add-ons, I don't get this item that can be very helpful to level jobs that are still low level. I still have many jobs below 30, including subs that I probably should have leveled. The reason why most of my jobs are below 30 is because its a pain to level to 30, especially now that everyone is busy with Abyssea and new content.

I have played this game for like 5 years on and off. I have I think 9 or 10 jobs leveled past 30, I haven't even unlocked a few jobs. I even have some subs i need to level that are below 30. So its not like i wouldn't benefit from this item by any means, and yet I would have to pay for an item that would greatly improve my ability to level half my jobs to a point in which i can at least leech. In order for to get an item like that I would have to pay for stuff i already bought for a higher price.

I know that this item is meant to be an incentive for new players, I'm all for giving new players this item. But for people like me, who could use this item, we totally *****ed over. This actually makes me want to dissuade my friends from playing this game if SE does stuff like this, I don't want my friends to be going through similar things in the future.

I guess at the end of the day SE can just do whatever they want, but I am highly dissatisfied with what they are doing to us. If they were giving us an equally good item for buying the expansions/add-ons when they came out it would be a different story, but they haven't said anything of the sort so I'm left to believe they just don't care enough about the existing community enough to do something like that.

SE if you do care enough at least give us, the existing and loyal community, something of equivalent value.

P.S.
Sorry for the long vent post.

Yeah, this is kind of a slap in the face to long time players who bought every add-on individually at $10 each. Everyone that has all 3 abyssea add-ons installed should be eligible to receive this item without having to buy a whole new collection for $20 more. I'm also pretty disappointed that they just announced this collection now. My dad bought the ultimate collection months ago in order to play with me, and it's been sitting there collecting dust because he can't create a new account on Siren until the merge. Now that he'll finally be able to start playing on the 10th here comes a new collection that he could've waited to buy had he known he wouldn't even be able to play when he bought the last one. I'm sorry SE, but I'm getting really fed up with you guys. Stuff like this compounded with your lack of good customer support and worthless GMs that I can't even get to talk to me without an automated message really pisses me off.

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Originally Posted by Arcon

Almost. They tried to figure out how to milk you for more money. And they succeeded and are gonna go ahead with it despite an angry crowd. The analogy is quite nice.

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Actually, if they wanted to milk me for money on this thing, they've failed. My jobs are all 37+ already. And I pity anyone who drops the 20 bucks for something they honestly won't get much use out of. I'm not trying to say SE isn't a money grubbing corporation. They are indeed a large company, and money grubbing is what all successful companies do.

But this is tame in comparison to what they could have done. If they wanted to, they could have put a code for a defending ring on the package which would be useful to anyone who already has a level 70+ job. But that's not what they did, they instead created a brand new item which was designed around giving brand new players a leg up. Imagine starting from scratch in ffxi today. You don't know how to get your SJ, there's no one around your level to party with, and no one you know is playing the game. Anyone in that situation really needs the help.

Everyone who posts on these forums, however, has been playing the game long enough that they could go from level 1-30 on 4 jobs without the beret in less time than a brand new player could go from 1-30 on 1 job WITH the beret. The item wasn't designed for you, so don't buy it. I'm certainly not going to.

Was there this much of an outcry when abyssea came out? Back before this announcement, every player had to shell out 30 bucks if they wanted access to the easiest exp for level 30+ jobs, the best gear in the game, and the easiest, most powerful weapons ever to see this virtual world. 30 bucks, or you don't get to take part in what has become 90% of gameplay. You have to sit around in DA and long for the good old days when you didn't have to pay money to get to endgame places like sky or sea or salvage.

Now that they've released an item for $20 which makes what has become less than 1% of gameplay substantially easier, THAT'S when they've gone too far?

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Originally Posted by Yinnyth

Was there this much of an outcry when abyssea came out? Back before this announcement, every player had to shell out 30 bucks if they wanted access to the easiest exp for level 30+ jobs, the best gear in the game, and the easiest, most powerful weapons ever to see this virtual world. 30 bucks, or you don't get to take part in what has become 90% of gameplay. You have to sit around in DA and long for the good old days when you didn't have to pay money to get to endgame places like sky or sea or salvage.

Now that they've released an item for $20 which makes what has become less than 1% of gameplay substantially easier, THAT'S when they've gone too far?

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Is there anything about your post that it is not a thinly veiled attempt to complain about the new content but instead actually part of the discussion? And, both Sea and Salvage required buying the expansions. The only free expansion was RoZ.

p.s. - Just in case I need to explain, you are saying "You didn't complain about Abyssea, but you complain about this hat." Meaning that Abyssea was bad but this is bad on a lesser scale. However, the two are not related at all. One completely changed game play (which a lot of people found positive) while another is an exclusive in-game item.

Totally fine with this, my gf wants to play anyways, she can use the Code to play the game and I can get the hat :D

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Originally Posted by Randwolf

Is there anything about your post that it is not a thinly veiled attempt to complain about the new content but instead actually part of the discussion? And, both Sea and Salvage required buying the expansions. The only free expansion was RoZ.

p.s. - Just in case I need to explain, you are saying "You didn't complain about Abyssea, but you complain about this hat." Meaning that Abyssea was bad but this is bad on a lesser scale. However, the two are not related at all. One completely changed game play (which a lot of people found positive) while another is an exclusive in-game item.

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Well first of all, just to clarify, I meant "You have to sit around in DA and long for the good old days when you didn't have to pay money to get to endgame places, before sky, sea, or salvage." My overall point is that we've been FORCED to fork over money if we want to keep abreast the endgame community in... pretty much every expansion except for maybe the mini ones. In contrast to this one item which will help you out for... maybe 35 hours if all 20 of your jobs are below level 30... those expansions seem like gunpoint robbery whereas this is more like a panhandling hobo asking you nicely for spare change. You don't need this hat. It won't do you nearly as much good as it would do for someone who is just picking up the game.

If however they were offering a free, final form empyrean weapon, yeah, that's just a painfully obvious attempt to get people who don't need the disc to pick it up anyways just so they don't fall behind. This trinket is just a barely useful fashion statement for anyone who reads these forums, but it's completely game-changing for a true newb. So, when looking back to all the other expansions (Spaceballs 2: The Quest For More Money) in which you either buy it or you're newb, do you really truly believe this is SE's best attempt at milking money out of existing gamers?

I'll say it again. You don't need this hat. If you want it badly enough just to look like a chocobo with embarassing acne and awkward voice changes, hey, whatever floats your boat. But you don't need this hat. Newbs need this hat.

Edit: Maybe not so much gunpoint robbery, but gunpoint tradery. "Give me 30 bucks for this keyboard, or I shoot you!" as compared to "Please, kind sir, I'll sell you my left shoe for 20 bucks." Eh, it's still hyperbole, but you get the point.

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Originally Posted by Arcon

As I said before, it isn't at all about the value and usefulness of the item. It could be a bag of flaming chocobo poop, the concern would still be valid. It's about making any kind of ingame content, no matter what it is, only available through real money means. Is this immoral? Debatable. People aren't entitled to anything, but they could logically assume, that by paying the monthly fee, they don't get excluded from any game content, which is the case here. Even if it was a standalone item, not coming with a new collection, it would still be immoral in my opinion. How does a new collection that comes with it make it worse? Technically, it doesn't. But it masks SE's attempt at making money by shallowly tying it to something else, and as I said before, that sounds like a scam and is disrespectful to the userbase.

It was the same with the Tidal Talisman. I bought that, along with tons of other people. How many of them do you think still owned it after the first day? Do you think SE really expected that it was so popular and that they'd see FFXI fans walk the streets with their new bling? Why do you even think SE bundled it with a real item in the first place? Because it was always their policy to not make ingame content available through real life means. So they simply said that you aren't paying for the ingame item, but for the actual item, with the ingame item being a bonus. It still went against their policy, they knew it, the players knew it, people were annoyed by that move back then as well. Now they took it one step further, and masked it with a rather useless product, at least to a majority of people who will be buying it.

And to the people saying "other companies do something similar all the time", that is not an argument at all.

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Well, I wasn't really responding to you, but.. Since you quoted me.

I don't know what to tell you really. Your stance on this is one I understand perfectly well, but.. it's just the way things are. And my pointing out it's been done before and by other companies or even by SE itself - that wasn't meant as an arguement, that was meant to point out the cold hard truth of the matter.. Which is: This isn't new, this happens a lot now, this is the current direction of the industry.

My arguement was simple, the item isn't worth getting bent out of shape over. Now the MORALITY of this business practice is in a whole other ballpark, and if that's what you (and some others here) are upset about, well.. That's an understandable thing to want to think about and to want to discuss. But as I said, it's common practice these days, it's just the way things are. I don't agree with it either, and yes I find it a bit annoying at times too - it was a bitch in the case of FFXIV to get all of the bonus items in that game.. But meh, life goes on.

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Originally Posted by Yinnyth

I'll say it again. You don't need this hat.

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Agreed

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Originally Posted by Krisan

My argument was simple, the item isn't worth getting bent out of shape over. Now the MORALITY of this business practice is in a whole other ballpark, and if that's what you (and some others here) are upset about, well.. That's an understandable thing to want to think about and to want to discuss. But as I said, it's common practice these days, it's just the way things are. I don't agree with it either, and yes I find it a bit annoying at times too - it was a bitch in the case of FFXIV to get all of the bonus items in that game.. But meh, life goes on.

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I think what kind of stands out here are three things that occurred because of the tsunami:

1) People were asking for a way to give to Japan through S/E
2) People were asking for a way to still pay their monthly fees
3) People were supporting S/E not having a back-up plan for a scenario when their central operations went down, having sympathy for poor planning on S/E's part because of the situation

I think those people, myself included, took those stances because of a feeling of affinity with S/E. It was based on a belief that there was something beyond a pure business relationship. Although S/E is giving an item to those who contributed to relief efforts through them, I think very few expected anything in return when they asked for such a vehicle. I know if the same thing had occurred with a company such as AT&T, I would have had a very different position. I feel like it's pure business with them. Unfortunately, trying to get me to buy something I don't need just to get an item now has made S/E purely a business arrangement in my mind. While it always was that, most companies do not want you to think that. Naive, yes. But, still a reality for many who play the game.

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Originally Posted by Randwolf

3) People were supporting S/E not having a back-up plan for a scenario when their central operations went down, having sympathy for poor planning on S/E's part because of the situation

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Wow. "Poor planning". Woooooowwwww. I'm going to give you the benefit of the doubt and assume you're saying that third one was other people's assessment of the situation. If I am correct in my assumption that you fall into one of the 2 other listed categories, then this response is not directed at you, it's directed at everyone who actually believes SE should be held accountable for not being prepared for one of the worst natural disasters of recent times.

Response: YOU DO NOT PAY SE ENOUGH FOR THEM TO HAVE REDUNDANT SERVERS IN ALL 7 CONTINENTS. Just as it is impractical to walk around in full body armor all the time just in case you get attacked, it is impractical and costly to have a back up plan for when Thor, God of Thunder, decides to fart destruction upon your entire country.

Now that I've responded to those heartless people who always need a human or humans to blame if something inconveniences them in the slightest bit... if I'm reading into your post correctly, you're essentially saying that you felt compassion for SE as a company, but now you feel betrayed that the compassion was not reciprocated, largely due to the fact that this item (which you likely have no use for) has been included in their compilation. Perhaps even extending the argument so far as to say that SE is using the sympathy they've built up from the disaster in order to make more money. In which case you're simply being illogical since they have made much better attempts at our money than this, and this item is not extremely useful beyond the 3 hours of your life it might save you depending on how many sub-30 jobs you level. Or perhaps I have completely missed your point..

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Yinnyth

... if I'm reading into your post correctly, you're essentially saying that you felt compassion for SE as a company, but now you feel betrayed that the compassion was not reciprocated, largely due to the fact that this item (which you likely have no use for) has been included in their compilation. Perhaps even extending the argument so far as to say that SE is using the sympathy they've built up from the disaster in order to make more money. In which case you're simply being illogical since they have made much better attempts at our money than this, and this item is not extremely useful beyond the 3 hours of your life it might save you depending on how many sub-30 jobs you level. Or perhaps I have completely missed your point..

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You did completely miss the point.

The point I'm making is that companies, most of the good ones, make every attempt to have customers believe that it isn't a business focused primarily on the bottom line. But, instead, some entity with which they have a relationship. The point is that for 1 & 2 on my list, they succeeded with some people. There were many people wanting to donate through them, when giving to the Red Cross was easier and just as effective, which showed that people had a personal connection with the company. You could pick just about any of the major charities and your money would still have gotten to the Japanese people. As far as people still wanting to pay S/E their monthly fee when S/E was waiving it, that is a big one. How many businesses would you say to "take my money, you need it." Yet, there were quite a few people who said just that.

As far as the final point, I'm guessing you haven't been on the forums long. This was a major discussion with people ripping S/E a new one for not having a back-up plan. And, it wasn't just a couple people. Unrealistic or not, I'm doubting you would find anyone who felt an affinity for the company arguing that one. But, there were quite a lot of people who did rip-up on S/E for just that reason.

So you're trying to say that SE isn't trying hard enough to fool us into thinking they don't care about the bottom line? Or that they're trying too hard?

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Originally Posted by Yinnyth

So you're trying to say that SE isn't trying hard enough to fool us into thinking they don't care about the bottom line? Or that they're trying too hard?

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That would be correct on the first point. If you can make a customer believe that it is more about them than the money, you're being smart. If people believe you care more about their wallet than them, they will shop around for someone who is easier on the wallet. It has nothing to do with reality. Even hospitals are about the bottom line. They don't ever want you to believe that. But, it's true. However, a good business makes you believe otherwise.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Randwolf

That would be correct on the first point. If you can make a customer believe that it is more about them than the money, you're being smart. If people believe you care more about their wallet than them, they will shop around for someone who is easier on the wallet. It has nothing to do with reality. Even hospitals are about the bottom line. They don't ever want you to believe that. But, it's true. However, a good business makes you believe otherwise.

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This actually makes a lot of sense.

Just saying >___>

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Originally Posted by Tsuneo

I don't see why we shouldn't be entitled to it. The beret comes in addition to the content, yet we already own the content. How exactly can you justify paying $20 for a collection that I already have all the content from

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The same way I bought the game, 4 expansions, and 3 add-on scenarios for 15 bucks? The only difference is a hat that won't affect the end-game (or even mid-game) scene at all.

Scenario 1: Buy the game, every expansion, and every addon as they come out paying full price, being able to play as soon as they're available.

Scenario 2: Buy the game, every expansion, and every addon for a fraction the full price for each significantly later than when they came out therefore having access for a shorter period of time.

Scenario 3: Same as Scenario 2 except throw in a hat, and all hell breaks loose.

People that paid full price for each addon/expansion got it as soon as they were available and were able to progress through the content at their leisure. People who buy the new add-ons now are almost a year behind and won't have the same luxuries of knowledge, experience, and Linkshells to make progression easier.

Using the cable example, the "long time customers" got to watch/order more content than the ones who buy cable tomorrow. Your subscription fee is your entitlement to the content. The time you spend paying this fee does not entitle you to anything other than the content you pay for, be it 10 years or 10 seconds.

You chose to buy the Add-on scenarios when they came out. Could've waited until a few weeks from now to buy it and get a free hat, but you didn't you bought it at the price they set. Your reward is being able to play that content for a significant amount of time before the people that buy it in 2 weeks.

If you don't like the idea of throwing a bunch of money at a wall and then seeing new people come up to that wall and be able to do the same thing for a lesser amount than you probably shouldn't be playing MMOs.

And you feel this collection is one of their bigger failings to obscure the truth that they don't care about us, they care about our money? A blatant and outright lunge at our pocketbooks?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Yinnyth

And you feel this collection is one of their bigger failings to obscure the truth that they don't care about us, they care about our money? A blatant and outright lunge at our pocketbooks?

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No, just one of the more obvious ones.

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Originally Posted by Karbuncle

This actually makes a lot of sense.

Just saying >___>

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While it does make sense and good on a company that can do that and maintain a successful business model, this doesn't necessarily mean that SE is doing exactly that. While I think SE cares about it's consumers more than some (look at all the effort going into fixing FF14), they need to pull in more new players as well.

Making your old customers is certainly a concern, but getting NEW customers in addition to your old ones, is probably their focus. If you can keep the old customers complacent, and the get some new ones while you're at it, why not release a new Ultimate collection like this?

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Originally Posted by Randwolf

No, just one of the more obvious ones.

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Cereal with worthless little toy prizes which you have no use for. Also an obvious attempt at getting adults with no children to buy the cereal? No, they have an obvious target: children. This hat has an obvious target: newbs.

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Originally Posted by Yinnyth

Cereal with worthless little toy prizes which you have no use for. Also an obvious attempt at getting adults with no children to buy the cereal? No, they have an obvious target: children. This hat has an obvious target: newbs.

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Anyway, I tire of this discussion. I think most people have, at this point, decided what they feel about the issue and most likely won't change their mind one way or the other.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Atima

While it does make sense and good on a company that can do that and maintain a successful business model, this doesn't necessarily mean that SE is doing exactly that. While I think SE cares about it's consumers more than some (look at all the effort going into fixing FF14), they need to pull in more new players as well.

Making your old customers is certainly a concern, but getting NEW customers in addition to your old ones, is probably their focus. If you can keep the old customers complacent, and the get some new ones while you're at it, why not release a new Ultimate collection like this?

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I don't think giving current players this hat will prevent new players from joining >____>

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Originally Posted by Karbuncle

I don't think giving current players this hat will prevent new players from joining >____>

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The idea isn't to give it to current players. That hat is clearly intended for new ones. While there isn't anything wrong with giving it to old players, and there isn't anything from stopping the old players from buying the Expansion, the expansion isn't meant for old players that already have access to the content.

While I'm not saying the hat shouldn't be given to old players by ANY means, complaining that you don't get a hat that won't really affect you is silly. You can get the hat if you want it. The price has been set and you can have at it Would it be cool if SE made it available without the new expansion, sure, but it isn't. Facts are facts.

If you could buy the hat for say $5 dollars, would you? Then that would be something to contend and bring to SE's attention, but complaining that you don't have a hat that won't affect the content tier you obviously have access to is pretty silly. The hat is intended to wrangle in new people and help them get to the content you're already involved with.


---Edited for Clarification in reference to linked post---

That's not the point of the concern!

Why should we have to pay for ZERO CONTENT, Camate, just to get the Beret?

Now, if you want to come out and admit this is the only way Square-Enix is going to get new players, fine! If you want to say we all psycho-XP to 90 in Abyssea anyway and don't need it - fine. But at least admit it!!

But it's an insult to my intelligence (cue jokes from the Cheater Brigade here) to have us (WHO ALREADY HAVE ALL THE CONTENT) pay $20 or whatever it is (WHEN WE PAID MORE JUST FOR ABYSSEA!) to get this Beret.

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Originally Posted by Starcade

That's not the point of the concern!

Why should we have to pay for ZERO CONTENT, Camate, just to get the Beret?

Now, if you want to come out and admit this is the only way Square-Enix is going to get new players, fine! If you want to say we all psycho-XP to 90 in Abyssea anyway and don't need it - fine. But at least admit it!!

But it's an insult to my intelligence (cue jokes from the Cheater Brigade here) to have us (WHO ALREADY HAVE ALL THE CONTENT) pay $20 or whatever it is (WHEN WE PAID MORE JUST FOR ABYSSEA!) to get this Beret.

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If you really want the hat so bad, just buy it. If you think it'll make that much of a difference beings you already have the Abyssea content and 1-30 will take so long that you need increased skill ups and movement speed that won't matter when you go from 31-90 in 24hrs with Abyssea leeching. Even from the standpoint of a person leveling the old way, 1-30 is a pretty small margin of the leveling experience.

Make a new thread and petition SE to make the hat available to everyone through a registration purchase for 5 bucks or something, but it doesn't make much sense for veteran players to complain that they don't get an item that is not intended for them in the first place.

If you already have the content then you don't need to buy this.

Considering it took me 8 years for my first 75, and 4 years for my first 30, playing casually, this is a very useful item to have for my remaining jobs. Only giving it free to new players is a slap in the face. Utility is similar to the Nexus Cape for me. As a PS2 player, buying every expansion at release was forced, since the discs would go out of print a month or two after expansion release.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Starcade

That's not the point of the concern!

Why should we have to pay for ZERO CONTENT, Camate, just to get the Beret?

Now, if you want to come out and admit this is the only way Square-Enix is going to get new players, fine! If you want to say we all psycho-XP to 90 in Abyssea anyway and don't need it - fine. But at least admit it!!

But it's an insult to my intelligence (cue jokes from the Cheater Brigade here) to have us (WHO ALREADY HAVE ALL THE CONTENT) pay $20 or whatever it is (WHEN WE PAID MORE JUST FOR ABYSSEA!) to get this Beret.

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Maybe they'll grant your wish and offer to sell just the code for the beret for a mere $15 for people who don't want to pay the extra $5 for the expansions they already have. Also, you paid more for abyssea because it was new and shiny back then. Now it's the status quo, so it's not worth nearly as much as it used to be.

Also, claiming that this is an insult to your intelligence implies that you think they think you'll buy this for only the beret, though you personally believe the beret isn't worth the price they're asking. However, you most likely want this hat pretty badly, or maybe you're just like me and enjoy discussing the ethics behind this product. So I'm guessing you're torn currently: on one hand you really want this thing, on the other, you don't think it's worth $20.

What I'm interested in knowing is why you want the beret so badly. Do you still have several jobs below level 30 you intend to level soon? Do you want to own every costume-producing item you can get your hands on? Are you a collector who buys every FFXI related thing you're offered? Do you simply feel that you should be entitled to every item that is offered to any other player?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Randwolf

That would be correct on the first point. If you can make a customer believe that it is more about them than the money, you're being smart. If people believe you care more about their wallet than them, they will shop around for someone who is easier on the wallet. It has nothing to do with reality. Even hospitals are about the bottom line. They don't ever want you to believe that. But, it's true. However, a good business makes you believe otherwise.

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Or you could acknowledge the bottom line is your primary concern, which everyone who is not a child already understands, and appeal to customers without insulting their collective intelligence by providing a quality product at a reasonable price.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by scaevola

Or you could acknowledge the bottom line is your primary concern, which everyone who is not a child already understands, and appeal to customers without insulting their collective intelligence by providing a quality product at a reasonable price.

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They are offering a quality product at a reasonable price. What they should have done is include the hat within the serial code of the new software, that way only new people get em. Then you all could whine about why you are unable to get it at all.

If you've been playing long enough to already own all the expansions and add-ons (which presumably means you're an advanced enough player to make use of all of them) then you probably don't need the newbie hat, which means there's no obligation for SE to hand it out to everyone for nothing.

Which means if you want the hat, buy the expansion and use the item code on your account.


If you're a new enough player to make use of the hat, chances are good that you haven't bought Abyssea yet, which means it's worth buying the new collection just for the Abyssea add-ons, and as a bonus you get a very nice hat to help you get to the point where you can start to enter Abyssea.



If you bought the Abyssea add-ons but are a new enough player to truly utilize the hat, then... I dunno. Why did you buy them when you couldn't really utilize them yet? If you want the hat badly enough then you'll shell out the money for it, and if you don't that's okay -- you can still do fine without the hat.