67 Gil Chocobo Blinkers seriously?

Cruor led to hyperinflation due to NEW gil being pumped in faster than it could be pumped out(Legion/Limbus/Einherjar hardly delete much gil compared to the crapton of gil being pumped in every hour from NPC sales. Dynamis Currency selling doesn't create or destroy any gil since it's being traded between players. Blinkers>NPC generates NEW gil.

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Originally Posted by Camiie

You're going to invest in gold?

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Dyna currency probably. New currency can only be generated within limits (unlike blinker gilfountain), and it has some epic size drains to remove it from the economy. It's also well known and traded frequently.

SE would also have to implement a barter trade system to make it easier to buy and sell goods using DC (Dynamis Currency).

Yeah, that's probably what I would have ended up with. It would be either that, or alexandrite, but dyna is easier to trade.

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Originally Posted by Ophannus

Cruor led to hyperinflation due to NEW gil being pumped in faster than it could be pumped out(Legion/Limbus/Einherjar hardly delete much gil compared to the crapton of gil being pumped in every hour from NPC sales. Dynamis Currency selling doesn't create or destroy any gil since it's being traded between players. Blinkers>NPC generates NEW gil.

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true, but a lot of ppl also used curor to pay for the dyna curency. With out that income the amount of ppl able to mass afford curency could see a decline.

Not necessarily. In the short term, this might happen, seeing as people will have to be more careful about their money now that they can't print new money whenever they need it.

I am of the opinion that dyna currency currently is inflated, due to them not having dropped in price even though the supply has increased tremendously. Compared to pre-dyna renewal, dyna currency is now at least 5 times easier to acquire (if you're a low-mid tier farmer), and each farming run does no longer drain 500k gil out of circulation. However, prices seem to stay at almost the same level as before, which is strange when the supply has increased by an extreme amount. Without inflation, you would have expected them to decrease significantly.

If this is indeed the case, what will happen is that dyna currency will probably drop in price to something that is closer to their non-inflated prices.

As prices drop, dyna farmers will undoubtly cry out in agony over not being able to make as many millions a day as before. However, this is unimportant. As long as people put a high value on relic weapons, dyna currency will be worth farming for. The supply will adjust according to the demand. If too many farm it, it will drop. if too few farm it, it will rise. If the prices drop too much, fewer will farm it, it it rises too much, too many will farm it, and so the cycle goes.

People just have to remember that things are relative, an economy is dynamic, not static. Value isn't determined by the amount of zeroes in your gil figure. Remember, a japanese person with a 400000 yen yearly income isn't richer than an american with a 100000 dollar yearly income. The value of gil will change as a result of this update. Earning 2000 gil instead of 6000 from a whiteshell isn't bad if you can buy a stack of red curry buns for 40000 instead of 110000 gil.

Have a point, but at the same time i dont see dyna currency goign down all to much. In some cases its as low as 5-7k. Even with deflation, if it goes down to much more, ppl will stop bothering. At the same time, for a while im sure all the extra ppl in dyna will change it a bit to. So well see jsut how much for both sides'

But when people stop farming dyna because it's not profitable enough, supply will drop and prices will rise again!

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Originally Posted by Godofgods

Valid point, but I'm not sure its completely accurate. If a HmP was buyable with curor for say 10k each (not a hard amount to obtain), needing 1500 plates would cost 15 million curor. Which overall is a hefty amount to acquire. Granted it would still be a lot faster to obtain them then hopeing on a vw drop, but I'm not sure they would be 'all over the place'

And if it is true, the price could be raised. With Hmp Selling somewhere around an avg 100k a plate, the old curor exchange rate would require roughly 38k curor to buy one. So you could raise the price to 30-40k a plate. (45-60mil)

Of course i still think its all ridicules. Would rather undo this nerf and work on alternate ways of removing gill form the system, rather then just making it less generatable.

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Can farm over a million cruor a day. That would make it way too easy. And no one would buy plates with gil if it were that much of a return. They would probably just go farm cruor instead, as it would be a waste of gil to buy plates.

If gil deflation is coming, I would sit on my liquid gil.

unless you think whatever you're buying is gonna increase in price more than the deflation.

I think a deflation is very unlikely, it would take years of the current game pace to take even remotely enough money out of the economy to even get back to where we were before Blinkers.

I just don't see how this Nerf is going to work as intended. Inflation and RMT was the problem (so they say). Inflation due to large amounts of money coming in, and none (or not much) going out. - Taking away the money coming in, could be considered a start, but you still have the same amount already in circulation. If it ain't being taken out then things wont change much. And if enough does start to be taken out, then the income wouldn't be as big a problem to begin with.

To combat RMT is the biggest joke of a reason for this Nerf. This is only going to help RMT's overall. Unless Gil is free for all, or everything is obtainable by quest only, RMT's are going to be around. And unless SE tracks down all the RMT's physical location and murder's them, RMT will continue to stick around.

That being said, best bet is make ppl rely on them as little as possible. That is exactly what curor/blinker did. Absolutely anyone can farm curor and trade for gill. Enough mobs for all. Highly skilled to new players could get it done. Proof of it is the RMT's prices. They used to be around $10+ per mill a few years back. Once curor became popular, their prices dropped to like $4.99/mil. The day after those blinkers were nerfed, the price jumped to $8.99 again. Granted with blinkers their supply was increased, but more relevantly, their demand for any product plummeted. This Nerf is only going to increase player demand of RMT Gil again.

And the idea that they cant find/stop a large amount of these RMT's is a joke quite honestly. When you see things like this and this; and you see the same things in front of Choco blinker NPC, the idea that they couldn't be found in time kinda losses and credibility. And the FC RMT's, it's kinda impossible NOT to find them. Large camp, massive amount of ppl standing around, the never ending /shouts and /yells in jeuno 24/7... Its all kinda hard to miss.

If the 'special' task force actually went after this ppl fast and often like they should, That combined with the easy of blinkers alone should make their business of Gil selling suffer drastically. Combine all that with some new ways to start taking larger amounts of gill out of the economy, they might be able to gain a foothold again the inflation and RMT at the same time. And it would be done without having to screw over everyone in the process.

All in all, i don't see this Nerf accomplishing either goal on its own. It will cause more problems then it could possibly solve.

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Originally Posted by Godofgods

I just don't see how this Nerf is going to work as intended. Inflation and RMT was the problem (so they say).

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SE never even mentioned RMT at all. This garbage was made up by hysterical players.

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Originally Posted by Godofgods

Inflation due to large amounts of money coming in, and none (or not much) going out. - Taking away the money coming in, could be considered a start, but you still have the same amount already in circulation. If it ain't being taken out then things wont change much.

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Most recent events either allow (Voidwatch), encourage (Meeble Burrows) or even enforce (Legion, Einherjar) removal of money from the circulation through NPC interactions.

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Originally Posted by Godofgods

And if enough does start to be taken out, then the income wouldn't be as big a problem to begin with.

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So what's your solution? Up the price of every NPC-related activity to 1M? So how would that be different from SE's move? It's a matter of balance, you can't just shout "create money" or "remove money" and think that will fix the problem.

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Originally Posted by Godofgods

To combat RMT is the biggest joke of a reason for this Nerf. This is only going to help RMT's overall. Unless Gil is free for all, or everything is obtainable by quest only, RMT's are going to be around. And unless SE tracks down all the RMT's physical location and murder's them, RMT will continue to stick around.

That being said, best bet is make ppl rely on them as little as possible. That is exactly what curor/blinker did. Absolutely anyone can farm curor and trade for gill. Enough mobs for all. Highly skilled to new players could get it done. Proof of it is the RMT's prices. They used to be around $10+ per mill a few years back. Once curor became popular, their prices dropped to like $4.99/mil. The day after those blinkers were nerfed, the price jumped to $8.99 again. Granted with blinkers their supply was increased, but more relevantly, their demand for any product plummeted. This Nerf is only going to increase player demand of RMT Gil again.

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Well, the problem with "make people not have to rely on gil" solution is that it's basically fixing rmt by destroying the economy. Taken to the extreme, it could make people stop trusting gil as a reliable method of payment, and then what do we do? I'd rather not have to buy my food by trading a chef 4 byne bills instead of buying it with gil on the AH.

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Originally Posted by Mirage

Well, the problem with "make people not have to rely on gil" solution is that it's basically fixing rmt by destroying the economy. Taken to the extreme, it could make people stop trusting gil as a reliable method of payment, and then what do we do? I'd rather not have to buy my food by trading a chef 4 byne bills instead of buying it with gil on the AH.

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I didnt mean 'not rely on gil' i ment for some ppl to not have to rely on RMT's gill selling.

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Originally Posted by Arcon

So what's your solution? Up the price of every NPC-related activity to 1M? So how would that be different from SE's move? It's a matter of balance, you can't just shout "create money" or "remove money" and think that will fix the problem.

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With inflation, the idea of create or remove money seems to be at the heart of the issue actually.
But you are right in that It's a matter of balance. Before blinkers we had a somewhat balanced economy in terms of gill created and gill removed. The blinkers unbalanced that by increasing the gill created. Which leaves two options, remove it, or increase the gill removed to counter it.

Personally, id rather chose the option to re-balance by increasing the removal. Reason why is because this method allows more players to get more things done. In the last year, players have been able to get crafts skilled, weapons and armor made. Dyna currency demand increased. Even ppl buying the HmP's and riftdross. It simply allowed them to get more done over all, then before the blinkers. Id rather keep that trend.

Personally, i haven't bothered with any of those things i mentioned. Nor have i ever traded Curor in for blinkers before. So I'm not merely 'whining because my methods were hurt' or anything. I just think its a better system that way. Granted, just increasing removal methods along might not be enough. But id rather explore options along that path; not only nerfing blinkers.

I don't remember very many times where SE actually said "were nerfing this because RMT abuse it" so to me that defense is quite mundane. Myself and others have seen lines of mules using that quest npc, lines of mules using npcs to sell, constant 24/7 shouts for fell cleaves with rmt pling on every server. Gil used to be around 20 a mil then dived to 5 a mil with blinkers BECAUSE PLAYERS DIDN'T STRUGGLE TO MAKE GIL WITH BLINKERS THUS NO ONE NEEDED TO PURCHASE GIL. Now that blinking is nerfed Gil has shot back up, rmt are still at it and the price for a cleave gas increased. Pretending this had nothing to do with RMT is foolish, sure players abuse it too but not every player controls an alliance worth of characters running a business across all servers to abuse it.

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Originally Posted by Winrie

I don't remember very many times where SE actually said "were nerfing this because RMT abuse it" so to me that defense is quite mundane. Myself and others have seen lines of mules using that quest npc, lines of mules using npcs to sell, constant 24/7 shouts for fell cleaves with rmt pling on every server. Gil used to be around 20 a mil then dived to 5 a mil with blinkers BECAUSE PLAYERS DIDN'T STRUGGLE TO MAKE GIL WITH BLINKERS THUS NO ONE NEEDED TO PURCHASE GIL. Now that blinking is nerfed Gil has shot back up, rmt are still at it and the price for a cleave gas increased. Pretending this had nothing to do with RMT is foolish, sure players abuse it too but not every player controls an alliance worth of characters running a business across all servers to abuse it.

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When it comes to economics there's no difference between a legit player in a FC party, and an RMT mule. In both cases "artificial gil" is pumped into circulation. RMTs typically do not spend the gil, they pile it up and wait for a purchase.

The legit players, one could argue, were a greater influence on the economy because they would immediately (or weekly) convert all their Cruor and buy whatever they were saving it up for. This was immediate and continuous injection of "artificial gil" directly into circulation.

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Originally Posted by Winrie

Now that blinking is nerfed Gil has shot back up, rmt are still at it and the price for a cleave gas increased.

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Definitely not true on my server, at least. It didn't take long until I saw shouts with several hours extra leech time for the same 1 million gil, and even yesterday I saw shouts offering 5 hours for 300k, rather than the usual 6 hours for 500k. That's 23k less gil per hour, after the price had stayed stable at 500k/6hours for months.

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Originally Posted by Winrie

I don't remember very many times where SE actually said "were nerfing this because RMT abuse it" so to me that defense is quite mundane. Myself and others have seen lines of mules using that quest npc, lines of mules using npcs to sell, constant 24/7 shouts for fell cleaves with rmt pling on every server. Gil used to be around 20 a mil then dived to 5 a mil with blinkers BECAUSE PLAYERS DIDN'T STRUGGLE TO MAKE GIL WITH BLINKERS THUS NO ONE NEEDED TO PURCHASE GIL. Now that blinking is nerfed Gil has shot back up, rmt are still at it and the price for a cleave gas increased. Pretending this had nothing to do with RMT is foolish, sure players abuse it too but not every player controls an alliance worth of characters running a business across all servers to abuse it.

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Thats quite true IMO. While SE may not have mentioned RMT directly, they are connected. But seeing lines of mules lined up at quest npc could simply be made illegal. Justified or not, it would have help keep inflation down longer. And its kinda hard for the STF to miss something like that in-game.

And this method of acquiring gill did rly hurt the RMT due to ppl simply not needing to use their service. The Nerf will make it harder for a lot of ppl to make Gil, especially those with limited time. Which will drive up demand on RMT gill selling.

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Originally Posted by Mirage

Definitely not true on my server, at least. It didn't take long until I saw shouts with several hours extra leech time for the same 1 million gil, and even yesterday I saw shouts offering 5 hours for 300k, rather than the usual 6 hours for 500k. That's 23k less gil per hour, after the price had stayed stable at 500k/6hours for months.

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Definitely not the case on Odin. Prices for FC shouts lately have remained the same. (around 100k/hour). But considering you cant get some of that gill back through curor, you could say that you are effectively paying a lot more.

Well, to be fair, whenever there is just a single FC party in progress, prices for that party are about the same as before. However, whenever there is another one, they quickly decrease several tens of thousands per hour, which indicates that there probably isn't enough people willing to pay 100k/h to fill two alliances anymore.

Before the nerf, I find it likely that a lot more people that in reality weren't very rich still got themselves FC leeched at full price, because they felt like they didn't actually lose money on it. Now, however, they actually would lose money, so they just don't feel like joining the most expensive ones.

In fact, before the nerf, you could pay 500k for 6 hours, pay for it with cruor-gil, and still come out of it with more cruor than you had before. Because of that, even if you didn't need the exp, it would be smart to join such parties simply for free money. I actually seriously considered doing this myself, but now, it is not a viable option unless I really really need some cruor to spend on brews, atmacite, or something like that.

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Originally Posted by Llana_Virren

When it comes to economics there's no difference between a legit player in a FC party, and an RMT mule. In both cases "artificial gil" is pumped into circulation. RMTs typically do not spend the gil, they pile it up and wait for a purchase.

The legit players, one could argue, were a greater influence on the economy because they would immediately (or weekly) convert all their Cruor and buy whatever they were saving it up for. This was immediate and continuous injection of "artificial gil" directly into circulation.

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RMT don't pile up gil, they need to get rid of it before their account is banned. I would agree however, that more players generate gil this way then RMT simply due to the non-competitive nature of the gilfountain and the need to do so due to price hiking.

Few may remember the below thread a while back? (It's been bumped recently.)

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Originally Posted by Hashmalum

We've all been doing it by using cruor to buy chocobo blinkers then NPCing them for gil for a long time now. The dev team should by now be well aware of this. It could be eliminated, trivially and without side-effects, by adjusting the NPC sale price of chocobo blinkers. But they have refused to do so. I can only conclude that the dev team is perfectly fine with the idea of converting cruor to gil.

However, this procedure is tedious and requires lots of inventory space. So I propose that an NPC should be added to convert cruor to gil directly. There's even a ready-made lore explanation--it's already been stated in the Voidwatch storyline that Jeuno needs cruor for its anti-Voidwalker efforts and is always wanting more. Jeuno is of course a very wealthy city, made even more so by the fact that they literally mint gil. It would be trivial both code-wise and lore-wise to do it and it would make our lives a lot easier. So why not?

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Poetic justice? Irony? The culprit of the blinkerbust? Foolish mortal taunting the SE gods just once too many?

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Originally Posted by Arcon

I think a deflation is very unlikely, it would take years of the current game pace to take even remotely enough money out of the economy to even get back to where we were before Blinkers.

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Well, yes and no. You're right that it will take forever to actually get all that money out of the economy, but that doesn't rule out the possbility (probability?) of either extreme wealth inequality as the people who consistently farm the stuff a whole lot of people want in huge quantities (currency, alex) take all the liquid cash and then run out of buyers, or just good old-fashioned balkanization as everybody sits on their stacks waiting for a crash that never comes. Either of these would result in price drops.

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Originally Posted by scaevola

Well, yes and no. You're right that it will take forever to actually get all that money out of the economy, but that doesn't rule out the possbility (probability?) of either extreme wealth inequality as the people who consistently farm the stuff a whole lot of people want in huge quantities (currency, alex) take all the liquid cash and then run out of buyers, or just good old-fashioned balkanization as everybody sits on their stacks waiting for a crash that never comes. Either of these would result in price drops.

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Very true, but I don't think either case is very likely. Dynamis farming can be (and is) done by almost everyone, so if liquidity is an issue, people have a way around it. People who have lots of money are happy to spend it even now (relics were always in big demand, but I also noticed people started making a lot of mythics even), so money can still be readily obtained. And people who hoard money for the purpose of future investment is pretty rare, most are happy with the current influx of cash and are spending it wherever they can. People playing this game usually have short-sighted goals, very few people plan far ahead speculating on the economy.

However, that's just my suspicion based on what I see right now, it's hard to predict an accurate development without knowing what influence future game content (or even changes to the current content) will have on the economy.

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Dynamis farming can be (and is) done by almost everyone, so if liquidity is an issue, people have a way around it. People who have lots of money are happy to spend it even now (relics were always in big demand, but I also noticed people started making a lot of mythics even), so money can still be readily obtained.

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Most players probably CAN handle farming Dynamis with modest success (100-150 currency in a two-hour session, maybe, for someone of mediocre means? I dunno), but I don't think there are very many players (maybe a couple dozen per server, if that) who really hit the bricks to pull up 200+ per day for the purpose of selling as opposed to making their own relic. What I'm talking about is wealth concentrating in the hands of these guys specifically, which would deflate prices as the currently-wealthy folks making their relics have less and less money to spend on anything else (including more relics).

Of course, none of that really matters, because there are plenty of ways to make money and Adoulin will have even more.

Agree, money is LESS of a problem now. Even with blinker nerf. You do not need gil for making your empyrean gears +1, or +2. You can easily get decent abyssea accesories while you do Voidwatch. You can do Campaign if you need cells for Voidwatch. Meeble Burrow is cheap to do. Walk of Echoes is cheap to do. Voidwatch and Walk of Echoes will get you enough spending money for food etc. The only reason you need gil is for mythic and relic. One of those two can be farmed daily if you have the dedication. You can easily sell abyssea NM pop items for 10k-100k each depending on which pop set. So yeah, I don't get it why people complaining about this. As new returning players your option are limited unless you have one farmer job to 95-99. Stop leveling useless jobs that will never get you a place in endgame, abyssea farming or render you useless in most farming activities. Do that when you can steadily pull gill out of your ass with your farmer jobs :P

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Originally Posted by Luvbunny

Stop leveling useless jobs that will never get you a place in endgame, abyssea farming or render you useless in most farming activities.

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Yea! Only lvl jobs that will make u gill! To hell with what you want or like to do!!!

Or level both jobs that are fun, and jobs that are profitable. Oh wait... you can't level multiple jobs on the same character in this game.

This has probably already been said, but choco blinkers were bringing huge amounts of inflation to the game. I am glad SE decided to do something about it. You all want a short cut for making money in game, but the more short cuts there are, and the more they are abused, the less and less the money is worth...

I still stick to my saying.... RMT dont go away because SE/FFXI/FFIXV runs them..... GM call them all the time they do nothing.. point poven... lowering Blinkers.... makes more people use RMT sites.... see!

well done SE take the gil out of the game and everything stops.... no one is buying craft items now, they dont have the gil.

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Originally Posted by scaevola

Most players probably CAN handle farming Dynamis with modest success (100-150 currency in a two-hour session, maybe, for someone of mediocre means? I dunno), but I don't think there are very many players (maybe a couple dozen per server, if that) who really hit the bricks to pull up 200+ per day for the purpose of selling as opposed to making their own relic. What I'm talking about is wealth concentrating in the hands of these guys specifically, which would deflate prices as the currently-wealthy folks making their relics have less and less money to spend on anything else (including more relics).

Of course, none of that really matters, because there are plenty of ways to make money and Adoulin will have even more.

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Assuming people have gil to buy them...oh wait they can ask the rmt for it. after all, they too lazy to farm their currencies, no way are they going to farm gil.

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Originally Posted by scaevola

Most players probably CAN handle farming Dynamis with modest success (100-150 currency in a two-hour session, maybe, for someone of mediocre means? I dunno)

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Assuming everyone has the job/equip/knowledge to do Dyna. And the areas arnt over crowed. And that every player has 2-3 hours every day to do it. And (my favorite) can actually stand Dyna! :D (I've never really liked doing it to begin with).

It can be a great source for a lot of ppl at the moment, ill admit. But its not for everyone.

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Originally Posted by katz

Assuming people have gil to buy them...oh wait they can ask the rmt for it. after all, they too lazy to farm their currencies, no way are they going to farm gil.

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Hey I know. We could solve all the economy problems in the entire world if we just gave everyone on the entire planet a million dollars. No one would be poor anymore, I wonder why no one has done this already.

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Originally Posted by katz

well done SE take the gil out of the game and everything stops.... no one is buying craft items now, they dont have the gil.

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There is still a crapton of gil clogging the economy. If noone is buying craft items, it's because there's no reason to craft.

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Originally Posted by Kristal

There is still a crapton of gil clogging the economy. If noone is buying craft items, it's because there's no reason to craft.

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Theirs still reason to craft things. You just cant sell them generaly. Which is a major deterent to anyone that wants to level a craft

Probably because people are all being smart and holding their money so when prices go down they still have tons of gil. Think of it, less people buying things means prices go down, prices go down, your money stays the same or even goes up, and then you can buy more. No reason to buy things now when they are going to go down over the next few months anyways and be much cheaper, till then, all the smart people will be hoarding their money so they stay rich, rather than becoming poor with the rest of the market. Thats my stance at least, and its why I am keeping most of my gil.

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Originally Posted by Demon6324236

Probably because people are all being smart and holding their money

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The crafting market was like this long before this nerf

Well the problem with crafting so far as I see it is that the mats for the only desired items are so expensive that the crafts cost more than the result, this is in the case of non-HQ, with getting HQs, the prices go so high almost no one is willing to pay, making it take weeks, or even months, to sell. Thats at least how it seems to me, I don't craft much and have no high ass craft, but it looks that way, and its why my Gold is still at 48ish.

prices of mets have gone down overall actually (for recipes 1-100). With mets dropping in chests in aby, vw, WoE, and just in general, theirs a fair amount more. But the final crafts either arnt selling much at all, or have dropped in price below the cost of mets. A very small example would be some of the ingots as of late. 1k for an ore (need 4 to make ingot) but ingot sells for 2k. As you get to higher items, that can rly become an issue. Before the Nerf didn't didn't mind to much, but after the Nerf, ppl need to start being a lot more careful or they will find themselves broke quick.

Thats partly what I meant, the mats that drop from Aby and VW are easy, but the items made are almost worthless. The mainly useful crafted gear right now are Cursed/Hexed gear, they are only profitable with HQs, and take a long time to sell. Any NQ synth is a loss of money, and any HQ is rare, and take a long time to be profitable.