Final Fantasy Vana'Diel Collection 3! (Now with Epic Items~)

[Etrigan]

This pisses me off as well, if they were going to do this I would rather them do it with when you buy the beret as a physical item much like they did with the Tidal Talisman. That way I could be paying for something (somewhat) cool IRL and get a bonus in game item... rather than have to buy a new set of install discs to get an item to help my lowbie jobs... that is 20 bucks I will *NOT* be wasting

[Misi]

Like maybe those 3 little monsters off the side of the airship?

I'm cool with that!

[Mirage]

stuff

Sure, it's not really unethical, but that doesn't mean existing players can't be dissatisfied when a representative says "you already bought this product, but if you buy it again, you can also get this item!"

It's also worth noting that because this is a virtual item, it doesn't actually cost anything at all for the company to make it available to more people.

[Yinnyth]

Except with that example, many retail stores have a return/exchange window. Many stores I shop at have protection against that, where if it goes on sale within 14 days of your purchase, you can exchange the item for itself and they refund you the difference in price.

This, they're telling us, thanks for buying the game at full price, now we're going to give our new customers something extra plus the game at a discount, and you have to pay a total of even more if you want that bonus. They're punishing us for buying the full product early.

Yes, I'm certain that was their reasoning when they decided to go ahead with this item. Lex Luthor, Sage Sundi, and Snidely Whiplash all sat around a table and spent a whole night trying to figure out how they could make you angry.

Or perhaps it was an item that was designed to lend a helping hand to any new players who happen to see the game in the store and decide to pick it up and give it a try. How old is this game now? Feels like I've been playing it for 20 years now. But starting out as a complete newb, you have nothing to offer to anyone who could actually help you out. The beret helps to bridge the gap to the point where you could at least stand a chance getting lucky and leeching exp out of abyssea.

Myself, I would get nothing out of this hat since a few years back my friend and I duo'd all our jobs above 37, but I could see where it would be useful to people who still have a job below level 30. A job below level 30 that they intend to level still. A job below level 30 that they intend to level still and don't have a friend who could help powerlevel them.

But hey, if you don't want fresh blood joining the game and getting an enjoyable enough experience that they might stick around long enough to reach the endgame, you're completely entitled to your opinion. My opinion is that SE is trying to do the right thing in the wrong way. I forgive them however because they're in too much of a hurry to re-implement all the content in the game designed for level 30 and below. They have lots of endgame content to finish implementing for me to enjoy, so I appreciate they didn't waste too much time on making gameplay feasible for new players.

Oh yeah, they also probably figured they could make a few bucks off the random long-time player who simply buys things to collect. But I really don't see much use for this beret for any serious endgamers. Sure you could argue that they should be giving this item to EVERYONE and they can determine whether or not it's useful or just a waste of space, but there are lots of factors you need to consider. Not only does a newb not have any ingame friends to help them (you probably do), they don't know what a freaking weaponskill is or how they use it. They probably think they have to run all the way back to their mog house to restore their MP. They don't know how to mine for fish. Getting started in abyssea at this point with no atma, no abyssite, none of the gear is a hellish experience for someone who's completely new to the game. They need a leg up, you don't.

As for the money, most wares depreciate in value over time. Expansions are wares.

[Randwolf]

First off, I don't really care about the item and think the whole situation ...customers.

I actually find this whole issue pretty interesting on an academic level. In undergraduate experimental psych, on of my areas was consumer manipulation. Image and belief plays a large part in the success of any product. Probably my favorite experiment involved getting people to believe advertizing over their own senses. It's fairly easy to manipulate people. Especially those who are loyal to a brand (political parties are the best example).

Anyway, your points are valid and, to an extent, analogous. And, I would assume that S/E contemplated the cost-benefit before they moved forward with this in this fasion. Now, the only difference between the cable company and this promotion is that the premium channels have an ongoing cost. As, opposed to this in-game item which has a one-time cost to S/E, primarily the hours they paid for someone to design and code it. With the premium channels, and perhaps you could enlighten me, for these promotion periods, I'm guessing that somewhere up the food chain, the studios or the channels themselves, may be waiving some or any of the costs to the cable company. Or, the cable company is eating the entire costs of the content in the hopes of people continuing the service after the trial. Thus, the premium content is never free. It is always costing someone in the chain something. As opposed to the item S/E paid for and can replicate as many times as it wishes at no further cost.

Now, for most business, if you had an item that costs you the same for 1 or 100,000, you most likely would give it as an incentive to new customers. And, to current customers as a loyalty builder. However, you figure that this item can generate revenue because it is attractive to old customers and some will want the item enough to pay for it. Even to the point of buying something they already bought from you and really don't need to buy again. Undoubtedly, you know that asking customers to buy something a second time, especially if they don't need the original item a second time, just to get the new item will make some of them angry. You also know that it will lessen loyalty to your brand. However, if that item costs you lots to create the first time, that could be part of your equation in the calculations.

Now S/E has the advantage of being the only provider of FFXI. There is no where else you can get it. Add to that, that some people are literally addicted to the product. There are some customers so addicted that S/E could do just about anything to them and they will still continue to pay S/E to play. They may hate themselves and S/E. But they will still continue to pay to play.

Now, since we know this item is a one time cost to S/E, unless they have a royalty arrangement with the designer (I highly doubt this since most companies have written agreements that anything created on their clock belongs to them), to provide all customers, whether new or old creates no extra expense for S/E. So, it's pretty obvious that S/E went with option two: Attempt to generate revenue from old customers with an item that costs you nothing. And, of course all the benefits and negatives that come along with it.

[Duelle]

Pathetic non-related argument about an item I didn't buy, even though it was amazing. Just because you don't value your money highly enough doesn't mean other more sensible people are the same. Like I said, not going to argue with naivety. I'm not trying to convince you, so stop trying to convince me of something that stupid? I have every right to be mad about this obvious ploy to get more money out of people who already purchased everything. This isn't going to change, nor is the fact that they are wronging us.

Not to belittle your stance, but you're mad at a company from a country where it is common practice to re-release something with one or two extras like stickers or a little model of one of the characters, or maybe an added extra character but little else changed in-game. Granted, they have to get creative for an MMO like FFXI, but the business model is there.

Now whether they're using this as a way to make money to feed FFXIV is another story, and since I can't read their VP of marketing's mind, I can neither confirm or deny that claim.

[Randwolf]

Now whether they're using this as a way to make money to feed FFXIV is another story, and since I can't read their VP of marketing's mind, I can neither confirm or deny that claim.

Yeah, that would pretty much be BS. Now, they may be siphoning off FFXI's profits to help feed FXIV if it's losing money. But, I can't imagine that any business decisions around a single FFXI release would be controlled by the relationship between the two games. Now, it would be realistic if every part of S/E was told to tighten their belts and find extra sources of revenue until XIV becomes profitable. But, again, I have a hard time with the thought someone said "XIV needs money. Put that hat with the collection bundle. Then, send all proceeds from anyone who bought each expansion/add-on separately and then bought the collection to XIV."

[Sekundes]

I'd like to see what SE's reaction to all this is. The hat is only for looks for someone like me, and yea, I want it but I wouldn't be willing to buy the collection again to do it, especially since I've already bought it for 4 characters.

I knew they would eventually release a cheaper all in one pack for abyssea and that does not bother me in the slightest. It does kinda bother me that they would add an item to it that I would have to repurchase to get.

[Krisan]

I See where you're coming from, but i think I'll try to explain this better. I suck with words so bare with me. FFXI isn't an IPOD. The difference between (Using your example) Buying something, and then it going on sale later... Its not a big deal.

However, If that said something went on sale for 5x Cheaper, then suddenly came with a 1-of-a-kind-Exclusive Iphone Ap or something that was the best AP to use for your Iphone, there would be hell and riot. Its kinda how When the Iphone was first released, a bunch of people bought it, the like, 2weeks later it went on sale for like 100$ less, and then a Shit storm, Apple gave people who bought Iphone a gift card or something.

If this was just a "Hey, Everything is cheaper" Sale no one would care, like the other 80 Vana'Collections. But this one comes now with an in-Game item that is the sole greatest item available for 1-30. So its kinda like, Yah... we definitely aren't entitled to it, But it just seems kinda like a kick in the nuts.

To try and make a better Example, Imagine a new game is released, You buy it for 60$, You enjoy the game, a Few Weeks later it goes on sale for 20$, and now it comes with a 1-of-a-kind In-game Weapon/item/armor that you can only get through buying it again. You'd probably think "Well fuck"

I'm sure it'd be less complaining, Or you probably wouldn't care, but as a general practice it'd feel like a kick in the nuts to people who just bought the game.

I Can't really find a way to word my thoughts adequately, :| I hope you don't take this as an attack on you, I'm just trying to show you where these people are coming from. I certainly don't feel entitled to anything, but I feel for the people who are on the side of the argument that want the item.

The hat isn't an end-all item, though. In your example the app on the iPhone is the "best App" and in this case.. The hat isn't. It's only good up until level 30, and.. well, did you notice how they're removing the exp loss up to level 30? SE is treating 1-30 as the new 1-10 range. (Which makes sense, considering the level cap increase and exp changes.) This is something I think a lot of people are neglecting to realize, or rather it's a transition that isn't easy for people to process. (We're all admittedly very used to the way things have been for a good many years..)

What I'm trying to say here is, the hat isn't that valuable, and it's not really worth losing sleep over. A better comparison would be some kind of exclusive and thorough and initiative tutorial added the iPhone, something that the end-user could benefit from when they start out using their new device - but that which eventually becomes useless. The hat is the same, it's a nice kickstart, helps people get their bearings, but it's utterly worthless after a certain point.

My example of 1-30 being the new 1-10 is also very important to take into consideration here.. It's no coincidence they made the hat in this range and are releasing it just as the exp loss is removed in that range. These were probably planned to go hand and hand together for a long while now. 1-30 with the exp change is also pretty darn fast, it takes longer than 1-10 did in the old days, yea, but it's a lot faster than 1-30 was in the old days..

Also, what does the hat do exactly? Reraise, Refresh, Regen.. Can already get all of these from FoV. The skill bonus is nice, but are you terribly likely not to be capped on your skills pre-30 anyway? That really just leaves the movement speed bonus, which is pretty unique to be certain.. Though we can accomplish this at level 1 already just using something like Sprinter's Shoes. (Albeit, it's not a constant effect and costs charges, but you see where I'm going with this.)

The hat is awesome, this is true. This is why I want it. But it is not the best thing ever, and it's not worth getting upset over in my opinion. Quite a few long-time players (loyal fans playing from day one) probably won't even have jobs low enough (like yourself) to take advantage of it. And even those who can.. So what? 1-30 is the new 1-10 coming next patch, even if you're the worst player ever and die at every turn.. you'll still get 30 without much else in the way of slowing you down.

Also as far as the exclusive items go with games.. This happens all the time these days. Retailers like Amazon and GameStop ship unique DLC with them depending on who you order with. SE themselves did this with FFXIV too, the regular version came with a pair of Goggles, the Collectors Edition had a Helmet. These were mutually exclusive, and you had to buy the game twice if you wanted both. (Likewise, a bonus item came with FFXIII for the game, and ANOTHER item came with having an active FFXI subscription.) This is actually a very common practice.. All of these things are also generally aesthetic or very finite in their usefulness. (They aren't good forever, or they're only visually appealing.)

Anyway.. In the case of exclusive DLC depending on where you buy a game.. In those cases you end up in a situation where you need to buy the game at full retail price more than once for the stuff, or you do without. In this case with the hat, you can buy the full game at an incredible discount and get the hat. I would also add that the CM mentioned the reward code was separate from the registration code.. Meaning you could buy it, get your hat, and then sell the registration code to someone who wanted it. (For an alt account or whatever else.)

Oh and no, I don't take any of this as a personal attack. If anything you are one of the most constructive members on this forum and I respect you for that.

[Arcon]

Prishe statue : She better be drop-kicking something.

Like maybe those 3 little monsters off the side of the airship?

I'm cool with that!

Who wouldn't be? They're almost as annoying as Prishe herself. Now we just need a statue of Tenzen cutting Prishe in half and Vana'diel will be a less annoying place again.

Yes, I'm certain that was their reasoning when they decided to go ahead with this item. Lex Luthor, Sage Sundi, and Snidely Whiplash all sat around a table and spent a whole night trying to figure out how they could make you angry.

Almost. They tried to figure out how to milk you for more money. And they succeeded and are gonna go ahead with it despite an angry crowd. The analogy is quite nice.

The hat isn't an end-all item, though. [..]

As I said before, it isn't at all about the value and usefulness of the item. It could be a bag of flaming chocobo poop, the concern would still be valid. It's about making any kind of ingame content, no matter what it is, only available through real money means. Is this immoral? Debatable. People aren't entitled to anything, but they could logically assume, that by paying the monthly fee, they don't get excluded from any game content, which is the case here. Even if it was a standalone item, not coming with a new collection, it would still be immoral in my opinion. How does a new collection that comes with it make it worse? Technically, it doesn't. But it masks SE's attempt at making money by shallowly tying it to something else, and as I said before, that sounds like a scam and is disrespectful to the userbase.

It was the same with the Tidal Talisman. I bought that, along with tons of other people. How many of them do you think still owned it after the first day? Do you think SE really expected that it was so popular and that they'd see FFXI fans walk the streets with their new bling? Why do you even think SE bundled it with a real item in the first place? Because it was always their policy to not make ingame content available through real life means. So they simply said that you aren't paying for the ingame item, but for the actual item, with the ingame item being a bonus. It still went against their policy, they knew it, the players knew it, people were annoyed by that move back then as well. Now they took it one step further, and masked it with a rather useless product, at least to a majority of people who will be buying it.

And to the people saying "other companies do something similar all the time", that is not an argument at all.